Since Nasus has become a topic of QQ here on boards, allow me to remind y’all of a few things

HateDaddy··12 votes·4,332 views

Hello. Season 2 Nasus player here. Lots of games. Much play. He jugado much del perro conocido como Nasus. Two languages. Impressive. Wow.

So, I’m going to avoid the topic of whether he is “OP” or not because the reality is that the game is so different between low elo and high elo and given that this board is mostly lower elo spectrum, their perspective is warped. As I’ve talked to many higher elo players about Nasus since I’m no longer in that area myself, they’re saying he’s really not that great. Lower elo, of course, begs to differ. I’m not here to smear anyone, but there’s a clear difference of opinion and if I argued whether he’s OP or not, it would just fall on deaf ears.

SO.....

Instead, I want to take the time to debunk some rather outrageous claims I’ve seen regarding Nasus recently. Many of these things are things that have always been true or are cases of extreme exaggeration. So let’s go over a few:

The most common one I see is:

Once the game reaches 10-15 minutes, nobody can duel nasus

This is absolutely false on a few fronts. Number 1, by 10-15 minutes, nasus has always been one of the best duelists at this point. Ever since his Q CD reduction buff on his ult, very few champions can facetank him. If you choose to sit there and melee him for 15 seconds straight during his ult without kiting or disengaging, that is your mistake. Number 2, there are many champions that can beat him in duels at this point assuming equal footing. Darius, Aatrox, Yi, Jax, Trynd, Cho’Gath and a few more all have the capacity to beat him. Nevertheless, this claim simply lacks truth. Nasus has always been a strong duelist at this point, so this isn’t anything new. And it’s also false in that there are definitely people that beat him.

Another claim I’m hearing:

Free passive lifesteal wtf do dumb

Okay, so I had this conversation earlier but I’ll restate it: this statement is dumb. There’s no such thing as a “free passive.” It costs him his passive. Yes there are power budgets to consider but I would much rather have a passive on him that helps him deal with being kited or boosts his durability, or makes him less susceptible to cc. His healing early game just isn’t that great. Certainly it helps, but other things contribute more. He gets more value from runes and Doran shield regen than he does his passive. Yes, sheen boosts his healing quite a bit but if he builds sheen, he’s still incredibly squishy and prime lane bullies will eat him alive for rushing this. In addition, there are many champions with much better healing passives, Cho’Gath being one of the most notable ones. Vlad also heals much better and it costs him virtually nothing. Irelia still heals on her Q, which also gives her wave control. Mundo’s passive laughs at Nasus early game. GAREN’S passive laughs at Nasus’ lifesteal early game. The fact is, it’s a design put in place to help him survive but it often doesn’t offer a huge swing. Either nasus is denied so hard that he can’t go near minions to sustain off of, or he’s able to farm and become strong enough to fight you off and then sustain - in both cases, healing isn’t what’s determining his success, it’s your gameplay and the potential for jungle intervention that does in addition to champion match-ups.

Let’s move on:

Nasus has 130 cs but 500 stacks!!!

This is just demonstrably false. This was a thread on the top of the page, and what happened was Nasus got lots of kills. I’m assuming this player messed up. He also picked a champion that Nasus is very good against (Ryze). Nasus ended this game 14/5, so if we assume he last hit every champion with Q, which isn’t likely but let’s just say for the sake of the argument he did, then Nasus would’ve gained 168 stacks from that alone. So in other words, a champion snowballed and did ridiculous things. Yes, that never happens in league of legends. Let’s also look at how absurd this claim is: 130 CS to 500 stacks. Even if he last hit every single one of those with Q, you’re still only looking at 390 Stacks. Obviously cannons factor into that, but I don’t have to tell you he didn’t last hit 20+ cannon minions out of that 130 cs, which would be required to exceed 500 stacks with 110 minions all being last hit and 20 cannons. And this is assuming, again, that every last minion he last hit was with Q and I don’t have to tell you that this is impossible. In other words, this is an outrageous claim that may have happened but it only did because Nasus had lots of kills and got over a 3rd of his stacks that way.

