3200 is INSANE for the new steraks gage

RankOneUganda·Oct 10, 2017·138 votes·18,466 views

so you're buffing a shit tier item. to potentially useful in some situations. increasing hp by 50. increasing base ad by 20%. but replacing shield pop with tenacity

and for that. you're increasing the price tag by a whopping 600. have you lost your mind?. first off only black cleaver and triforce champs are going to buy this. bruisers to be more specific. these items are both 3k. now this shit is going to cost to us more than a shiv and IE for ad carries

3200 is absurd. 2800 or 2900 would have been more reasonable.

165 Comments

Late For TeaOct 10, 201793 votes

If this was meant for ADCs it would cost 2600g. No wonder ADCs are "late" game carries, top lane is still sitting on 3-4 items by the time they are full build.

SkorchOct 10, 20172 votes

Um arent tank items even cheaper than ADC items. The only expensive item groups being Mages and Bruisers.

AlienPrimateOct 10, 201732 votes

Most of the tank items cost around 2900g. The crit and armor pen items all cost 2600g. The only items cheaper than crit/attack speed items are support items and ADC's generally have the most gold as it is. This is the complaint most people have with ADC items right now. They can cap their crit chance and attack speed for 7800g, effectively tripling their damage. They then get a couple expensive items and melt everything. I'm personally indifferent on the topic, but that is the argument.

SkorchOct 10, 20172 votes

"All cost 2600g" Ignoring the fact that ADCs ALSO have some crazy expensive items

AlienPrimateOct 10, 201713 votes

Did you not read the entire thing? I said attack speed/crit items and penetration items. item 3094 item 3085 item 3087 item 3046 item 3036 item 3033 are all 2600g. "They then get a couple expensive items and melt everything." Every single adc build I have seen has at least 2 of the listed items and a lot of them have up to 4 of them. If the ADC builds item 3006 item 3031 item 3072 the average cost per item is 2667 gold. If a tank builds item 3001 item 3065 item 3068 item 3075 item 3083 item 3111 the average cost is 2591 gold. This is only after the absurdly high priced bloodthirster brought the average up considerably. Go 5 item average and you get 2460 per item for ADC and 2540 per item for tanks. That is exactly the problem. How often do you actually get full build? I do in maybe 1 out of 7 games. Another thing to consider is cs and kills. On average, a tank probably has 5 kills and 250 cs in a long game while an adc has 15 kills and 400 cs. Their 5 item build is cheaper and they get gold way faster.

InertiàOct 10, 201743 votes

This is also why Ez is garbage and unplayable botlane right now, his 2 core items are way more expensive than shiv+ie+zeal and he needs too much to stack muramana. Make ez great again, nerf crit item cost.

BadPiriPiriOct 10, 20174 votes

they will buff manamune

aspects1Oct 11, 20172 votes

ez is viable in the jungle it was even picked in lcs

OHminusOct 11, 201713 votes

garbage and unplayable botlane

BOTLANE

GGLineaROct 11, 20174 votes

crit is way too cheap for how powerful it is right now.

KloqdqOct 10, 201739 votes

Rather increase Crit items costs since they are criminally cheap but I got your point

RiotNot SurrenderingOct 10, 201738 votes

20% base AD equates to roughly between 20-30 AD when you purchase this item (~800 gold) (for the characters that buy it) who also have the highest base AD growth in the game (usually between 4-5 per level). The shield decay portion after 0.75s is also larger than it looks due to the amount of times your shield would previously get instantly popped. We've found it to be pretty performant in playtests and also adding more components to the build path makes it more performant while you're on the way to the item.

SegiusOct 10, 20172 votes

Still, it is tank item, arent defensive items supposed to be cheaper?

UnboundHadesOct 10, 201732 votes

juggernaut item to be exact

What Is SmiteOct 11, 20172 votes

The main users of this item will be: Mordekaiser Yorick Darius Illaoi Skarner and to a lesser degree Trundle

NavyDiveaOct 12, 20172 votes

Irelia

The Yetii RiderOct 10, 20175 votes

Thanks for helping out juggernauts.

What about divers? Do divers get their own items, or are we just saying "fuck it"?

AirKingNeoOct 10, 20173 votes

Not exactly help. The gold hike makes it net 0.

The Yetii RiderOct 10, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Not exactly help. The gold hike makes it net 0.

