Ashe changes are just.....A-M-A-Z-I-N-G

DropFill·Apr 28, 2015·90 votes·7,966 views

Just a short story : A long time ago ( s3 I think ) , I was a adc main. Back into the time where we didn't have Lucian, Jinx, Kalista, etc... When tristana early game was bad. When vayne was a total monster late, but weak as fuck early. A time where graves wasn't picked every single game.... Days when MF and Varus were viable.... Days I will never forget. But I stopped being an adc main when my beloved ones started being....reallly bad.

But this ashe changes? Are AMAZING. Her new passive is what critical strike should be to everyone. She also FINALLY has a steroid. And you know what is the best part? She has 0 mobility. Her most defining weakness ( On jinx is not a weakness because she has 700 range, much more damage, and better steroids ).

Thank you riot. Hope soon, you will do something for Varus, Twitch, Miss Fortune.

139 Comments

A Tall JokeApr 29, 201510 votes

These are the remakes we look forward to-- like the Sion remake. They kept her main identity, her defining characteristics, and the satisfaction of all her spells while making her more modern, more powerful, and better capable of being tuned.

NircApr 30, 20151 votes

and best of all it only took 3 years

Celeste BenalApr 28, 20158 votes

Kiting Queen just got a lot stronger. Use her W to hit the entire team and go straight to 5 stacks. Slows all day. Or just build Runaan's and go straight to 5 stacks. Do not pass go. Do ~~not~~ collect phat stacks.

ModWulf HelhammerApr 28, 20152 votes

Ohmygod runnan's would probably be even better now with the 5 stacks focus, and it now gives bonus damage!

AnysonAcEApr 29, 20155 votes

Not only runnan's but also the new black cleaver? Think about the intense armor shred and WITH THE PHAGE PASSIVE it'll compliment both the kiting ability and the persistent damage aspects that Rito is doing their best to emphasize.

ModWulf HelhammerApr 29, 20151 votes

I know! Ashe has once again become the kiting queen! (also the 5-shot on her Q each apply a stack of BC)

LeeDarkApr 29, 20153 votes

Kalista : muffled snickering in the background

ModWulf HelhammerApr 29, 20152 votes

I have kitted a Kalista nearly to death as Ashe with just my ult to put some initial distance, and then throwing my W out behind me as I walked back to base. The only reason I didn't follow her to get the kill was because I was low on mana and nearly dead, and Kalista was fed (my fault). And to take note: She was full health when this started, and I was really low (and I was not fed by any means). Ashe is THE Kiting Queen, and there is no denying this fact

LeeDarkApr 29, 20151 votes

No, the reason you didn't follow for the kill is because she can jump out of range. Also, the only reason you didn't die at the beginning was her shitty support didn't buy Mikael's for your ult.

So yeah, tell me more about how your unranked experience makes Ashe the kiting queen, when Kalista does it so much better in the hands of the pros. I don't sit here and pretend that my games represent what a champion can do, so why are you pretending yours do?

Loco LittleApr 29, 20156 votes

who do you think you are?

1st Paragraph - You didn't see or play the game, so automatic stfu by default.

2nd Paragraph - You have no idea who Aventel is, you have no right to judge his skill level, again, automatic stfu by default.

And finally, as said before, no one knows who the hell you are, you are no-one, so don't pretend you can go around insulting people and get away with it. You cowardly keyboard warrior.

#Sitting-in-his-own-filth-chatting-nothings-over-the-internet = stfu by default.

Thank you.

LeeDarkApr 29, 20151 votes

[deleted]

Loco LittleApr 29, 20152 votes

You're cute when you're angry.

Edit: You should probably do a bit of research before you post.

LeeDarkApr 29, 20151 votes

I don't need any more research than the simple fact that you posted something and decided that your own words shouldn't apply to you. How about you go back to jerking off to videos of school bullies getting their comeuppance?

