Grading the balance team on their Final Trial: This Preseason

AirKingNeo··6 votes·715 views

If you remember this post, you will notice how much I took stupidity said from Rioter balance people just to display how lacking they are at their job. From "Supports need to be broken to be popular", "Sterak's is just as good as Black Cleaver", to "Cho'Gath isn't broken."

Note this at the end:

The balance team has worked on the game for over 4 years now. The gloves are off, and there's no excuses left. They couldn't or refused to balance season 7. Now the game is in total chaos from a lack of checking numbers, despite apparently working on preseason instead of fixing the remaining season 7. I give them until the season officially begins to solve this chaos, and everything they refuses to fix in season 7 that still remains. If they cannot reach, "a state of the game where no class(es) are ungodly overpowered in comparison to another, splitpushing is a viable tactic and not negated by taking Baron, solo kills are meaningful, teamwide snowballing isn't as high as it currently is, no class(es) or items invalidate another class." by half way minimum, then they have failed.

And here's Riot's report card:

No Class(es) being ungodly broken compared to another: F Splitpushing is a viable tactic: F Solo kills are meaningful: D- Teamwide Snowballing Reduction: F No classes invalidate another: F No items invalidate a class: F

Considering Riot said they weren't going to balance the rest of season 7 due to preseason preparation, they needed a C average to pass. They failed considerably. Remember how they made a patch, 7.24b, that would supposedly fix top lane? Look at top lane right now. Has it changed at all?

Thing is, you can't buff bruisers to be better in this environment. Bruisers operate on moderate defenses and moderate melee damage. If damage gets too far jacked up, then they can't survive. If defenses get too far jacked up, they can't deal damage. They're also melee, so if you jack up CC, they can't really do anything. Shocker to absolutely no one, if you buff how good tanks are with low item costs and powerful keystones and make supports better, bruisers can't deal damage. When you allow supports to buff ADC damage and ADC items are too cheap, they die too quickly. When you tack on too much CC, melee champions tend to suck. Even if you tried buffing bruisers with better scaling base stats, it just means mid lane suffers from lacking the same powercreep, and then the objectives on the map would be too weak due to the same lack of powercreep.

There are numerous ways to fix these issues too. It isn't even that anything to fix this gets stuck on the PBE or anything; they simply are unaware or don't give a shit. Instead, we get things like Riven and Yasuo buffs because they aren't good for the exact same reason every bruiser/skirmisher isn't good. We all know it's biased; There's a Riven main and a Yasuo main on the balance team, but, unsurprisingly, there are zero actual bruiser players on the balance team.

I could name a fairly decent changelist to fix a majority of this. Doesn't matter. Balance team has made it clear they don't listen to suggestions or feedback for a long time. Back in seasons 1 and 2, you could complain about something on the Forums and Morello or Guinsoo would come into your thread and actually discuss. Sure, you could argue that the Gameplay Boards now are very circlejerky and tend to be, overall, not so smart. What if that wasn't the case? There would be no excuse to not communicate. You could argue Meddler's occasional gameplay thoughts foster discussion, but when he mentioned things like buffing Tryndamere and Yi you have to think, "Why is he talking about poor designs like Tryndamere and Yi being buffed while top lane is still bleeding?" It would be much more effective had he bring up discussion about the Rune system, since bruisers have 0 dedicated keystones while ADCs have 3, despite bruisers having twice the number of champions. Or discussion about certain runes being so much better than their competitors, or some runes just sucking.

24 Comments

chipndip16 votes

Yeah, kinda calling bs on this thread...especially that "report card" part.

AirKingNeo1 votes

What, did you not click the link? Or read my quote?

They have failed the goal I set them. The very goal of improving the game.

Very confused what your point is.

Zero Skill Tank3 votes

The point is that a) Riot has no obligation to follow goals YOU set them and b) your 'card' is downright retarded, i.e. you gave them 'F' for splitpushing, meanwhile several of top winrate toplaners are DEDICATED splitpushers.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Actually are they obligated. The goals I set are the pillars of balance and the issues we currently face.

Do you know how the best top laners are? Maokai, Jayce, Teemo, Ornn, Olaf (comet abuse), Illaoi (klepto + e abuse), Akali, Pantheon, and Rengar (not sure on that). I see tanks, poke spam, and Illaoi. Splitpushing hasn't been made more viable either. Have tanks been nerfed to not auto waveclear? Has Baron Recall been nerfed so objective punishment exists? Clearly, you never read the initial post.