That's stupid. They added tenacity to an item that had none. For a class that has extreme damage and a weakness of being peeled. Tenacity is a priceless benefit on juggernauts. Of course this is a buff.

SkiasOct 10, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Trading Stance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jPg9JAtR,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2017-10-10T21:48:29.944+0000)

20% base AD equates to roughly between 20-30 AD when you purchase this item (~800 gold) (for the characters that buy it) who also have the highest base AD growth in the game (usually between 4-5 per level). The shield decay portion after 0.75s is also larger than it looks due to the amount of times your shield would previously get instantly popped. We've found it to be pretty performant in playtests and also adding more components to the build path makes it more performant while you're on the way to the item.

I'd never be able to afford it in an average game. The price is far too high and it's not good enough for a 1st or 2nd purchase.

RiotNot SurrenderingOct 10, 201718 votes

It's almost the same price as Black Cleaver and gives more offensive stats on the way.

The Yetii RiderOct 11, 201712 votes

[{quoted}](name=Trading Stance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jPg9JAtR,comment-id=001300020000,timestamp=2017-10-10T22:52:16.212+0000)

It's almost the same price as Black Cleaver and gives more offensive stats on the way.

Going to loudly disagree with you here. The Black Cleaver gives 20% cooldown reduction, which is a significant amount of offensive power. Like it's actually crazy disgusting how much damage a juggernaut or diver can get from 20% CDR.

junglerboy16Oct 11, 20177 votes

He means the build path gives significantly more offensive stats than cleaver, which is just 15 AD, 10% CDR and 400 health until finished.

Meanwhile component Sterak's now gives 40 AD and 350-450 health, on top of having a much lower combine cost.

Basically it comes down to whether you value 25 AD or 10% CDR more offensively speaking.

Electro522Oct 11, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Basically it comes down to whether you value 25 AD or 10% CDR more offensively speaking.

Which is a good thing. Build diversity folks!

RootloOct 11, 20172 votes

Yeah but the Armor shred and move speed bonus on BC is way to good to justify getting a steraks over it ever. They are just going to buff a useless item into an over priced useless item. IT wont affect the game in anyway so idk why people are complaining lol.

SkiasOct 12, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Trading Stance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jPg9JAtR,comment-id=001300020000,timestamp=2017-10-10T22:52:16.212+0000)

It's almost the same price as Black Cleaver and gives more offensive stats on the way.

Maybe it just feels crappy to build. Kindlegem and Phage is super good, while Jaurim's Fist still doesn't feel that impressive. To be fair though, Phage is busted good. I'd almost rather Fist give no scaling and have a mini Sterak's shield or something. I'm not sure how it is offensively better than an item that gives movement speed, shred, health and damage.

Black Cleaver is just worlds better than Sterak's into just about every match up top lane.

SlythionOct 10, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Trading Stance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jPg9JAtR,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2017-10-10T21:48:29.944+0000)

20% base AD equates to roughly between 20-30 AD when you purchase this item (~800 gold) (for the characters that buy it) who also have the highest base AD growth in the game (usually between 4-5 per level). The shield decay portion after 0.75s is also larger than it looks due to the amount of times your shield would previously get instantly popped. We've found it to be pretty performant in playtests and also adding more components to the build path makes it more performant while you're on the way to the item.

You're probably gonna get a lot of hate cuz the group mentality has already hit, but I'm willing to at least see how the item feels and performs in the preseason before calling for changes. This is especially because we don't know how runes, champion adjustments, and other preseason changes are going to effect eachother either.

All in all, thanks for explaining the item a little better

SalsonOct 10, 201733 votes

Your reasoning isn't wrong, but you're looking at it the wrong way.

Adc/Crit items are too cheap, stuff like new Sterak or Luden is fine.

DragonSheaOct 10, 201724 votes

1200g worth of HP. Yorick with 57 AD + 5 per lv x 1.5 Ad is worth 2485 AD worth of gold, that's 71 AD and 113.6 (1.8 Base) AD after shield proc.

Combined that is 3685 gold worth of stats at Lv 18 which is 115.156% gold efficiently at lv 18 and it breaks even at Lv 14, Considering that Sterak's is meant to be build with some HP beforehand. I'd say that some INSANE power you get in the late game. So unless You break even at around Lv 14 to 16 or at least have enough build enough HP to back up the shield proc. Sterak's is a waste of an item.

