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too much armor reduction in this game

Moody P··72 votes·17,582 views

dumb how much armor you can buy and how little it starts to matter unless you get fed and nobody else does

item 3071 - take 24% of your armor out of the equation for all AD champs hitting you item 3147 item 3142 item 3814 take anywhere from 18-54 armor out of the equation item 3036 take 35% of your armor out of the equation item 3033 take 25% of your armor (and 40% of your healing) out of the equation Conqueror - 20% true damage conversion; becomes much stronger the more armor you have (not an OP rune, just worth listing) not even including how many fighters tend to have innate armor reduction or mixed/true damage these days

these things wouldn't be terrible by themselves, but you can stack them; meaning any assassin who's meant to kill squishies can stack most of these items up and suddenly they're able to chew up a bruiser or tank - two groups who are meant to be resilient against them. hell, I pretty commonly run item 3071 item 3036 on juggernauts like Urgot and Illaoi and it's almost disgusting with how someone dedicating most of their build to surviving me can't even come near me after I finish Regards.

If we're not going to reduce the amount of armor reduction in the game, can we at least make it less palatable an option to just stack them up and be able to make anyone your bitch? I'd be totally okay with lowering the total amount of armor you can feasibly get to avoid a hard swing into armor being OP.

99 Comments

D357R0Y3R20 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hAv4mPyk,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-25T13:31:44.041+0000)

item 3147 item 3142 item 3814 take anywhere from 18-54 armor out of the equation

first of all, it depends on lvl

second, it isn't a big deal especially since nobody builds edge of the night

Moody P28 votes

oh yeah i forgot how lethality works, mb. still, by the time you have any of these finished iirc you'll still have most of your lethality.

jocomotion1 votes

When a man speaks the truth and gets downvotes for it. I SHALL TURN THR TIDES.

Crescent Dusk2 votes

{quoted}

first of all, it depends on lvl

second, it isn't a big deal especially since nobody builds edge of the night

lol are you serious? Any assassin going against a CC mage should be getting edge of the night. If you're going against Annie/Lux/Ahri/Zoe and didn't get Edge of the Night, you deserve to die.

DKM Bismarck2 votes

or you could get qss vs any of them because it's better than eon

Ulquiorra01231 votes

Nobody actually builds the item because it isn't needed against those champions xD

Death by Glamour10 votes

unpopular opinion inc

black cleaver is a completely redundant item, darius and garen have %armour pen within their kits other primary toplane users Illaoi Poppy have %HP damage. These can be buffed/nerfed appropriately when tanks are in a strong or weakened state. not to mention that other HP AD damage items now exist

Moody P4 votes

the point of BC is to give otherwise selfish fighters some value to their team.

also, try putting an illaoi with 0 pen up against a tank. i understand the necessity for penetration items, but the amount of it some champs can stack is extremely annoying

Death by Glamour2 votes

why should they bring utility value to there teamfight if they spent the lane shitting on their opponent, the value they bring is the gold lead they earned in lane. that's the point of picking a lane bully afterall

Illaoi will win any 1v1 against a tank without black cleaver

poppy herself is a tank or a bruiser which ever way you build her

Moody P4 votes

illaoi isn't a lane bully just because she beats a tank. she has one of the worst pre-3s in the game and is incredibly mediocre until at least level 6, add that she's very vulnerable to ganks and in higher elo your goal is mostly to stonewall lane close to your side and wait until your power spike. most tanks will actually beat her pre-3 and even after as long as they avoid E

why should they bring utility value to there teamfight if they spent the lane shitting on their opponent,

because any time tanks aren't dog shit they aren't actually all that weak in lane, and we've had it happen more than once where they themselves bully laning phase and then hard scale into the grouping stage

Bob the Toastr1 votes

I wouldn't say she has one of the worse pre-3s. Her entire laning phase is reliant on whether or not you hit your E. So if she's level 2 and hits an E? Great for her. If she misses it? Then she is very weak at that point until she gets her E back.

Moody P2 votes

Landing E at level 2 means literally nothing outside of a little klepto rng. You won't kill the spirit and anyone who contests it will probably win the trade. You don't take W until level 3

Z3Sleeper1 votes

No, it’s absolutely terrible. Illaoi E’s you at level 2? Mess her up. She can’t hit your soul or outdamage you when she only has Q or W to use and her pathetic auto attacks while you have 2 actually independently useful skills.