Ahristocats4 votes

love how 1 min after ur thread u got downvoted, as if they can read that fast but then i might be the only one who needs 3 min to read a thread

anyway let me tell you something about me

did you know that i used to be a toplane main?

https://i.gyazo.com/8b769cd88bf7c12e6a4046e9b4a3a064.png

the good old time, when i got to diamond 1 for the first time playing ONLY toplane, except if i was forced to go somewhere else with old selection playing XinZhao (before nerfs)Shen Darius Jayce Renekton JarvanIV Jax and much more champions that i couldn't take in the screenshot due to size problem

but today?

i'm an adc/support main fuck toplane, that role that brings 0 impact on the game, that role made for braindead tanks like ornn, role that is decided by the jungler

after 2013 i left the game to play dota2, i came back in jully 2016 and i started to play toplane oh boy, it was like an other dimension

the toplane i knew was no longer the same, i almost couldn't move in any teamfights i played with darius, in 2013 you could 2v1 the jungler if he tried to gank in mid game because he was 2 lvls behind you now the jungler is on the same lvl you can't do shit and get destroyed i'm forced to take teleport for some reasons and this summoner spell is still not being nerfed, i hate toplane more than anything else

https://i.gyazo.com/ce44fbac726c0998d2bc7a75a817a5d9.png

this is one game of today and listen closely at the bullshit ornn got ganked like twice, he was at one point 1/2 i think and aatrox was ahead of one level AND ORNN SOLO KILLED HIM IN LANE IN 1V1 a diamond 5 ornn player THAT NEVER PLAYED ORNN solo killed a diamond 2 AATROX MAIN WTF, with only ninja tabi and bramble vest

just become an adc main like me and play Vayne Caitlyn Jhin Mordekaiser

ShiniXII1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h4vFQRxe,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-12-31T22:19:42.298+0000)

love how 1 min after ur thread u got downvoted, as if they can read that fast but then i might be the only one who needs 3 min to read a thread

anyway let me tell you something about me

did you know that i used to be a toplane main?

https://i.gyazo.com/8b769cd88bf7c12e6a4046e9b4a3a064.png

the good old time, when i got to diamond 1 for the first time playing ONLY toplane, except if i was forced to go somewhere else with old selection playing XinZhao (before nerfs)Shen Darius Jayce Renekton JarvanIV Jax and much more champions that i couldn't take in the screenshot due to size problem

but today?

i'm an adc/support main fuck toplane, that role that brings 0 impact on the game, that role made for braindead tanks like ornn, role that is decided by the jungler

after 2013 i left the game to play dota2, i came back in jully 2016 and i started to play toplane oh boy, it was like an other dimension

the toplane i knew was no longer the same, i almost couldn't move in any teamfights i played with darius, in 2013 you could 2v1 the jungler if he tried to gank in mid game because he was 2 lvls behind you now the jungler is on the same lvl you can't do shit and get destroyed i'm forced to take teleport for some reasons and this summoner spell is still not being nerfed, i hate toplane more than anything else

https://i.gyazo.com/ce44fbac726c0998d2bc7a75a817a5d9.png

this is one game of today and listen closely at the bullshit ornn got ganked like twice, he was at one point 1/2 i think and aatrox was ahead of one level AND ORNN SOLO KILLED HIM IN LANE IN 1V1 a diamond 2 ornn player THAT NEVER PLAYED ORNN solo killed an AATROX MAIN WTF, with only ninja tabi and bramble vest

just become an adc main like me and play Vayne Caitlyn Jhin Mordekaiser

genuine question, how do you manage to avoid getting camped and stomped as jhin? played in and owned in normals but just get stomped to the ground by 4mans in ranked

Ahristocats1 votes

if you get 4 man ganked in ranked your team got outplayed, there was nothing you could do however if it happens in every single game you need to question yourself because you might have done something wrong, maybe the vision, unless you're super unlucky

when i get ganked with jhin i make sure that i have placed traps on the side of the lane , and i bait the enemy jungler into it and snare with W

D4M2X01 votes

just become an adc main like me and play Vayne Caitlyn Jhin Mordekaiser

Vayne Twitch KogMaw Lulu Janna FTFY

AirKingNeo1 votes

i'm an adc/support main fuck toplane, that role that brings 0 impact on the game, that role made for braindead tanks like ornn, role that is decided by the jungler

Basically me, but I'm sure whether to ADC or jungle. I still want to play Kayle, but she's subpar in both roles.

RocketRelm1 votes

You make a lot of legit points, but both "Aatrox is in a bad spot" and "Ornn is super busted" aren't relevant to the state of the game at large in top lane, but moreso the specific two champions.

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

that role made for braindead tanks like ornn

It's real fun to see the player who praised Darius and Janna call Ornn 'braindead' when he has like 2 times more skillshots, conditions and delays than them two combined.

Ahristocats2 votes

Yeah, Ornn has 2 skillshots lul

it's not like they have 3000 speed or anything, it's fine it's not like ornn just needs his W to 1v1

it's also not like i'm playing CARRY Janna and not braindead E spam full support janna, but hey let's ad hominem a dude i don't know anything about!

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

Yeah, Ornn has 2 skillshots lul

And if you count anything in Dario's kit as a skillshot, Bellow's Breath is a skillshot too, so that's 6.

Your bias is silly.

And no, referring to your previous posts is not 'ad hominem'.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

And if you count anything in Dario's kit as a skillshot, Bellow's Breath is a skillshot too, so that's 6.