Sterak's Cost is reasonable due to percentage Base AD bonus and Melee only cap(Poor Urgot :( ) Because most Jugs have around 1200 extra HP and that translates to 900 HP. But I swear once preseason rolls in, the bonus base AD and runes is gonna make it godly.

Also, ADC' are fucking busted so they are not worth comparing because they are too strong. And The HP shield is still there, the tenacity is added not replacing it.

RankOneUgandaOct 10, 20175 votes

{quoted}

1200g worth of HP. Yorick with 57 AD + 5 per lv x 1.5 Ad is worth 2485 AD worth of gold, that's 71 AD and 113.6 (1.8 Base) AD after shield proc.

Combined that is 3685 gold worth of stats at Lv 18 which is 115.156% gold efficiently at lv 18 and it breaks even at Lv 14, Considering that Sterak's is meant to be build with some HP beforehand. I'd say that some INSANE power you get in the late game. So unless You break even at around Lv 14 to 16 or at least have enough build enough HP to back up the shield proc. Sterak's is a waste of an item.

Sterak's Cost is reasonable due to percentage Base AD bonus and Melee only cap(Poor Urgot :( ) Because most Jugs have around 1200 extra HP and that translates to 900 HP. But I swear once preseason rolls in, the bonus base AD and runes is gonna make it godly.

Also, ADC' are fucking busted so they are not worth comparing because they are too strong. And The HP shield is still there, the tenacity is added not replacing it.

But an IE with stacked zeal items has even higher gold value

this is pointless. Yorick has much higher ad than most champions. and that is level 18. you buy this item for mid game power spike. not every game goes to these perfect measurements of yours

DragonSheaOct 10, 20176 votes

{quoted}

But an IE with stacked zeal items has even higher gold value

this is pointless. Yorick has much higher ad than most champions. and that is level 18. you buy this item for mid game power spike. not every game goes to these perfect measurements of yours

Sounds like a rant to me, look I am just stating the facts and that Crit right now is utterly busted. ADC's are meant to have more gold than other champs in general and their items should cost around 3300+

Also you haven't really been reading my post have you? I said that:

1: ADC items and ADC themselves are too busted to compare too because their items are too powerful and cheap. Saying that Zeal + IE is strong is obvious because like I said. ADC is OP.

2: I Said that Sterak's would most likely break even at 14 to 16 and it doesn't reach around 95% cost efficiently or so It's worthless on the champ.

3: It's league for fucks sake. NOTHING is gonna pan out perfectly every time, and I was talking in regards to optimal conditions I.E when you are doing good or ahead.

4: Sterak's new price tag is fine, the problem is ADC items been too powerful and cheap(god how many times have I repeated that?) So instead of complaint about Streak's, get your facts straight. Steaks is getting buffed and as much as I'd love to see it remaining at 2600 G's to spite ADC's It's them that needs to be brought down to manageable levels, not buffing everything to match them and cause hell for balancing.

5: lastly, speaking of fact's:

{quoted}

so you're buffing a shit tier item. to potentially useful in some situations. increasing hp by 50. increasing base ad by 20%. but replacing shield pop with tenacity

and for that. you're increasing the price tag by a whopping 600. have you lost your mind?. first off only black cleaver and triforce champs are going to buy this. bruisers to be more specific. these items are both 3k. now this shit is going to cost to us more than a shiv and IE for ad carries

3200 is absurd. 2800 or 2900 would have been more reasonable.

The Shield is staying, it's getting tenacity as well for 8 second size Hell it doesn't decay until 0.75 seconds.

So Basically I am getting the impressing you are just making this thread to rant about ADC's like everyone else, but you are using a poor example by using the new Sterak. Sterak is gonna be good for bruisers, especially the Uber juggs like Darius, Illaoi, Morde And Yorick. Or tanky divers like Irelia and Renekton.

Sexy Jack RabbitOct 10, 201719 votes

Yeah I agree. Like I get Camille likes expensive things but her 3 core items cost her over 9 grand now. It's a little fucked tbh.

KaìjuOct 10, 201710 votes

To be fair Camille isn't really allowed to be strong because her kit is so loaded. Iirc during her testing one of the play testers was either a high elo player or a pro and he had advised they not release her as is, because she was a monster by design. However that doesn't also justify nerfing her both directly and in build and she should get some help.

Sexy Jack RabbitOct 10, 201711 votes

She wasn't a monster by design. She was just disgustingly, disgustingly, disgustingly unbalanced. The pro-player advised not releasing her as is because she was horrifically over-tuned not because her kit was so loaded.