Bob the Toastr1 votes

I play illaoi lol. Always take W first and E second, and grab their soul near a tentacle. They can't fight you without taking lots of damage.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

I do too. And they can. So long as they themselves avoid the tentacle slams they can easily outtrade her all while reducing the duration of the soul pull.

Death by Glamour1 votes

her issues are with her design and using BC as a crutch isn't the answer...

and the other 3 i mentioned?

Moody P2 votes

illaoi doesn't have issues with her design, it's a balance that she doesn't have everything she needs in her kit from the get go.

garen and darius are the exact audience BC was literally reworked around, how is it redundant?

Death by Glamour1 votes

illaoi doesn't have issues with her design

Her sole purpose is to win lane and push it down to the inhib, that's a design issue

garen and darius are the exact audience BC was literally reworked around,

They don't need it with the armour pen already within kit, if they struggle against tanks buff it and vice versa

how is it redundant?

the amount of armour pen already available to adcs and assasins as you mentioned?

the amount of HP AD items available

they Armour pen within kits

as i said they aren't meant to be teamfight gods or bring anything bar a sub par damage soak and damage dealers, they have to win lane a shut the opposing toplaner down

Z3Sleeper2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hAv4mPyk,comment-id=0001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-25T16:45:41.752+0000)

Her sole purpose is to win lane and push it down to the inhib, that's a design issue

Gotta say this is pretty wrong. An Illaoi attempting to split is a dead Illaoi. She isn’t the 1v5 monster people think she is, she is very susceptible to being outplayed by a ton of champions and 2 people can easily take her down so long as they play smart around her ult. She also sucks at taking towers.

Death by Glamour1 votes

Never said she was any good at it i said it was her only use

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Definitely not true. She does much better as a team fighter than a splitter.

Her sole purpose is ulting into a mob of enemies, typically by flashing.

Death by Glamour1 votes

That is true, in theory

The problem with this is that mostly everyone knows that yiu peel out when she ults or you simply dont fight

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

By your logic if she's no good at her intended design, and you're suggesting she's not 'any good' at her 'only use' then she would have a MUCH lower win-rate. But she's actually a rather successful champion with a solid winrate despite your claims.

Verxint1 votes

She's very effective if you don't try to engage the fight and do it when everyone has all their crap up.

SugeMinPikk1 votes

A lot of champions rely heavily on BC for the CDR, move speed passive, and/or health. Riven, Renekton, and Illaoi being some of them.

(edit) Urgot, Kled, Aatrox, Olaf, J4, Gnar being the others

Death by Glamour1 votes

a simple solution would be to change the build path of one of the other HP AD items to include CDR

most of those already have slows or gapclosers

Daddy Ants7 votes

item 3033 item 3036 are fine.

item 3031 needs to be reverted but the critical damage amplifier lowered to 25 or 30% instead of 50.

Conqueror needs replacing with Old Fervor.

item 3071 needs to be changed so the Armor shred only applies to the player who applies the debuff.

Garen shouldn't have a free black cleaver attached to his E.

AirKingNeo3 votes

why nerf garen and cleaver when cleaver is a weak item and garen isn't even competitively viable?

Shalashalska1 votes

You mean Garen, the highest winrate toplaner for the last 3 patches?

AirKingNeo1 votes

https://www.op.gg/champion/statistics

6th highest winrate

ankoanko192 votes

2nd highest after Sion https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champions/

Daddy Ants2 votes

{quoted}

why nerf garen and cleaver when cleaver is a weak item and garen isn't even competitively viable?

Stop using competitive play as a counter argument to when people suggest nerfs to a champ.

He's not competitively viable but he's an absolute menace in solo Q.

AirKingNeo3 votes

doesn't really explain why you'd nerf cleaver when cleaver is kinda shitty right now

shoe65355 votes

if there wasnt, tanks would be too op. tanks can still withstand a good amount of damage, if they stack armor it's not the itemization that will kill them it's true damage like yi E and camille Q. Lethality champions should be able to one shot people with no armor items or 1 armor item.

