Can someone from Riot explain it to me. Like, Riot does realize he already has a passive, right? He gets a free bubble from walking/EEEEEEEEEEEing around. Why does this champ have double crit. And can you make it so Brand also has double crit? I think it fits his design.
Subject 52 votesIn my opinion, it is terrible game design.
Yasuo has to pay the same amount of cash for the critical strike items that he buys, shiv IE primarily. Building attack speed means that he reduces his Q cooldown by a large amount, even below a second. He has lesser critical strike damage but that doesn't make the game any less impactful when he basically doubles his damage and more when he gets IE. While an adc needs to spend the cash for more crit chance and damage items, Yasuo has the luxury of building only 2 crit items and basically having 100% critical chance. While also being cost efficient, this is why Yasuo is barred from having reasonable resistances and has a substantially lower level of HP. Even though he gets a shield and extreme safety if played correct in the mid lane.
TL;DR - In my opinion, he was not created with LoL items in mind. And if he was created with the items in mind, it was just bad design philosophy that will leave Yasuo in the same state that Zyra was left alone in. Could you imagine a champion like Vayne getting 100% attack speed increase instead of 50 from the same item that costs Tristana 2k gold and Vayne also 2k gold? (League of Legends only in mind)
Lord Dusteon2 votes[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gy7UVh0q,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-10-21T21:04:30.102+0000)
In my opinion, it is terrible game design.
Yasuo has to pay the same amount of cash for the critical strike items that he buys, shiv IE primarily. Building attack speed means that he reduces his Q cooldown by a large amount, even below a second. He has lesser critical strike damage but that doesn't make the game any less impactful when he basically doubles his damage and more when he gets IE. While an adc needs to spend the cash for more crit chance and damage items, Yasuo has the luxury of building only 2 crit items and basically having 100% critical chance. While also being cost efficient, this is why Yasuo is barred from having reasonable resistances and has a substantially lower level of HP. Even though he gets a shield and extreme safety if played correct in the mid lane.
TL;DR - In my opinion, he was not created with LoL items in mind. And if he was created with the items in mind, it was just bad design philosophy that will leave Yasuo in the same state that Zyra was left alone in. Could you imagine a champion like Vayne getting 100% attack speed increase instead of 50 from the same item that costs Tristana 2k gold and Vayne also 2k gold? (League of Legends only in mind)
That's a bad comparison. He has shit base stats and no MR because he also has a shield and a wall that literally deletes projectiles along with very fast dashes if any enemies are nearby. He's supposed to duck and weave around and dodge/dissipate damage, not face tank it which is why his resistances and bases are shit and his other defensive tools are situationally amazing.
Additionally, Yasuo pays for his crit chance and you don't seem to care. He loses 10% crit damage on all normal autos, meaning a critical strike does 180%/225% in return for 2x chance. "But wait Dusty that still means he gets more benefit from crit!" No duh. He's a melee adc (one of the fighters, such as Master Yi, or Tryndamere) and NEEDS a steroid to be relevant: his is 2x crit chance (10% less crit damage) instead of things like Master Yi's double strike, 10% AD boost, 20% AD as true damage on hit, and 80% AS or Tryndamere's 35% crit chance, 25 AD, and up to 35 AD based on missing health. Of all the light fighters Yasuo has the lowest damage (having only one steroid, and his steroid coming with a drawback). Even then, the damage nerf applies much more to Yasuo as his Q deals 25% reduced crit damage (150%/187.5%) meaning a normal autoattack crit on any other champion does more than his Q crit with IE.
So to close, your adc gold analogy only works if Vayne gets 100% AS but loses, say, 50 AD instead of getting 50% AS. Yasuo pays for his steroid with intense squishiness and lower damage compared to every other light fighter.
Subject 51 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gy7UVh0q,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-10-21T21:14:45.307+0000)
That's a bad comparison. He has shit base stats and no MR because he also has a shield and a wall that literally deletes projectiles along with very fast dashes if any enemies are nearby. He's supposed to duck and weave around and dodge/dissipate damage, not face tank it which is why his resistances and bases are shit and his other defensive tools are situationally amazing.