To this day not one part of her kit has been removed. Also since a fuck tonne of justified nerfs and 1 or 2 adjustments she's in a really balanced place now.

She's even still quite strong actually so I don't know what you mean by 'she's not allowed to be'. She averages roughly a 49% win-rate depending on which site you look at and after a few games on her your average player will be sporting about a 55% win-rate on her, which doesn't indicate a weak champion any means.

If what you meant to say was that Camille isn't allowed to be overtuned, then yeah sure you're right. But that mentality goes for any champion.

Edit: The fuck did I get downvoted for lmao.

InfernapeOct 10, 20176 votes

Well they did remove the heal on her W from non champions.

Automated RivenOct 10, 20174 votes

She lost a shit ton of healing in lane. Invisible power on her ulti. But ya nothing was removed.

Sexy Jack RabbitOct 10, 20173 votes

Frankly it was necessary as much as it hurt. She was terrifyingly overtuned.

ModCaptainMårvelousOct 10, 201716 votes

Just another case of Riot overvaluing things.

It's funny that they think tenacity is so valuable that it needs like a 500 increase. It's as if they don't even know that tenacity is a dead stat with how many knock-ups/knockbacks there are.

DragonSheaOct 10, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Just another case of Riot overvaluing things.

It's funny that they think tenacity is so valuable that it needs like a 500 increase. It's as if they don't even know that tenacity is a dead stat with how many knock-ups/knockbacks there are.

I don't have an issue with the item getting a 600 g increase. But Tenacity not blocking displacement. Yeah that is fucking bad. If it did Tenacity would be beasting.

ModCaptainMårvelousOct 10, 20174 votes

Well I mean the 600g increase is part of the issue, but I relate it back to Riot's problem of overvaluing or undervaluing things.

Take Ornn, for example. Riot put him in that state because of ALL THESE NEW MECHANICS (Brittle, Shopping in lane, etc) that they thought he'd be balanced even with all his clunky junk. He wasn't, because Riot put way too much value into these mechanics and effects. Comparatively, Riot kind of undervalued how strong Ivern's support itemization would be in the jungle and made him way stronger than he should have been.

Yes, relative power level is hard to get at a glance but Riot has a continued track record of making these same mistakes on the same problems over. And over.

Darkdemon653Oct 10, 20179 votes

Assuming it has the strength of a 3200g item, this is a good thing. One of the issues tanks and TDPS have is their items cost nothing. This means they spike in strength in the mid game, where they're already strong, but then fall off heavily late game, where they're already weak.

Critmaster GarenOct 10, 201711 votes

{quoted}

Assuming it has the strength of a 3200g item, this is a good thing. One of the issues tanks and TDPS have is their items cost nothing. This means they spike in strength in the mid game, where they're already strong, but then fall off heavily late game, where they're already weak.

i think op is critisizing that steraks is too weak of an item for its price right now. and the proportion of the stat increase to the gold increase makes it a bigger buy, but not a buff in stat efficiency.

especially compared to zeal items which are basically 200g to 300g too cheap.

to which i have to say, riot axes came into a thread a couple days ago and confirmed, that the tenacity on steraks gages shield is actually going to stack additive with merc treads. which is unusual for tenacity to stack like that.

this means merc treads + steraks will get you windows of 60% tenacity. so well have to see how the changes turn out.

though zeal items definitely need to get hit with a cost increase.

TheHappyReaperzOct 10, 20179 votes

Health has a standard gold cost of 2.67 per 1 point of Hp. The total gold value would be ~134, which means you are getting +20% base AD and Tenacity on the popped form, for 466 g. That seems pretty worth it to me.

XDDDOct 10, 20177 votes

Please stop. Bruisers are not allowed to have cheap things. If we were, then we could actually play the game and we can't have that can we.

AirKingNeoOct 10, 20179 votes

item 3071 item 3748 item 3053

9700 gold.

CatastrophicOct 10, 20176 votes

Yea I was so excited for the buffs cause I play GP and I open surrenderat20 see the price increase and it instantly pulls it back to trash tier.

KairoptraOct 10, 20174 votes

Not that it has to do with anything, but you forgot something: it’s now melee-only. Again, it doesn’t really matter in terms of your argument, but I thought I’d just throw that out there ;)

DragonSheaOct 11, 20174 votes

Yorick + item 3078 + item 3053 + Q = A shovel that will knock your ass 6 feet under.