EDIT: I really hope you weren't talking about your own rating. Is Silver in the worst region in the game supposed to impress anyone?

Loco LittleApr 29, 20153 votes

Well luckily I've done a bit of research on your postings so I can actually have a cohesive argument beyond 'your division' (which by the way, you say every other post, lolking wasn't the research i was suggesting)

But anyhow, seeing how worked up your getting from a few little insults from some other side of the coin over the internet. Don't you think you could change your attitude a bit? I'm not just speaking about Aventel, I'm referring to all those posts you've done where no one is particularly addressing you or even making a negative statement, and you just take it upon yourself to insult them.

Tell me, because i'm generally interested. When you press the 'post button' do you feel a sense of pride or enjoyment that you've condescended someone? I don't particularly, in fact as you said I only feel I am instigating the very thing I'm trying to prevent in the community.

Hopefully you read all of this and actually understand where I'm coming from and try to improve your attitude towards others a little, not just on league but in general. However if your ways will not be changed:

tl:dr: I'll beat you with any champion in any lane on any map in any game mode.

Loco LittleApr 29, 20152 votes

Edit/ fact checker: I just checked you on Op.gg since you took the liberty of checking me. Your silver 5 with a 50 ratio and have been there since the start of the season. I was silver 5 last week, am in silver 2 promos now with a 66% win ratio. Why are you even using that as an argument?

Also if you mean the LCS, you're talking about 0.001% of the community, not the whole region, such blanket statements.

FourVsFiveApr 28, 20152 votes

So her passive is like a free frozen mallet? sounds OP!

It Hertz When IPApr 28, 201525 votes

That's like saying Brand's passive is a free Liandry's... technically true, but not particularly relevant as it is factored into the kit budget already.

1st HanarSpectreApr 28, 20154 votes

It's easy to calculate gold/power value for something like damage. For kiting it's a lot harder since there are times where it does absolutely nothing and others where it 100% assure that you take 0 damage while dishing yours.

AyRe CoNteMpTApr 29, 20154 votes

her passive doesnt give her 700 hp tho

WumachineApr 29, 20151 votes

that's like saying nasus's passive is a free bloodthirster

Or xerath's passive is a free mana pack

DrCyanideApr 29, 20151 votes

Or Veigar 's passive is a free item 3028

MelledoneusApr 29, 20151 votes

Or Lissandra 's passive is a free... oh, never mind. It gives nearly nothing.

bulldoggamerApr 28, 20151 votes

Holy cow they destroyed ashe. Idk if i will play the rework. She'll be worst adc on the game on release.

WheatloafApr 28, 201510 votes

Wat? The general consensus is they made her better... what specifically do you dislike about it?

bulldoggamerApr 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Wat? The general consensus is they made her better... what specifically do you dislike about it?

The removal or any chance of crit on her. You know, one of the main sources of any adc's damage. They basically made her W worthless and they removed the passive gold on her E, which was arguably the second strongest part of her kit. The new slow from her passive is great, but provided an unfair amount of damage off of her passive shes entirely reliant off of stacking sustain damage, and we all know how good champs like that are right now MissFortune Vayne . She's either going to have broken amounts of damage or be absolute trash. But she overall won't feel like the same champion that we used to play.

junglerboy16Apr 28, 201526 votes

No, instead of a fake crit enhancer (that seriously only helped her once in any fight) they gave her a persistent guaranteed damage steroid that still scales with crit.

LeeDarkApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No, instead of a fake crit enhancer (that seriously only helped her once in any fight) they gave her a persistent guaranteed damage steroid that still scales poorly with crit.

FTFY

NinjaToad99Apr 29, 20159 votes

Mathematically you do the same damage. IE even improves it. So, no, it does not scale poorly with crit. Now instead of not being lucky so you lose a dual, you do consistent damage.