Additionally, Yasuo pays for his crit chance and you don't seem to care. He loses 10% crit damage on all normal autos, meaning a critical strike does 180%/225% in return for 2x chance. "But wait Dusty that still means he gets more benefit from crit!" No duh. He's a melee adc (one of the fighters, such as Master Yi, or Tryndamere) and NEEDS a steroid to be relevant: his is 2x crit chance (10% less crit damage) instead of things like Master Yi's double strike, 10% AD boost, 20% AD as true damage on hit, and 80% AS or Tryndamere's 35% crit chance, 25 AD, and up to 35 AD based on missing health. Of all the light fighters Yasuo has the lowest damage (having only one steroid, and his steroid coming with a drawback). Even then, the damage nerf applies much more to Yasuo as his Q deals 25% reduced crit damage (150%/187.5%) meaning a normal autoattack crit on any other champion does more than his Q crit with IE.
So to close, your adc gold analogy only works if Vayne gets 100% AS but loses, say, 50 AD instead of getting 50% AS. Yasuo pays for his steroid with intense squishiness and lower damage compared to every other light fighter.
Don't take the comparison too seriously, I don't want to hurt your heart too much. It was a metaphor, I will just have to let you come up what it was about.
HEALTH 498 – 1909 ATTACK DAMAGE 50 – 106 HEALTH REGEN. 5.4 – 14.8 ATTACK SPEED [*] 0.658 (+0% – 68.0%) MANA 232 – 827 ARMOR 19.0 – 76.8 MANA REGEN. 7.0 – 13.8 MAGIC RES. 30.0 RANGED 550 MOV. SPEED 330 -Vayne
HEALTH 518 – 1912 ATTACK DAMAGE 55 – 110 HEALTH REGEN. 6.5 – 21.8 ATTACK SPEED [*] 0.658 (+0% – 54.4%) NO RESOURCE ARMOR 24.7 – 82.5 MAGIC RES. 30.0 MELEE 175 MOV. SPEED 345 -Yasuo
HEALTH 543 – 1937 ATTACK DAMAGE 52 – 103 HEALTH REGEN. 6.2 – 17.2 ATTACK SPEED [*] 0.656 (+0% – 25.5%) MANA 247 – 791 ARMOR 22.0 – 73.0 MANA REGEN. 7.2 – 14.9 MAGIC RES. 30.0 RANGED 550 MOV. SPEED 325 -Tristana
I would just like it to be known that what you said about the base stats is not at all right. I didn't bother with reading what you had to say matter of fact, I don't read people without a care for how they act. You can act like that on 4Chan. I never mentioned ANYTHING about what I skimmed through your post about, I was speaking about efficiency.
Lord Dusteon2 votes[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gy7UVh0q,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-10-21T21:55:17.507+0000)
Don't take the comparison too seriously, I don't want to hurt your heart too much. It was a metaphor, I will just have to let you come up what it was about.
HEALTH 498 – 1909 ATTACK DAMAGE 50 – 106 HEALTH REGEN. 5.4 – 14.8 ATTACK SPEED [*] 0.658 (+0% – 68.0%) MANA 232 – 827 ARMOR 19.0 – 76.8 MANA REGEN. 7.0 – 13.8 MAGIC RES. 30.0 RANGED 550 MOV. SPEED 330 -Vayne
HEALTH 518 – 1912 ATTACK DAMAGE 55 – 110 HEALTH REGEN. 6.5 – 21.8 ATTACK SPEED [*] 0.658 (+0% – 54.4%) NO RESOURCE ARMOR 24.7 – 82.5 MAGIC RES. 30.0 MELEE 175 MOV. SPEED 345 -Yasuo
HEALTH 543 – 1937 ATTACK DAMAGE 52 – 103 HEALTH REGEN. 6.2 – 17.2 ATTACK SPEED [*] 0.656 (+0% – 25.5%) MANA 247 – 791 ARMOR 22.0 – 73.0 MANA REGEN. 7.2 – 14.9 MAGIC RES. 30.0 RANGED 550 MOV. SPEED 325 -Tristana
I would just like it to be known that what you said about the base stats is not at all right. I didn't bother with reading what you had to say matter of fact, I don't read people without a care for how they act. You can act like that on 4Chan. I never mentioned ANYTHING about what I skimmed through your post about, I was speaking about efficiency.