Destello Azul4 votes

Imo, item 3071 must reduce flat armor, as item 3091.

My Waifu Vanilla14 votes

That would be a straight buff against anyone not a tank. Zed and Talon already kind of like the item for the CDR. They don't need further incentive to look at it. Also, even if the item shredded armor by say 5 (which btw is probably lower than they would give it) per stack. That's 30 armor shred. That is a straight buff to EVERY squishy champion before level 18 EVEN IF they opt for a defensive item like Zhonya's or GA.

Mokuto Bunshi1 votes

Not only would it hurt squishies, bruisers would have to go the the unemployment office of runeterra... they'd loose their job! Bruisers make tanks easier to deal with or counter. They dont kill them quickly like an assassin vs a ranged character, but they give you an answer.

Mordepool2 votes

Stack health. Armor is useless. Tabis are kinda meh

Bisaknosp2 votes

https://gyazo.com/04ca694695324c4770cb83bb58c19f83

i inted early but after i got enough armor even with black cleaver and lw the riven couldnt even bring me down to 90% hp with her full combo and ignite xDDD (was the malph, full tank)

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

Malphite dude. Malphite is made to counter physical dmg. Only tank shredders can, well, shred him.

Bisaknosp2 votes

ik i still think its hilarious how malph e can do more than 500 dmg later on with 0 ap xd

Weensw2 votes

I have a good idea, lets nerf thornmail. How are you supposed to make players feel good and feel like celebrities if you can't one shot people? Defense stats are toxic so you should nerf them.

Shablagoo1 votes

Magic pen is pretty massive too especially considering how low mr is. In some cases other mages and adc still get down to near true dmg even with there respective mr items. Also Conq isnt in the category of armor reduction.

Nyarlathοtep

That awkward moment when there are only two items that give magic pen. (i wont count the rune since half of the magic dmg dealers cant make use of it)

Shablagoo1 votes

Vel'koz at level 11 has 34.4 magic resist, at level 18 he has 38.5. The two item 3165 item 3020, both give 33 pen in total and that doesnt have to scale thats flat. That means with two items at level 11 Vel is left with 1.4 mr left. Lets say he has item 3102 Thats a big boost at level 18, thats 98.5 mr with banshee. But then lets add void staff to the mix, 40% of vel's total mr is gone so minus 39.4 thats 59.1 left minus 33 is 26.1 left. That is next to nothing his base is more.

Magic pen is equally as bad. The reason they have only two plus void, is because if they had anymore it would be broken. Lethality isnt even that bad the problem is Black clever and lord, the combo alone is massive. But lethality itself isnt bad it scales and for the most part is only a problem if the person is massively ahead, its on the player to utilize it effectively and get ahead.

Nyarlathοtep

And why is that bad? Especially for magic dmg. Magic pen is (for the most part) limited by spells which have cds, and mana costs.

I really dont understand your thinking, those that rely on dealing magic dmg struggle currently. Dealing dmg is difficult because of how their kit works, and how terrible their items are to damage tanks. A dot that deals 1% of their current hp hardly helps. 10% when in combat is a meh increase. A bit low in my opinion but considering some cases (morde) they cant just increase it.

Shablagoo1 votes

Because everyone is currently talking about how high dmg is? And it isnt just exclusive to just ad, magic dmg is high too, remember there are ap assassins too? So some of them benefit from sudden impact, then there are champions like ahri who have mobility and range. Dmg is to high period it isnt just ad,which is what I am trying to say.

Nyarlathοtep

You forgot something. The reason why dmg is so high is because resistances got lowered. Throughout the last patches ap items got their dmg lowered (with the exception of dcap, rylais, and items that built out of codex by a meager 5) in exchange of cdr and mana.

Fear the Kayn1 votes

I disagree. Late game armor should be able to be shred easier because item 3047 is EXTREMELY strong early game. Armor is stronger early and armor shred is stronger late.

Weensw5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fear the Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hAv4mPyk,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2018-08-26T01:08:56.283+0000)

I disagree. Late game armor should be able to be shred easier because item 3047 is EXTREMELY strong early game. Armor is stronger early and armor shred is stronger late.

Totally agree with you, on top of that, I think a late game tank should be killed as fast as an Ashe being blown up by Eve in melee range.

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