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Sejuani - Please, god, not like this

Moody P··60 votes·18,677 views

These are good and exactly what I asked for earlier

Base armor increased from 31 to 34 HP per level increased from 88 to 100 Attack Speed Per Level increased from 3 to 4 Armor Per Level increased from 3 to 4

Good.

Arctic Assault (Q) Damage increased from 60/90/120/150/180 to 80/120/160/200/240

Whatever.

Winter's Wrath (W) 

    [Removed] Second hit no longer slows.

    Second hit damage increased from 30/65/100/135/170 to 30/70/110/140/185

A little arbitrary, but ok. Don't know why we just don't make it magic damage, like has been asked for since the rework dropped.

Permafrost (E) Stun duration lowered from 1/1.1/1.2/1.3/1.4 seconds to .8/.9/1/1.1/1.2 seconds Damage increased from 20/35/50/65/80 to 40/100/160/220/280

Is this a prank? Fucking 200 more base damage? Nerfing her stun again? It's a 4-stack mechanic for a backloaded .8 second stun????

I gotta say, I'm a little miffed that I waited a year for this.

107 Comments

Iota Theta34 votes

Seems to be a running theme of tank related changes:

change 1: ok Change 2: ok Change 3: weird but ok Last change: WHAT THE HECK IS THIS?!

I honestly have noncluenwhat they’re going for with some of these changes. First Ornn W remaining damage focused, trying to force him into Sejuani’s old playstyle wjen that was never Ornn’s design and is massively unhealthy for him.

Now this Sejuani change. I’ll be honest, the stun duration didn’t shock me as much as the massive damage buff at later ranks. 80 -> 280 at max rank followed by her %max hp shatter.

Just..revert both Sejuani to pre tank update and Ornn to release state at this point, Riot.

Signed, Ornn

Edit: corrected a number.

Moody P35 votes

revert Sejuani since this rework clearly isn't working out

nGio8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h2QFr4xl,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-11-07T22:58:01.152+0000)

revert Sejuani since this rework clearly isn't working out

Zac And take this poor motherfucker with her.

It's time for Riot to admit that they whiffed on these 2. Not only did they basically remove 2 of our few AP bruisers from the game for big jungle $upport plays, but they're fucking balance nightmares. Revert these turds, and give them their fucking identities back.

BraveCapuccino10 votes

{quoted}

Zac And take this poor motherfucker with her.

It's time for Riot to admit that they whiffed on these 2. Not only did they basically remove 2 of our few AP bruisers from the game for big jungle $upport plays, but they're fucking balance nightmares. Revert these turds, and give them their fucking identities back.

Old Zac's Q was fucking dumb though, not an interesting spell at all.

nGio3 votes

{quoted}

Old Zac's Q was fucking dumb though, not an interesting spell at all.

That's because you didn't play him obviously. His old Q was what kept his highest % in top lane. AOE wave clear that could slow and hit through creeps was his strongest laning tool. His new Q isn't worth him losing damage, sustain, wave clear, and the ability to lane. I'd be happy with a full revert.

BraveCapuccino9 votes

{quoted}

That's because you didn't play him obviously. His old Q was what kept his highest % in top lane. AOE wave clear that could slow and hit through creeps was his strongest laning tool. His new Q isn't worth him losing damage, sustain, wave clear, and the ability to lane. I'd be happy with a full revert.

I did play him, jungle. I hate toplane, and his old Q was one of those dumb spell like current jarvan's W or annie's E (press the button with no mechanics behind, kind off a DUH button, same goes for his old ultimate, just "press R to knock up people", I really liked his rework and the idea behind it, make you need to think a bit before pressing your buttons.)

Daddy Ants24 votes

Riot's logic on fixing tanks: More damage.

People are complaining that damage is too high in the game but they add more....

Eleshakai1 votes

The problem isn't tanks doing damage, it's that nobody wants to play them so we have 4-5 high-damage champs in a single game. If buffing a tank's damage a bit makes people play them in stead of, say, aatrox or xin zhao... it reduces the amount of damage in the game.

Iota Theta1 votes

{quoted}

The problem isn't tanks doing damage, it's that nobody wants to play them so we have 4-5 high-damage champs in a single game. If buffing a tank's damage a bit makes people play them in stead of, say, aatrox or xin zhao... it reduces the amount of damage in the game.

But this doesn’t mean they need to ruin what actual tank players love to get more random people playing those tanks. Once you start giving tanks more damage, you have to take away from other parts of their kits, and then they don’t feel like tanks anymore, often times juggernauts with slightly less damage, more CC, and more mobility.

Eleshakai1 votes

And that is a perfectly valid complaint! I am not saying that it is not valid to complain about the Sej changes... just that claiming increasing the damage a lower damage champ does is 'increasing the amount of damage in the game' is not seeing the whole picture.

wolvius23 votes

Are all tank's being turned into bruisers or something cause these changes are getting ridiculous.

