Xin zhao is a little overtuned

RankOneUganda·Nov 6, 2017·21 votes·3,844 views

this champion was a statball pre rework that died too fast from ranged damage. now he is a bursty stat ball that has anti range mechanics

I just thing thing his base stats or his W damage needs to be hit a little. lane xin zhao is a mini game. his long trades aren't weak so why are his short trades this strong with W scaling this hard even early game.

it took like what 2 patches for him to hit #1 jungler winrate. I just think hes a little overbearing at statbally and doesn't have as much of a window of weakness as say jax after using his E

they just needed to remove some of his stickiness so you can actually outplay him in a 1v1 while buffing his team fight.

I mean they did the latter. what about the former? we gonna ignore that? you can't do that

28 Comments

NevrankroatonNov 6, 20174 votes

People really struggle to adjust to him tho, many ADC and mage like throw the hell out of their burst on a xin who popped his R, it is VERY VERY often. He is still as kitable as ever, he just have some strong survivability tool and overall he is someone who ask better team coordination than just "He suck in TF".

I don't know if he is too strong but I would say that he also has a meta that favor him, it won't get better with the new runes.

BlåbæretNov 6, 20174 votes

He's overpowered. Needs nerfs asap.

Emelie CauchemarNov 6, 20173 votes

Werent all of you calling him garbage like 3 weeks ago?

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

NoobtacticalNov 6, 20172 votes

I was a Xin Main in jungle up until the update. I only just limped into silver, but his Jungle performance has gotten worse and overall he is far less durable. If you lay out the old Xin and new Xin side by side he's gained some burst but lost way more tank / dueling potential.

I never laned him and the folks that lane him seem to like him and the bit of range he got with his W.

In the jungle though I've given up on him and am looking for a new champ that fits the style.

His stickiness is down also, the slow now I think is .5 seconds and I believe used to be 2 seconds.

MimrNov 6, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I was a Xin Main in jungle up until the update. I only just limped into silver, but his Jungle performance has gotten worse and overall he is far less durable. If you lay out the old Xin and new Xin side by side he's gained some burst but lost way more tank / dueling potential.

I never laned him and the folks that lane him seem to like him and the bit of range he got with his W.

In the jungle though I've given up on him and am looking for a new champ that fits the style.

His stickiness is down also, the slow now I think is .5 seconds and I believe used to be 2 seconds.

Not true. His damage was moved from Q to W and his passive. His slow was actually extended from 1.5 to 2.5 seconds (E+W landed in succession), but to get that extra power he now has to land a skillshot. His big powerspike was also moved from early to midgame. His big spikes are now when he gets Warrior and Triforce itemwise and between level 9-13 levelwise. After that he slowly transitions from assassin to vanguard as you get more levels and defensive items and teams group up. Warrior enchant is scarily good on him and has far surpassed Bloodrazor because Xin now has a lot more use for raw AD.

Only thing that I kinda dislike is that his AS steroid is now locked behind using E's dash, this forces you to blow your gapcloser if you want to deal damage.

MalchaNov 6, 20172 votes

The loss of raw defensive stats is actually a problem if people play around him properly. He's squishier, outright. His dueling is absolutely worse at 6. No question. His pushing is also worse because you need minions for atk speed buffs. There were definitely some tradeoffs for his current power. Personally, I still prefer the old Xin, being a stronger duelist was a part of him I valued more than being able to play like an assassin. It's not any healthier of a play pattern imo. I said this the moment the kit was announced and it seems to be absolutely true.

His Q damage is in the dumpster and is pure utility, not to mention has lost base scaling. The numbers on his W are decent, but to be honest, I don't even like relying on that skill for additional damage.

Trolling with new Xin ult is fun and it definitely gives him a ton of leeway. However once people adjust and actually play smart, he's not as strong as people think. People for some reason just blow skills at ult, even though it's up and has been up. I main Xin and I can't tell you how many times I've had an ADC just stand outside the circle shooting, HEARING THE PINGS, and making any adjustments. APs have done the same thing, it's dumb, they just ignore how the skill works and cry that it's too op.

It's like watching someone try and shoot through Windwall.

The strength of ADCs and the nature of his kit are big part of his current strength. The censer nerfs also did a lot for him. I would honestly prefer them centering his strength more sustain/AA than playing him like rengar/kha with a more busted ult.

NoobtacticalNov 6, 20171 votes

Agreed with Malcha. I'm looking for a new champ myself that has the old xin playstyle. Any recommendations? Jax is close, but i used to play him a ton and would like another option. Plus Jax needs a lot of gold.

MalchaNov 6, 20171 votes

I've been messing around with Kayle and Yi. No one really has quite the same feel though honestly. I think really is about as close as it gets.

NoobtacticalNov 6, 20171 votes

Kayle and Yi were both on my list to try, along with Udyr. I've tried Shyvana and Vi but just not feeling it on them though.

I'm gonna miss playing Xin, something about him I always felt cool with the sound effects and all. When I was ranking up I really felt like I could impact the game with him.

NoobtacticalNov 6, 20172 votes

I missed that on the slow being split into 2 spots.

From a dueling standpoint. His previously guaranteed crit damage is about equivalent to his new W, except was applied more frequently and there was no chance of a miss. If you miss a W you might as well go home (and for a lowbie silver like me it happens :( ).

He's missing the armor shred from his passive.