Before mentioning the math, if you post on a public message board about balance expect your thoughts and ideas to be criticized. Rolling up into a little ball while going "nah not reading your reply it has numbers and words" isn't the way to go.
So. Math wise, you notice something about those numbers? That's right, 2 of those are late game scaling adcs who are supposed to have a shit early game. That's why their base stats are ass. If you also notice, Yasuo has comparable stats to 2 late game scaling glass cannon champions who rely on items and range. He doesn't have the luxury of right clicking everything from 550+ range away and infinitely kiting, which is why (like all other light fighters) he has a gapcloser, a powerful steroid, and some form of extremely powerful defensive ability. Compared to other champions in his class he has the weakest steroid, weakest damage, and a situationally useful defensive ability that still can be played around. In return for being the weakest damage wise he has situational hard CC and higher mobility.
Efficiency wise, what do you think steroids do? Honest question. Crit reliant champions scale on several multiplicative stats: AD, AS, Crit chance, Crit damage, and somewhat Armor pen. These all multiply together to create the massive late game damage adcs and light fighters have (100 AD x 1.0 AS is 100 DPS. Add 50% crit chance, you effectively deal 150 DPS. Add another 100 AD, 300 DPS. Etc.). That means the adc/light fighter with the highest amount of multipliers usually has the highest damage and efficiency: Master Yi gets an extra 10% AD and 80% AS just from his E passive and ultimate, meaning all of his multipliers are larger. Tryndamere gets 35% crit chance and 25-60 AD, meaning his DPS is effectively 35% higher (52.5% higher with IE) JUST from the crit chance. Yasuo has a powerful steroid (2x crit chance)...that doesn't come into play until he has a crit item. Even then, that steroid is weakening another multiplier (one with precious few ways to boost) which means his overall DPS is low. He gets an extra, say, 40% crit chance with his normal build...but instead of being 40% extra damage it's 36%. If you notice that means after 2 huge damage items his crit steroid slightly surpasses JUST the critical strike chance DPS of Tryndamere. His steroid is not that efficient or powerful.
Tldr before you ignore my entire post to go "nah not reading" again, Yasuo's steroid is weak due to how multiplicative stats work and how he only has one moderate steroid.
Face The Lewd1 votesHe gets reduced crit damage to compensate It turns his crits into less of an RNG game once he has items which I would say is healthier than a 55% crit chance adc whose damage is a complete toss-up whereas Yasuo's is consistent damage
And if he didn't have that "free bubble" then he would have scaling MR, higher base stats, and possibly even higher ability damage It's called a power budget If we removed one aspect of his current kit something else would need to be improved to keep his power budget in check
ZzEslIolZQ1 votesCan you give me numbers rather than refer to the concept of the power budget which doesn't exist on any meaningful marco level to warrant the mention of it at all and really solely exists to try to make Riot seem more competent than they are. And no, 100% crit isn't made up with a 10% reduct in crit damage. The very idea is literally retarded.
Yeah so lets just give every ADC double crit. Why have RNG, just better design, just have them do 2k dmg per auto 100% of the time.
Face The Lewd1 votes[{quoted}](name=Halo of the Sun,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gy7UVh0q,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-10-21T20:48:34.211+0000)
Can you give me numbers rather than refer to the concept of the power budget which doesn't exist on any meaningful marco level to warrant the mention of it at all and really solely exists to try to make Riot seem more competent than they are. And no, 100% crit isn't made up with a 10% reduct in crit damage. The very idea is literally retarded.