Darius doesn't have skillshots, Darius's difficulty comes from playing an immobile champ in this damn game with tanks and knock ups, and his positioning to hit as much champion with Q as he can Darius's win rate is lower in low elo because people are garbage on him

Ornn is braindead, i don't need to explain myself further his ult is almost impossible to miss same with Q if you miss both of them then lol i will stop myself there to avoid any toxicity

tank players are amazing me so much that's why i love the boards [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

AirKingNeo1 votes

the fuck is carry janna

Ahristocats1 votes

w maxing with athene ardent rabadon

D4M2X03 votes

just cause theyve qualified for their job, doesnt mean they are fit for it. anyone that cant justify their own bullhsit goes silent.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

Oh look pointless thread that means nothing

AirKingNeo1 votes

Pretty sure I criticized people for doing a poor job while pointing out the big ideas that need changing.

Sounds pretty meaningful.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

{quoted}

Pretty sure I criticized people for doing a poor job while pointing out the big ideas that need changing.

Sounds pretty meaningful.

meaningless thread is completely meaningless. If that was the intention you wouldn't be using a self imposed grading system on them. You would just be saying "hey you did this wrong for X reasons and this is how i believe you could improve on it"

Instead all you come up as is some douchebag that is mad because Riot isn't doing exactly what you want them to do like your goal and the way to reach that goal is the only way for them to succeed. It isn't. A grading system means nothing specially when it's this clearly biased thing. Why don't you actually get rid of it and just say what you think they did wrong and how they can do better with no strings attached or any garbage that means absolutely nothing.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Actually, the grading system is arbitrary and is only there to display my thoughts in another way, aka they've failed in every regard. Also, if you read anything I said, you'll know I refused to point out how to fix it because Riot doesn't listen. It's like the paragraph.

Yeah. I'm going to be an ass to people who are not doing their job. That's pretty basic. I did say what they did wrong, many times in fact; so much, I stopped trying.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

Actually, the grading system is arbitrary and is only there to display my thoughts in another way, aka they've failed in every regard. Also, if you read anything I said, you'll know I refused to point out how to fix it because Riot doesn't listen. It's like the paragraph.

Yeah. I'm going to be an ass to people who are not doing their job. That's pretty basic. I did say what they did wrong, many times in fact; so much, I stopped trying.

in other words this thread is just as pointless as i said it was. Sorry but your grading system is dumb and pointless. You not wanting to actually even give your 2 cents on how they can fix things you aren't satisfied with, just because "Riot doesn't listen" just tells me you are a lazy person who complains for the sake of complaining but doesn't add anything at all.

You can be an ass to anyone you want. Guess what though? they are doing their job whether you like it or not. Sorry but you aren't being helpful in the slightest. You aren't actually even attempting to provide any meaningful ways of how they can try and fix something all you are doing is saying "i don't like this and you have failed! k bay!" which kinda defeats the entire purpose of a thread like this. If you don't care why should they? if you stopped trying why should they care about what you say or think? Everyone can point out what's wrong in something very few people can actually give advice on how to rectify what is wrong. Riot isn't some god figure that will fix everything in an instant and they also aren't some unreasonable group of douches that don't listen to anyone.

It takes time for anything to be fixed. It takes time for things to actually come out the way you want them to come out. It's very easy to say "just do X and that will fix everything" a lot of time things don't work out that way. Some other unexpected things can happen and also it might not even be enough. That is why they don't implement every single little thing that everyone here says they should be doing. Because quite frankly while it looks good on paper... that's about as far as that idea looks good on and it could have been something they already tried and decided that it wasn't a good idea.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Ok. Since it's 2018 and you're unironically defending the balance team (haha, I get to make that joke now), please explain how they are doing their job?

Is not fixing the core issues we have like 1/5th of the roster not having a viable rune page doing their job? Is allowing broken items like Bramble Vest to go unnerfed doing their job? Nerfing Jayce and Maokai? Lack of balance of power between certain runes go unchanged? Completely biased decisions? How about not having any form of discussion with the community about balance? Is any of these things they don't do part of their job?

Yes actually, the live design team is a group of unreasonable douches. That's why they don't talk balance at all. That's why you have Meddler's gameplay thoughts where he talks about nothing relevant to the current state of the game. The guy is talking about Yi and Tryndamere being weak despite no one giving a damn about them because Patch 7.24b failed and top lane is still bleeding. If you mention anything about top lane bleeding, or support powercreep, or any actual, real issue, he will not respond.

Does it take time? I don't think it takes half a season to nerf a broken item. I don't think it takes two years to nerf two broken top laners.

Could you actually just make an argument that makes sense to support the Balance Team? I can list everything bad about them, but somehow you don't list anything good about them.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

So, did the Gaming Forum Department of Design approve the grading system you used?

Idk, this seems arbitrary.

Not saying this season doesn't have issues, but you're showing it in all the wrong ways.

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