Nasus perma slows me and I just can’t fight him

Qss is a thing. Nasus explodes in teamfights easily. Nasus is prone to chain CC. And if nasus gets ahead and split pushes, heaven forbid he be allowed to be good at the one thing riot has balanced him as: a split pusher. Let’s also remember this doesn’t happen until much later in the game now. It is much more common for Nasus to max E second, which means perma-wither isn’t happening until late levels like 16+. At that point, split pushers all have ridiculous individual sticking power (Jax Q/E, Trynd W/E, Riven’s kit, Aatrox’s Kit, Irelias kit, etc). Why should nasus not have the same capacity when, unlike the aforementioned champions, he doesn’t have mobility at all.

So, there it is friends. Just a few things to remember when discussing Nasus. Thanks for your time. ¡Tengan un buen día!

42 Comments

boricCentaur17 votes

This is the most sensible post about nasus I have seen good job.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

This is the most sensible post about nasus I have seen good job.

Gracias amigo, trato de tener sentido cuando discutir el juego.

Jamenawerl1 votes

Nice google translator rofl.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Nice google translator rofl.

No de hecho puedo hablar español porque lo estudio además de psicología a mi universidad. ya lo sabes y puedes darme todo tu dinero, gracias.

Jamenawerl1 votes

He jugado mucho al perro conocido como Nasus.

Gracias amigo, trato de tener sentido cuando discuto el juego.

No**,** de hecho puedo hablar español porque lo estudio además de psicología en mi universidad. Ya lo sabes y puedes darme todo tu dinero, gracias.

FTFY. Still not perfect (that would require more complex language to avoid sounding like a kid/yokel) but good enough.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

FTFY. Still not perfect (that would require more complex language to avoid sounding like a kid/yokel) but good enough.

Thanks baby, I’m still learning

Dr Dog7 votes

i think the main complaint really is just the fact hes a very outdated and point and click low elo stomper, on top of if your not the top laner you have little control over your own top laner letting him free stack or get fed just becoming pretty much unstoppable without 3 or 4 people or a fed teammate with good kite so he just ends up feeling unfair for a lot of people

its always been like this its just being complained about a lot more after he got buffed despite his buff not fixing any of his issues, it just made him more of a hassle for low elo players

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gxA1JLjw,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-06T16:52:16.741+0000)

i think the main complaint really is just the fact hes very outdated and point and click low elo stomper, on top of if your not the top laner you have little control over your own top laner letting him free stack or get fed just becoming pretty much unstoppable without 3 or 4 people or a fed teammate with good kite so he just ends up feeling unfair for a lot of people

its always been like this its just being complained about a lot more after he got buffed despite his buff not fixing any of his issues, it just made him more of a hassle for low elo players

I don’t deny the novel effect. New buffs. Videos playing him in the jungle (even I was a victim of the moment with this), polarizing champion - I get it. But as you’ve already stated, nothing has changed. And I would argue that he isn’t outdated. Riot has made some pretty substantial changes to him that make him significantly different than his original release. Sure, the same concept exists but when updating a champion over time or through reworks, that’s what riot has claimed to always aim to do.

Dr Dog1 votes

people still think hes good jg which i think is funny, all it did was go from a troll pick to slightly less of a troll pick

as for being outdated he still really is in the fact that his slow and main dmg source are simple and point and click, his q really isnt the outdated part its his slow having little in terms of counterplay and being balanced as such and his e being little more than a bit of armor shred, if nasus is going to be viable at higher tiers or well balanced as a whole these 2 spells need to be reworked his e less changed than w ofc

Saezio4 votes

His whole kit stinks of 2010 or so. Just compare him to all the new champions released / reworked. He needs a lot of love to be on equal footing design-wise to the newer cooler kits.

Daddy Ants6 votes

{quoted}

Nasus perma slows me and I just can’t fight him

**Qss is a thing.

Hi I QSS your W.

Just kidding you reapply it 3 seconds later.... I have another 87 seconds to wait for my QSS though.

Doge20201 votes

The lowest CD is somewhere around 4-5 seconds but overall you are on the correct track.

Bârd2 votes

Except damage is high enough that even if he lives long enough to cast W a second time, he won't live long enough to capitalize on it.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Hi I QSS your W.