Yeah so lets just give every ADC double crit. Why have RNG, just better design, just have them do 2k dmg per auto 100% of the time.
You're forgetting that it's a 25% reduction on Q aside from the reduced 10% on AAs
Quints1 votesDid you even read what they said? Yasuo crits for significantly less than any other adc or melee champion in the game, and is in fact one of the IF NOT the weakest light fighter in the game. Not to mention how much counterplay in terms of items and even MASTERIES there is against yasuo, and to top it all off, Riot has repeatedly nerfed yasuo indirectly in the preseason when they nerfed IE and Shiv, to the point where 100% crit on yasuo isn't achievable without either runes or 3 items(the previous being 2).
Instead of being ignorant how about you look it up for yourself, it's a lot easier to list things that are power about a champion and call it broken and complain about it, than it is to learn counterplay.
Primaquarius1 votesCrit damage you mean
<<>> To the OP
ADC Crit value = 200% / 250% with 
Yasuo Crit value = 180% / 225% with
Rustling Bush1 votes[{quoted}](name=Face The Lewd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gy7UVh0q,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-21T20:45:01.735+0000)
He gets reduced crit chance to compensate It turns his crits into less of an RNG game once he has items which I would say is healthier than a 55% crit chance adc whose damage is a complete toss-up whereas Yasuo's is consistent damage
And if he didn't have that "free bubble" then he would have scaling MR, higher base stats, and possibly even higher ability damage It's called a power budget If we removed one aspect of his current kit something else would need to be improved to keep his power budget in check
i just want to have the ability to see the little white rings on minions he can't dash to, so hard to keep track of it. thats fair enough right?
Face The Lewd1 votes[{quoted}](name=Summoner Grey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gy7UVh0q,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2015-10-21T20:51:03.303+0000)
i just want to have the ability to see the little white rings on minions he can't dash to, so hard to keep track of it. thats fair enough right?
Fair suggestion If anything he should've been released with that
Kazaashi1 votesWell, if you think about it, he is a samurai type dude and samurai's were all about killing people in as few hits as possible, chiefly 1 hit. It would make sense that his attacks are focused on hitting people in critical areas to take them down faster.
And to pay for the higher Crit chance, he does less crit dmg. Seems reasonable to me.
PDE5 Inhibitors1 votesBecause he doesn't have every other thing in the game...oh nevermind, he does.
The Whamboozler1 votesThe issue with Yasuo isn't double crit. Double crit just means that when he gets to you, he does his job of messing you up. It means he gets his offense from two items and then can build durability OR that he does more damage than your girlfriend did to your self-esteem when she left you on prom night.
The problem is his @#$%ing Wind Wall! Wind Wall is a better defensive ability than nearly ANY OTHER ONE in the game. It can single-handedly win teamfights by blocking a powerful ult, by preventing the adc from fighting without going WAY out of position, and he can drop it and then stand in it himself to be basically immune to ranged attacks for a remarkably long time. He literally can press a button to invalidate nearly every ranged attack or spell in the game and it costs him NOTHING. There is no down side to wind wall. It costs him no mana or health. It's on a longish cooldown, but so? He has a spammy dash and his free passive shield already to reduce poke damage.
Wind Wall is the reason yasuo is so cancerous and unfun to play against. The windows to actually attack him meaningfully are few... and unless you counter pick him by using someone windwall doesn't work against, there is literally NO way to ruin his day unless HE screws up. The power of the lane is entirely in his hands. Sure, he's difficult and his skillcap is high... but that doesn't make him balanced. It means that in the hands of a very good player he is borderline invincible unless counterpicked. Good game design isn't so binary like that. No matter who you pick, you should have a chance against him if YOU play well. You don't. You only have a chance if HE plays poorly... and that isn't ok.
ZzEslIolZQ1 votesThey're never going to change windwall they just released fiora who literally has windwall but better cause it blocks everything from every direction then she stuns you.
The Voids Call1 votesHonestly i'd be fine with double crit chance, if he didn't also have double auto attacks. Technically speaking he crits 4 times as often as the average champion.