His R no longer has the stun component (which was really nice if you needed it in a duel) and of course the guaranteed magic res and armor buff.

His new R is fun to use if you can block some hits, it saved me a few times usually when I'm fleeing. But all those times that you are in tight quarters (in jungle) and it knocks enemies into a wall (they stay in the circle), or they use a gap closer to re-jump you it's pretty meh. I would take the guaranteed buff to MR and Armor all day.

In riots update notes they said he was too tanky and were tuning him down on that front.

His 1:1 damage is a weaker overall and he gained a bit of AOE and range on his W. But he is nowhere near the top tier duelist he was before. He's another AD bursty champ.

The attack speed buff on his E is clunky for a jungler. You want that AS buff you gank to apply pressure to the lane and force a run, but if you do then you can't close the gap without a flash.

Overall I think his laning went up (from what folks say, I don't lane him) and his jungling went down.

It's funny his lore is about being an undefeated arena gladiator (top tier duelist), which his old build reflected, but now he's perimeter flanker and really a mid tier duelist.

xxxDogmanxxxNov 10, 20171 votes

Nope, E = 0.5 second slow, W = 1.5 second slow. E+W is a 2 second slow, not 2.5 seconds. He used to have a sure 2 second slow, now he has a sure 0.5 second slow with the other 1.5 seconds being a skill shot.

Misinformation.

Big Black CrocNov 6, 20171 votes

In the jungle though I've given up on him and am looking for a new champ that fits the style.

MonkeyKing MasterYi JarvanIV Tryndamere

NoobtacticalNov 6, 20171 votes

thx for the suggestions

DaNinadNov 7, 20171 votes

jax is also pretty close to the old duelist xin and also has pretty good base damage early on

NTrumpWeTrustNov 6, 20172 votes

He falls off pretty hard. Seems fine.

PennsNov 6, 20171 votes

just a little? lel

Painted CeltNov 6, 20171 votes

According to the data on statistics sites like champion.gg, yeah, he's overpowered right now.
In the jungle, he starts off at nearly 60% winrate and then "falls off" to 52% winrate after 40+ minutes late-game... As a top-laner, he stays 54-55% winrate in both early and late-game, dipping a bit only during mid-game. Part of it is almost definitely the current meta though. He was given a counter-ranged tool, and melee damage threats are kind of rare right now, but he'll always be up against at least one marksman. As a fighter, he can duel melee tanks, so he lacks common counters in the meta.

MimrNov 6, 20171 votes

In a meta where crit ADCs are The One Class To Rule Them All it's not a surprise that a champion who can middle-finger them for a few seconds in a fight wins a lot of games. I'd wait for a meta shift before applying nerfs.

FeathermaneNov 6, 20171 votes

Urgot tier? Nah.

NoobtacticalNov 6, 20171 votes

What's the best site to a champ's older skills or prior patch notes. I use the LOL wikia but it seems glitchy like at home it only showed a few prior updates and in the library it doesn't show the names of some of the on hit effects and such.

muted team chatNov 6, 20171 votes

He has been my ban choice nonstop since last patch. It was obvious who would be #1 jungler from op.gg

Flawless FetusNov 6, 20171 votes

You're right. Lol. He got reworked, then I jungled him to diamond. I don't jungle much, he's just dumb. Surprisingly, he's not that popular of a ban or a pick. Lol. He is dumb, though.

NoobtacticalNov 7, 20171 votes

meh, don't see any solo queue games (where you are diamond) in your history on him, and your 3-2 with him in flex (where you are plat) and we all know flex is about .... your team, not the individual champs

Flawless FetusNov 7, 20171 votes

Right. I hit diamond in solo duo, with well over a 60% wr (on xin, my overal wr is right around 50). Lol. Then I began playing flex with my silver friends bc I had nothing better to do. Lol.

spirit cookingNov 6, 20171 votes

Old Xins ult was so useless after every champ had mobility added. Its good he got something better.

RankOneUgandaNov 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Old Xins ult was so useless after every champ had mobility added. Its good he got something better.

am good with that. you just cant leave him this sticky at the same time to stateball melees

nGioNov 7, 20171 votes

{quoted} lane xin zhao is a mini game. his long trades aren't weak so why are his short trades this strong with W scaling this hard even early game.

He has 1% pick rate top lane, and is statistically in the 'below average' tier on metasrc. He has a negative win percentage top lane to Nasus, Riven, Galio, Darius, GP, Mao, Swain, Olaf, Vlad, Camille, Rumble, Trynd, Shen, Akali, among many others, and his highest win percentage top is against Tahm....

it took like what 2 patches for him to hit #1 jungler winrate. I just think hes a little overbearing at statbally and doesn't have as much of a window of weakness as say jax after using his E

Well this is just bullshit. His jungle win rate is below Twitch, Udyr, Skarner, Trundle, Mundo, and Rammus, to name a few. If he's the '#1 jungler winrate', then what are they?

Honestly man, this just sounds like rage. You tried to drop "top lane too strong" and "#1 jungler" when we have too many tools to use nowadays, and none of them come close to supporting what you're saying.

http://www.metasrc.com/all/5v5/current/tierlist?ranks=all Has him a few spots beneath WW using ranked statistical game play, which sounds about right. Like WW, he has strengths, weaknesses, isn't too strong, and isn't too weak. WW and Xin are 2 of the most successful reworks we've seen lately. Going after Xin feels like a 'I ran out of shit to bitch about' post.