Just kidding you reapply it 3 seconds later.... I have another 87 seconds to wait for my QSS though.

Once again, how is his sticking power any different than Jax or Trynd, etc? It’s easy to fixate on the idea of being perma slowed but realize many champions comparable to him have the same capacity to stick to your permanently while disabling you in some way.

HopeStartsWithU1 votes

Honestly tho, trynda and jax stick harder than nasus. At least some champs can "dash" or qss. But what are you gonna do against jax or trynda? Trynda slows hard and dashes while also reducing his dash CD and jax already has a low CD on his Q (+ he has a stun which isn' that much of a big deal).

Daddy Ants1 votes

{quoted}

Once again, how is his sticking power any different than Jax or Trynd, etc? It’s easy to fixate on the idea of being perma slowed but realize many champions comparable to him have the same capacity to stick to your permanently while disabling you in some way.

Jax and Trynda don't cripple your attack speed to snail speeds though.

Trynda may reduce AD but that doesn't prevent most melee champs and adc's from being able to fight back.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

Jax and Trynda don't cripple your attack speed to snail speeds though.

Trynda may reduce AD but that doesn't prevent most melee champs and adc's from being able to fight back.

Jax ignores your auto attacks and stuns you and Trynd reduces your AD by 80, both of which are just as crippling, if not more.

Anu3isII1 votes

What? His AS slow isn't even that great unless he maxes it and the opponent has no AS. Compare that Jax's E dodge + Stun, which makes him impossible to duel for many match-ups.

I get that Nasus feels bad to play against, but his overall kit doesn't have any gamebreaking mechanic. His numbers may be stupid right now, but he isn't that hard to play against.

And believe me, if you are a ranged Damage dealer 3 seconds are enough to make him low and if you have your team, you murder him compared to Jax or Tryn. Go 1v1 vs Nasus when he is stacked with full CDR, maxed W and can't duel him? Then you got a problem...

Saezio4 votes

They still need to change him. That champion is so binary and braindead. Mostly in the jungle he is an issue in higher ELO because people know how to protect their jungler to ease him through the early game. In low elo, you see nasus jungle and you know this line will appear " Omg, no ganks idiot, useless jungler"

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

They still need to change him. That champion is so binary and braindead. Mostly in the jungle he is an issue in higher ELO because people know how to protect their jungler to ease him through the early game. In low elo, you see nasus jungle and you know this line will appear " Omg, no ganks idiot, useless jungler"

Most high elo players don’t see him as in issue in the jungle. Even if they can’t invade/deny him, they’ll just gank and snowball while he isn’t pressuring at all.

Saezio2 votes

Yeah but he is way easier to deny and permagank in the top lane, that's what I am saying.

Also, being strong has nothing to do with the reasons he needs a full Update. He is binary and the Nasus player has 0 decisions to make in the game combat-wise. Such a champ should not exist in the league of 2019. Doge needs some love, maybe a full scale rework would be the only thing to fix him because so many things on him are just ultra stale.

HateDaddy2 votes

I don’t think he’s really binary. He has The potential to recover in most match-ups and relies on snowballing or team comps to perform well in 5v5s. And he also tons of decisions to make combat wise, otherwise he’d never be able to farm. In fact, nasus has some of the most in-depth match-up concepts of any champion. Sure, anybody can play Nasus in low elo and likely do well - low elo is chronically bad at wave control, trading, managing the need to end land phase and others that lend a favorable outcome to Nasus. However, when you play around people that do these things well, match-up knowledge becomes incredibly important for Nasus. And this is why you’ll see more “one-trick” Nasus players in higher elo than lower.

Saezio2 votes

So, there is thinking involved in laning for nasus? Not decisions like : Will I die if I go for this creep? Decisions like : Should I do this spell first or that or how can I outplay the enemy team. There are no timings in nasus kit, not at all. He has 1 way to fight. W into RE into as many Q as possible. He can't chose to play in a different pattern.

You said it in your own answer : _match-up knowledge _
You are basically a standard and your playstyle is only based on the enemy same with items.

