Riot: we'll do just that Game: becomes snowbally, burst-oriented, super-quick clownfiesta Boards: https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/027/475/Screen_Shot_2018-10-25_at_11.02.15_AM.png
No, this does not belong in Memes & Games
The thigh guy35 votesIt was litteraly exclusively bruisers and assassins bitching for tanks and adcs to be made irrelevant.
Ragnaveil6 votesMeanwhile mages are still raping assassins up the ass, except for Kha and LB.
Beginning4 votesMeanwhile mages are still raping assassins up the ass, except for Kha and LB.
Mages, strong? I don't know what you're on but the only strong "mages" out there would be Cassiopeia and Galio. As for Karthus, he's strong, yeah, but not played in his actual position for valuable reasons.
AirKingNeo9 votesZoe? Lissandra? Ahri? Malzahar?
KmSneaky5 votesZoe and ahri are more on the assassin side tbh, Liss and Malz are decent, but as for veigar their CDs are too long to have the same impact as characters like 
or 
I'd argue they are among the strongest mages right now, and they have a lot of weaknesses.
Daddy Ants7 votesZoe and ahri are more on the assassin side tbh, Liss and Malz are decent, but as for veigar their CDs are too long to have the same impact as characters like
Ahri and Zoe are not Assassin's.
Kaìju5 votesI can see where Ahri would be similar to an assassin since she has a lot of mobility paired with moderate burst power, but I agree she is more of a kite mage/soft battle mage
Lhuhz2 votesOn past seasons she was considered an assasin
Lhuhz7 votesAhri was considered an assasin on S3, I would say that the line between assasin and mage on Ahri is blurred.
But yeah Zoe is a legit mage and not an assasin.
MasterDClone5 votesand now it is exclusively adc's and tanks bitching for bruisers and assassin's to be made made irrelevant.
WELCOME TO THE CIRCLE JERK OF THE BOARDS
The thigh guy5 votesand now it is exclusively adc's and tanks bitching for bruisers and assassin's to be made made irrelevant.
WELCOME TO THE CIRCLE JERK OF THE BOARDS
Except we aren’t bitching to get them to be irrelevant. We are bitching for our classes to be atleast fucking playable. Picking a tank is basically saying “enjoy the free win (Insert bruiser name here)”
And adc is well. Adc just isn’t.
Janna Me Fiddle3 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hHQTmLLm,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-01-07T16:46:15.816+0000)
It was litteraly exclusively bruisers and assassins bitching for tanks and adcs to be made irrelevant.
I could understand why Bruisers were complaining as Tanks were basically doing everything a Bruiser could do, while being hard to kill, Bruisers wanted tanks damage to go down but their defense to remain in tact, not what they did get with everything being paper and insta-splosion.
The Highest Noon14 votesI've been a part of this game for seven years and I can tell you that it's a regular occurance for Boards to cry for Riot to do something then go wild when Riot actually does it.
PaffWasTaken12 votesThere's a difference between nerfing a champion class and simultaneously nerf the champion class, nerf their itemisation, nerf their lane, buff their counters etc, which they did. The boards asked ADC nerfs because the whole game's outcome was 100% the ADC's fault since it was waaaaaaay too impactful and Riot just moved this responsibility to snowball champions like certain assassins. The boards asked tanks nerf, not because they could tank, but because they could do as much damage as anyone, making bruisers quite useless since they could tank less for sensibly the same damage. What Riot did instead is nerfing the tanks' tankiness through conqueror along with buffing their damage along the way for no reason. If Riot makes bad balance changes by misinterpreting the boards' opinions, blame Riot until they actually make something good, not the boards; what they wanted isn't what happened.
WashyMoney6 votesPartially untrue.
If you were here when Boards asked for ADC nerfs you WOULD know that this is exactly what they wanted.
They wanted ADCs removed from the game. They said ADCs should only be situational picks bot lane, and NOT played in any other lane.
When the Crit changes came to PBE (20% true damg IE, 2800 gold zeal items). People on boards bitched that this was STILL TOO OP. Yes, nerfing a champions runes, base stats, and items & nerfing their facilitators & buffing their counters - still too OP. Completely ignoring shittier build paths, worse item timings, and cost increases.