Alzon2 votes

It’s the only way tanks will remain viable as more and more damage/resistance shred/true damage are added to the game. Just look at item 3124 on PBE.

wolvius6 votes

{quoted}

It’s the only way tanks will remain viable as more and more damage/resistance shred/true damage are added to the game. Just look at item 3124 on PBE.

Yeah saw that yesterday they might as well remove resists entirely at this point, resist are just for surviving tower shots inbetween demolish procs at this point.

Vekkna21 votes

Fun fact: this gives Sejuani higher base damage and AP ratios than Lissandra.

Makes sense.

TheSingularity16 votes

Riot needs to evert sejuani, revert zac and stop fucking their mains over because they have botched their fking reworks by loading them with additional CC. They've crushed 6 tanks purely for pro play.

Sejuani: Q, W unchanged. E and R reverted. Her W is more enjoyable and interesting than press for 4 seconds of AOE Zac: revert ult. Potentially keep Q as it is similar to sej W in that it's interesting in a good way. But potentially remove because his old Q did top lane better and wasn't a balance problem

LankPants2 votes

Sejuani: Q, W unchanged. E and R reverted. Her W is more enjoyable and interesting than press for 4 seconds of AOE

I'd prefer just to see a full revert. New W is a super clunky ability that feels terrible to use. It also has next to no power on it other than being capable of procing E, compared to her old W which was actually a pretty strong ability.

rtbf360834623 votes

When will people realize this game DOESN’T NEED MORE AMUMU CLONES?

TheSingularity2 votes

How is old Zac in any way amumu? If every tank is just an amumu clone, they wouldn't be amumu clones, they'd be nunu or alistar clones, as they was the first tank in lol. Current zac is more similar to amumu than old, as his R is far more static

Their kits are completely different. Yes they have similar structure: a gapcloser, a heavy CC ult, a spam spell. THAT IS THE PROFILE OF ALMOST EVERY TANK! That doesn't make them bloody amumu clones.

R35URR3C710N5 votes

{quoted}

Riot needs to evert sejuani, revert zac and stop fucking their mains over because they have botched their fking reworks by loading them with additional CC. They've crushed 6 tanks purely for pro play.

Sejuani: Q, W unchanged. E and R reverted. Her W is more enjoyable and interesting than press for 4 seconds of AOE Zac: revert ult. Potentially keep Q as it is similar to sej W in that it's interesting in a good way. But potentially remove because his old Q did top lane better and wasn't a balance problem

I actually prefer the old W. New one just feels wimpy to me. Not a whole lot of weight to it.

LankPants7 votes

Riot has truly no clue with this rework. They're just throwing shit at the wall and hopping it sticks. Hopefully they can just admit they fucked up and revert her soon.

Cavesloth6 votes

Just revert her and start over.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

Just revert her and start over.

and for RekSai too, i used to love her kit, now i absolutely HATE it.

Demesejha6 votes

there was a thread about how bad she is rn recently as well; several in fact. Its about time they address this because its literally unplayable.

Furious about Sejuani Please Buff Sej Ideas for Buffs Play Rates Unviability

Thats five separate threads out of roughly 100 or more, in the past MONTH alone.

For real.

Not a single one has a single red. They dont care.

XxDRAGONsAK47xX6 votes

Just revert her back...

The rework was clearly aimed for pro play, AND IT CLEARLY FAILED. You reverted LB. You reverted Rengar. Revert Sej

Linna Excel6 votes

Can we call the mid-level rework a total failure and just revert her already?

Iota Theta3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h2QFr4xl,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-11-08T04:15:09.445+0000)

Can we call the mid-level rework a total failure and just revert her already?

By what I’m hearing for her and Zac, it sounds like Maokai got the best out of the tank update.

Leto GT5 votes

Isnt it a mistake or something? Im confused but hyped at the same time.

Édit : They nerfed the range to 600 so thats quite a change, it means you can flash/dash out of it easily before it's stacked especially since the slow is removed from W.

Edit 2 : tried her on PBE still unplayable. As expected the remove slow makes her not sticky enough to get the 4th stack so you can't even use it. The reduce range makes it even harder to land the E if someone flashes out.

oortoomeebreesuu4 votes

TANKS DO NOT NEED TO TANK THEY NEED D A M A G E

Monstermushmush3 votes

And Rito is forcing tanks to do damage instead of providing CC. GJ rito.

Z3Sleeper3 votes

Why are you against this? This is what we've been asking for since the start of the season.

We needed more damage in the game and it's about time they gave it to us.

Blackii72 votes

{quoted}

Why are you against this? This is what we've been asking for since the start of the season.

We needed more damage in the game and it's about time they gave it to us.