Compare that to akali or camile trading patterns or irelia, riven.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

So, there is thinking involved in laning for nasus? Not decisions like : Will I die if I go for this creep? Decisions like : Should I do this spell first or that or how can I outplay the enemy team. There are no timings in nasus kit, not at all. He has 1 way to fight. W into RE into as many Q as possible. He can't chose to play in a different pattern.

You said it in your own answer : _match-up knowledge _
You are basically a standard and your playstyle is only based on the enemy same with items.

Compare that to akali or camile trading patterns or irelia, riven.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having champions like Camille or Irelia rely more on mechanical play whereas Nasus relies more on strategic and macro play.

Saezio2 votes

The thing is, he doesn't. Not more than all the other 142 champs anyway. It is not like he has some intricate splitting mechanic in his kit that requires him not to missmanage it. You get what I mean? What is the macro/strategic difference in decisions between Jax and Nasus for example.

I'll get to my final point because we have been on different wave lengths this whole time I think. I want to see Nasus buffed for high elo and I think the best reallocation of his strength would be to somehow lower his skill floor and increase his ceiling. It's more of a personal opinion I guess. Just how I personally would like to see Riot proceed forwards with him.

Doge20201 votes

that is why I love nasus lol. The amount of thinking and macro play I have to do makes it feel really rewarding when I get a lead, snowball and win the game.

Dr Dog1 votes

in masters+ his jg pickrate isnt even at 1% i wouldnt call that an issue

Zeppelins circus3 votes

"Free passive" is what you call when you have more than 2 passives on a passive.

Like this bastard. Yasuo

Smurfraka3 votes

Speaking as someone from low elo, Nasus being a low-elo pubstomper wouldn't be such a big deal if his kit didn't feel so toxic to play against. He does the same thing as Tryndamere but worse, because he has infinite scaling (compared to the rage meter), so you have to deny him cs constantly (although unlike Tryndamere, even pushing him under tower doesn't do anything, because he can still CS easily). Combine that with him taking towers in 2 seconds, and the entire game is spent babysitting him in top lane.

His engage pattern is even worse and screams outdated. Point-and-click powerful slow, then walks up to you and clicks Q. Actually struggling with the duel? Just press R. Don't worry about mistiming it, because it lasts for 15 seconds. There's no skillshots, room for nuanced use of abilities, or real outplay potential. Brand Lux and even Jax are low-elo stompers too, but don't feel nearly as bad to play against, because they have room to mess up and be outplayed, and have to think about when and where to use abilities.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

Speaking as someone from low elo, Nasus being a low-elo pubstomper wouldn't be such a big deal if his kit didn't feel so toxic to play against. He does the same thing as Tryndamere but worse, because he has infinite scaling (compared to the rage meter), so you have to deny him cs constantly (although unlike Tryndamere, even pushing him under tower doesn't do anything, because he can still CS easily). Combine that with him taking towers in 2 seconds, and the entire game is spent babysitting him in top lane.

His engage pattern is even worse and screams outdated. Point-and-click powerful slow, then walks up to you and clicks Q. Actually struggling with the duel? Just press R. Don't worry about mistiming it, because it lasts for 15 seconds. There's no skillshots, room for nuanced use of abilities, or real outplay potential. Brand Lux and even Jax are low-elo stompers too, but don't feel nearly as bad to play against, because they have room to mess up and be outplayed, and have to think about when and where to use abilities.

To be honest, all of these things are true in low elo but not true at all in high elo. You yourself acknowledged this and my response to you and any “lower elo player” is simply: at a certain point, you just have to get better. While I have a lot of issues with riots balancing, I absolutely believe they should never balance around players inadequacies.

DUDE BRO2 votes

I recently played a game where enemy nasus free-farmed and had ~400 stacks in 15 minutes, it was insane.

However, he spent the rest of his game being CC'd/kited by our team, and never really got to Q anyone. Even though he was super stacked, it was a non issue because nasus is nasus.

Nyarlathοtep2 votes

I m not a nasus main or an avivid nasus player but..

Number 2, there are many champions that can beat him in duels at this point assuming equal footing. Darius, Aatrox, Yi, Jax, Trynd, Cho’Gath

Darius, yes Aatrox, trynda, cho hell no. None of them can stand up to him when his ulti is up. The only one that has a decent chance of killing him in theory is trynda because of his true dmg through conq and his w. However even then he is shut down hard by nasus wither. Nasus out heals and out damages both aatrox and cho.