Riot actually abliged and nerfed it to 15% and 2900 gold, only to realize literally within one patch “what the fuck have we done” and make some quick fixes. Yes ADCs were still picked, but that’s just cause the changes just dropped. If you looked at pro play (adapts quicker than SoloQ) - ADCs were almost removed from bot lane in 8.11. If 8.11 stayed, I doubt ADCs would still be picked bot lane (besides the ones that can build AP, or assassin/bruiser items).
So yeah, I can see why Riot would shy away from listening to the boards for now.
chipndip12 votesPartially untrue.
If you were here when Boards asked for ADC nerfs you WOULD know that this is exactly what they wanted.
They wanted ADCs removed from the game. They said ADCs should only be situational picks bot lane, and NOT played in any other lane.
When the Crit changes came to PBE (20% true damg IE, 2800 gold zeal items). People on boards bitched that this was STILL TOO OP. Yes, nerfing a champions runes, base stats, and items & nerfing their facilitators & buffing their counters - still too OP. Completely ignoring shittier build paths, worse item timings, and cost increases.
Riot actually abliged and nerfed it to 15% and 2900 gold, only to realize literally within one patch “what the fuck have we done” and make some quick fixes. Yes ADCs were still picked, but that’s just cause the changes just dropped. If you looked at pro play (adapts quicker than SoloQ) - ADCs were almost removed from bot lane in 8.11. If 8.11 stayed, I doubt ADCs would still be picked bot lane (besides the ones that can build AP, or assassin/bruiser items).
So yeah, I can see why Riot would shy away from listening to the boards for now.
The boards have this weird thing they do. They complain that Riot doesn't listen to them while giving nothing but bad ideas. When Riot finally caves and listens to them, and the bad ideas bear fruit, they then act like Riot doesn't listen to them and all the consequences of their ideas wouldn't have come to pass if they did.
I'm here for ALL THIS SHIT. The boards will eventually see to it to blame marksmen for the death of JFK or some shit in the next coming months if marksmen return to dictating every game like they used to once the changes roll in. And of course, everyone on the balance team will need to be fired, then flogged.
Abibyama II1 votesI failed my driving test, fucking balance team needs to get fired >:(
Lhuhz3 votesI'm here for ALL THIS SHIT. The boards will eventually see to it to blame marksmen for the death of JFK
It was me, I'm guilty.
Moody P9 votesImplying tanks didn't burst people when they were meta any time in the last 4 years
Zero Skill Tank13 votesRight, this is how a game with 4 tanks looks like
https://clips.twitch.tv/MiniatureHandsomeManateeTF2John
And even IF tanks one-shotting people with 2 abilities like on this clip were more then boards delusion, they NEVER snowball like mad, and don't close the game in minutes. Same applies to marksmen.
Zardo4 votesThey just bursted you down in lane while being unkillable
MasterDClone3 votesinstead of finishing you quickly they dragged out each game to be as unfun for as long as possible now when dealing with bullshit i just have to deal with for 20 min
DoktorKaiser8 votesWhat people mostly asked:
make tanks deal less damage, but make them more tanky
make ADCs less relevant before late game
stop the bot lane clown fiestas, nerf the jungle early ganking pressure
What RIOT did:
actually fixed ADCs
nerfed tanks tankyness, nerfed tank itemization, actually gave them more fucking damage, doubled the available amount of true damage in the game, buffed all tank counters
buffed assassins, their runes and items to the point where ADC can't function as a role and mages are barely hanging in there mostly as supports
buffed the jungle to the point where they decide the entire game, not only bot lane
MasterDClone1 votesbut they tried to nerf the jungle early pressure by nerfing xp but it was a failure.
thought i would mention that the intent was there to nerf jg pressure
Bob the Toastr3 votesThe nerfed XP would've worked pretty well, but they had to fck up the scuttles in the same patch so jungle is as much of a fiesta as it was before.
Thefrostyviking6 votesI mean.....tanks overall arent bad, Alistar, leo and thresh (All use aftershock i think...) are really good right now.
However jungle tanks seem to be gone and toplane has like....Sion and nothing else comes to mind as strong and not very niche.
Much fewer tanks = Much fewer hypercarries hypercarries (only ones kinda good at dealing with tanks) =much fewer early game champs = more action early/midgame = Early picks and burst ones are favored.