Sarcasm much very strong.

Jahsuo Onfroy3 votes

This entire thread of comments are people who don't understand how threat levels work. If all she has is cc and resistance, she poses no threat as long as you avoid what she does through good micro or qss/cleanse. You give her damage on top of other utility to give people a reason to focus and deal with her when she's near you. There is a big reason why J4, Galio, and Sion are all extremely effective tanks/frontliners right now, it's the damage they get on top of being tankier.

SturmPioniere3 votes

Don't worry, guys, there's no damage creep.

FridgeD3 votes

what did you expect??? oh no! nobody like to play vs my brain cc machine that has way too much and too strong cc with very little counterplay! also it is really tanky and does absurd base dmg! how can people not like this kind of tanks?

the tank class update for zac and seju were acsolute jokes. both were fun niche picks before and braindead cc machines after crys in old zac toplane

DarkSoul19943 votes

Just want old Sejuani R back...

AbiwonKenabi3 votes

So many people in this thread asking for Sejuani revert. Am I the only one who likes the rework? I played her both before and after the rework and after some time to get used to the new kit, I ended up liking it more. Her W and E are more engaging and put more power onto her normal kit instead of a wimpy W aoe and most of her power being in her ult. Also her passive is just a flat upgrade, her old passive was not good. That's all without saying that a revert is extremely unlikely.

If anything, I thought the Maokai rework was the worst of the three, seeing as their main goal was to make him less of a generalist and they did that...by giving him more of a general team fight ultimate. The other two sorta hit their goals, even if you disagree on balance.

That said, the Sej changes are weird. You'd think they'd want to push her towards tank and not give her a ton of damage. It's not a very reliable stun, especially depending on your team comp, and the damage was delayed behind her follow-up auto, so she wasn't just bursting people. If they think she's stunning too much, they need to attach a cool down or something. Maybe shift power towards the W slow instead. I don't know, but these changes as is feel wrong.

Kazekiba1 votes

Sejuani was a garbage, dull champion although I did play her a bit, before the rework. This one is actually amazing, bar her W animations when you try to turn....

But increasing her damage drastically is very much not what Sejuani needs, her clear speed and ganks are effortless and fast enough already. Old Maokai's ultimate is 1000 times better than his new one, and I hate the new Maokai so much bar his Saplings change.

AbiwonKenabi1 votes

I personally don't think old Sejuani was garbage, but playing her a lot before and after, I can definitely agree I like this one more.

And yeah, I actually miss old old Maokai ult, the one you placed on the ground. I think it was a mistake to make it attached to him, it became more about damage reduction for himself in any situation, rather than having to think about and predict the best place to put the ult, and that place being where your team is stronger for a while. Balance problems started popping up after they changed that.

MarkedOfKane3 votes

OLD SEJAUANI WHEN ?

Pubbi3 votes

A tank whose CC duration is reduced but damage is increased. See? Balance. Akali

Automated Riven2 votes

Stop fucking removing tanks cc and buffing damage. Wtf?? The survivability buffs were good. Sejuani already has plenty of damage and doesn't need more. Survivability buffs and cc buffs should have been the choice. Good God riot.

yukumari2 votes

lol what the fuck is this hahahahahahahahah this change for a tank is actually so stupid

DeracadaVenom2 votes

Her stun was already bad enough and now it lasts for less than a second?! PLEASE RITO NO PUT IT BACK

Hochelaga1 votes

I'm not sure if you guys actually saw why Sejuani got her Permafrost dmg go up by 200dmg

**It now takes 4 stacks of frost in order to activate permafrost. ** So no more single auto attack to auto slow a target.

Also, her winter's wrath no longer slow. it's going to be way harder to apply cc with sejuani. She will now have to rely more on her allies to apply stacks of frost to actually have some decent effect, inciting more teamplay

tl;dr : Riot didn't add 200 dmg for free. She now has to apply 4 stacks of frost in order to detonate permafrost

Moody P2 votes

it was always 4 stacks.

saltran1 votes

Finally they do a good move, I've been saying for months that full utility tanks are way too strong on coordinated play and that they should reduce CC and increase their dmg since soloQ players play tanks as bruisers anyway.

Moody P3 votes

she's even more dependent on melee allies to proc her shit except now instead of just stunning you she'll 100-0 any squishy with her rotation lol

see how fast you change your tune when E max sej deletes you

Support Position1 votes

Well looks like im taking her support and maxing E [sg-jinx]

Iota Theta1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Support Position,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h2QFr4xl,comment-id=002a,timestamp=2018-11-09T08:13:58.740+0000)

Well looks like im taking her support and maxing E [sg-jinx]

Take a Pantheon or other strong lane melee and run a kill lane style.

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/p2sxfe9o-why-do-vanguards-keep-getting-the-short-end-of-the-design-stick

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