Yes, sheen boosts his healing quite a bit but if he builds sheen, he’s still incredibly squishy and prime lane bullies will eat him alive for rushing this

In the case you are not a lane bully then said boost is literally unbearable. Poking him to stop him from farming, only to cast one q and heal for like 20+ hp or so.

Qss is a thing

Considering wither's cd and qss cd, qss ends up being a burden since the stats it provides are bad vs nasus.

Nasus is prone to chain CC

Actually most champs are prone to chain cc.

Jax Q/E, Trynd W/E, Riven’s kit, Aatrox’s Kit, Irelias kit, etc). Why should nasus not have the same capacity when, unlike the aforementioned champions, he doesn’t have mobility at all.

Why? Are you seriously asking why a juggernaut shouldnt have the sticking power of a diver/skirmisher? (aatrox is a mixed case. He is a juggernaut but he has more mobility in exchange of durability)

Saianna2 votes

This nasus change doesn't fix any of his issues (unless you are potato at stacking Q), but only add on the problems if Nasus manages to get someone in his Q range.

So the "boards QQ" makes sense here. He got pointless buff rather than something that makes him better to play.

Doge20201 votes

Amen Brother! This is what people need to see! On some posts when the Q buff was announced I was downvoted to hell when I tried to explain how nasus is still very weak and has a lot of weaknesses that you can take advantage of.

Minimac20001 votes

What are you talking about? Nasus isn't a topic of QQ? Nasus is a topic of qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqrqx2 +16 ;)

FOR JUSTICE1 votes

doesnt warwick have pretty much the same passive but no one complains about it, when warwicks is theoretically stronger XD

AntiSJW1 votes

Your first section before "SO" - Truuuuuu

5050BS1 votes

All Im saying is that Iv seen a Nas Jungler walk out of the Jungle late game with 1000+ stacks.

Thats too much

Toxic Doku River1 votes

I fought a 3,500 hp nasus that had 400 stacks in an aram game. It was so fun cause i was red Shieda with item 3071 item 3812 item 3065 item 3153 item 3047 and conqueror. That nasus didn't even come close to killing me

Noor Sakata1 votes

Yeah honestly In the previous arguments I've seen here in boards , or actually the main Opinion about Nasus here in boards " Nasus is weak , just kite him , he might win Melee fights but he sucks against ranged champions "

Like ok I get it he got a damage buff, but how would he damage a ranged champion if he's easy is kite?

I'm with you about this

Illabethe1 votes

1/2: Don't see anyone arguing this. However, the pool of champions who can counter Nasus has shrunk dramatically with the stack doubling. Illaoi used to have a 55% win rate vs him. Now it's 49%, and face tanking is what she excels at.

Furthermore, the Nasus complaint isn't a LANE complaint. It's about all those Mid/Bot laners who do not have kits to deal with the old Nasus, much less the new, and the particular fact that he is now more of a jungler than a top laner, so all the "trades" you mentioned are moot because they aren't actually the ones fighting him. He dominates mid ganks, bot ganks, and objectives right now.

  1. It actually DOES happen as a jungler. First clear is 183 stacks. in 5 minutes! Second clear gets him near 380, if left unadulterated. If your jungler does not invade and kill nasus over and over in his jungle, he WILL get these stacks, and there's nothing you can do about it. You're forgetting: Large monsters = 12 stacks. Although it wasn't a huge deal right after the buff, now we have Nasus players who have been doing it awhile, and doing it quicker and more effectively.

  2. QSS to remove one slow..... What a smart use..... When it has a 6 second cooldown.

He is not just a good split pusher. He has one of the safest pentakill kits in the game. He isn't as slow as he used to be, as he has migrated to Triforce from building tank, and often has other move speed options as well.

Stop getting in the gutter of "we only care about what happens in top lane." That's not how this works.

Player3421 votes

the highest ranked known nasus main in season 8 was diamond 2. i'm dead serious, he was THIS bad.

buff he received and introduction of rune shards made things a little bit better, but he still weak as hell in high elo

and obviously, we can't balance the game around low elo players, right?

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