Bob the Toastr1 votesI've had some success with Amumu in the jungle. His Q makes for great ganks and he stays relevant in later fights thanks to his ulti. He has decent clear speed too. However, you will not be able to fight the other jungler for the scuttles so you have to give those up.
General Esdeath 1 votesthe fact that 
(
or 
) 
works really blows my mind. He gets the bonus HP but also some sticking power and damage. This shouldn't work.
Thefrostyviking1 votesHealth, damage and sticking power are good traits but he drops resistance almost entirely and doesnt get any powerful steroids like stoneplate with that build.
Of course the need for a stoneplate is debatable when enemy carry might be prone to dying before they get free.
General Esdeath 1 votesNo point in armor when true damage via conqueror exist, better to just get HP or replace shoes with Tabis. Abyssal Mask gives the MR you need, not to mention runes like boneplate and second wind can help with surviving.
Thefrostyviking1 votesThat sorta build lets marksmen who use 
or have a passive like kai sa /ability like kog W just demolish the heathbar though, even moreso with rageblade ontop.
Second wind and boneplating....arent they meant for helping with poking and short fights rather than extended fights?
General Esdeath 1 votesIf you chain your CC it's pretty much just a few pokes between Q and then R
Thefrostyviking1 votesWont need resistances if everyone who would hit you are dead x)
General Esdeath 1 votes "This guy gets it"
Thefrostyviking1 votesOh thats a bit surprising to me, although i dont really jungle well at all.
I figured the early game picks like graves/shaco/lee would demolish him before he had the chance to get going, that or some more DPS favoring picks like Yi/Kindred/jax would melt him while ignoring his durability due to their kits.
Maybe some AP picks running liandry would also go straight through his healthbar as well.
Bob the Toastr1 votesAmumu's clear speed (for multi-monsters at least) sort of makes up for his early game weak fighting ability. You mainly just have to avoid the enemy jungler as best as possible until you get lvl 6 at least.
DPS picks do decent damage to him (especially with true damage), but Amumu's E helps a little with the physical damage and Amumu focuses heavily on his up-front burst combo. If you can chunk enemies low enough with the initial burst, they will run away after that.
One thing I forgot to mention in my other response is that Ravenous Hunter is a very important rune to take on him thanks to his W damage. I've gotten 10k-15k healing in a longer game from that rune.
Thefrostyviking2 votesAh ravenous is a seriously underrated rune, i mean the ultimate hunter is good and all but that healing can seriously add upp very quickly on some champs.
I can appreciate that setup, especially on DPS/frequent poke/waveclear champs.
And you have a point on the multi camp clears, doesnt matter if enemy champ clears either camp 20-30% faster if you take both in the same time they take it.
It might not cover the entire difference over the course of a jungle clear but it does even the field.
AirKingNeo6 voteswell maybe if Gameplay wasn't so pro-mage, we might get posts asking about nerfs to mage given how absurdly broken they are
IP Masquerena1 votesBroken where?
I'll agree with mages being nerfed when AD lose their OP itemization.
Let's look at defensive items for AP and AD:
AP: 
and 
. Banshee has a trash pasive that's 10 times worse than Edge of Night and many already call that item bad, so go figure. So there's 1 decent defensive item mages have, out of 2 total defensive items mages have.
AD: 
. That's 8 items, not including components, as mages can't sit on their components, while AD? 
. Also note that these items are not "situational juggy/tank items bought by ADC/Assassins", if we count those in as well, 
and the list would be too long.
Mages are reliable but have little defensive items while AD are the favorites. Want to nerf an AD item other than Duskblade and Trinity? Prepare for a world of hate
AirKingNeo1 votesNice misrepresentation of items from multiple classes.
IP Masquerena1 votesWell, yea?
They are all AD items that give good offence and defense as well and I stated AD items, not ADC items. No-one's buying these items for the offence but the defense (except Va(a)rus/Kog'maw and the Wit's End and Draven with the BT, but that's an exception), everyone gets those items for the defense they give.
Like it or not, that's the case, AP champs have 2 defensive items while AD dudes have 8, not counting many more that can be abused by them (Frozen Mallet is still on Ez's buy list, while for a while it was used by a lot of ADCs). Yasuo, Zed, Lucian, Kayn, Lee, what not that's AD want to go defensive items? Well, they have BT, Maw, DD, GA as 4 strong items. Yea, noone will buy all 4, but then again, even if they do, they get a stupid amount of defense and don't lose much offense unless they are crit champs, but even then, they can safely go 3 of these 4 after selling boots. All of the 8 items work quite well vs both AP and AD, GA gives armor so it's better vs AD but the 2nd life is good vs both, while after Maw triggers, which more often than not will unless you're against a full AD team, and even then it has some chances to trigger thanks to Smites/mixed damage and such, the Lifeline passive is lifesteal off of all your damage so it doesn't matter what the enemy deals after the passive is triggered.
Vlad and Rumble, 2 AP bruisers go into tank defensive items for a reason, there are no AP defensive items worth a damn except Zhonya, which is already 50% of the AP defensive items.
Any other AP wanting to go defensive? Well, after Zhonya, they either go tank items for little to no benefit but they have no other choice if they want defense, or say "Shaco it" and go more damage and hope they kill faster than they are killed.
Which was my point, you can nerf mages, go ahead, but also nerf AD defensive items. Or give mages more defensive items, afterall, they lost 2 defensive items in Abyss Scepter and GA, so hey, they can get some items as well.
Karfuss6 votesADCs did need kneecapping in all fairness. Being omnipotent and deciding who died from a single rightclick was not okay.
That said, the bruiser itemisation changes that give them free defensive stats while also building AD, alongside Black Cleaver... Completely eradicated tanks from the meta. Even that has infested bot lane, for what chance does a support tank have if even top/jungle tanks struggle against the ludicrous amount of damage that makes resistances futile? If you're not playing Alistar, stop right there and rethink your choices.
Assassins are an odd one. Some assassins I feel are in an alright spot, yet most are completely broken. I play Kha'Zix and even I agree my Q alone should not be taking half your health (or all if fed), nor do I believe I should get a free mobility reset after outputting that amount of damage so easily. Shaco, Fizz? Big EH. Not bad, but definitely not Akali/LeBlanc/Kha'Zix level of absurdity.
Assassins are in the spot they should've been when ADCs were busted, except ADCs are no longer in that position. If an assassin is ahead, yes, you should die to their rotation if you have no defences at all and yes they should have the tools to do so. Although assassins certainly shouldn't be chunking tanks, bruisers, fighters etc so easily. Nor should they be allowed to go 0/4 and still pubstomp you once they've reached a certain item or level 6.
Bob the Toastr3 votesNor should they be allowed to go 0/4 and still pubstomp you once they've reached a certain item
Totally agree with what you said
Daddy Ants5 votesMeanwhile Gosu can't do shit because if he even steps an inch out of line that happens to him.
LTK KoRo1 votespoor gosu, he can wipe his tears with montage of his vayne pentakills during ADCs broken reign
Marshbouy5 votestank supports are op while tanks are weak
:thonk:
Daddy Ants2 votestank supports are op while tanks are weak
:thonk:
Only 1 tank support is OP and that's 
are fine.
PlsBuffMyMain2 votestank supports are op while tanks are weak
:thonk:
Because they have high base damages and aftershock so they can kill a squishy support or adc on an engage with ignite?
Sasogwa5 votesWe never wanted tankiness to suck
What we wanted is tanks to do less damage.
We never wanted adc's to suck (ok maybe some of us cause we hate adcs ^^)
What we wanted is for them to do less damage.
What Riot ALWAYS gives us... is MORE damage. ...
Not only more damage but also less cooldowns, more spammability of damage and crowd control etc. Back in the days oneshots existed but hell they were gated by bigger cooldowns, even on basic abilities. When an assassin/burst mage unleashed his whole combo it became from 5v5 to 4v4 until the assassin/burst mage had some cooldowns back, which took some time. Now it's pretty much spammy as fuck, cause it looks better on montages I guess?
Daddy Ants4 votesNot only more damage but also less cooldowns, more spammability of damage and crowd control etc. Back in the days oneshots existed but hell they were gated by bigger cooldowns, even on basic abilities. When an assassin/burst mage unleashed his whole combo it became from 5v5 to 4v4 until the assassin/burst mage had some cooldowns back, which took some time. Now it's pretty much spammy as fuck, cause it looks better on montages I guess?
CDR is way too accessible.