LeeDarkApr 29, 20151 votes

No, it isn't the same damage. Why? Because the first shot doesn't count. The first shot you hit someone with NEVER crits. Now, the longer the fight goes on, the closer to the average damage of an equivalently geared ADC you will get. If you get two shots, you'll do about 80% of the damage that an ADC who gets one crit and one non-crit, and it goes up slightly from there. (Calculated using PD and IE on both ADC's).

Sure, the other ADC could get unlucky and get two non-crits there. They could also get lucky and get two crits in a row and completely blow Ashe out of the water in damage. The point is that because Ashe is guaranteed to NEVER CRIT on someone who is not under the effect of her passive, you will remain slightly behind in crit scaling. You still are forced to build it or fall even further behind, but the fact is that you scale better with attack speed.

7thHeavenApr 29, 20153 votes

Because some ppl didnt know she can crit 1st shot with W

LeeDarkApr 29, 20151 votes

W still has a cast time, making it a significant single target dps LOSS late game, even with it allowing you to get the benefit of your passive. In fact, because they are nerfing the damage on W, it will become a dps loss even sooner in the game.

MidEvilKnight3kApr 29, 20151 votes

She gets a bonus 0.1*Total AD on her pseudo crits to compensate for not being able to crit the first shot. It takes 9 shots to do better than normal. If you proc your passive with w first then you just have an additional steroid based on AD. It does not improve her critical chance scaling because the 0.1 is based on damage, but it helps her damage.

Overall she scales off of critical chance very slightly less than other ADCs.

LeeDarkApr 29, 20151 votes

Slightly less is still less. I've survived encounters with less than ten health before, and I am by no means the only person to have done so. And W still has a cast time. The only time it is worth casting is if the enemy is in range of W but out of range of your auto and you would be able to catch up to them. The rest of the time it is just poke and you aren't getting close enough and putting yourself in danger to get in an autoattack. She still scales better with pure AD and attack speed than with crit.

Aych PiiApr 29, 20152 votes

There's a fairly even chance Ashe will do more damage off auto-attacks alone in a given encounter than any similarly equipped ADC just because her "crits" are guaranteed. Your example of surviving with ten health is less likely to happen because her damage is consistent and can be predicted, as opposed to most ADCs who have to hope they hit crits when they need them.

LeeDarkApr 29, 20151 votes

Which also means there is a fairly even chance that Ashe gets outright wrecked by a string of lucky crits SHE HAS NO HOPE OF MATCHING.

Compare this to her old passive, where she was almost guaranteed to win short trades and could WRECK people at level 1 because luck was on her side. Now, luck can never be on her side. It can only be AGAINST her opponent. And just as often, FOR her opponent.

Aych PiiApr 29, 20155 votes

Don't pretend her old passive wasn't kinda shit. New passive allows her to trade more often and more aggressively, with more consistent results.

Besides, having consistent damage on par with the average damage of someone building crit is pretty crazy, you can predict your damage output better than your opponent and you're not any less likely to win trades, seeing as the luck factor still exists with your opponent's crit chance. There basically used to be two ways for RNG to screw you over, your crits and your enemy's crits, now you do the same average damage but with only one source of RNG to compete against. Sure, you won't have crazy lucky crit strings, but if you shouldn't be relying on those to begin with.

Shro0mieMay 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aych Pii,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gsEnBO9R,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-29T12:55:44.823+0000)

There's a fairly even chance Ashe will do more damage off auto-attacks alone in a given encounter than any similarly equipped ADC just because her "crits" are guaranteed. Your example of surviving with ten health is less likely to happen because her damage is consistent and can be predicted, as opposed to most ADCs who have to hope they hit crits when they need them.

Double PD=90% crit (pro lcs build)

with that being said im supppppper happy with the new ashe changes. pre rework she was simply not fun to play

theragingnerdApr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The removal or any chance of crit on her. You know, one of the main sources of any adc's damage. They basically made her W worthless and they removed the passive gold on her E, which was arguably the second strongest part of her kit. The new slow from her passive is great, but provided an unfair amount of damage off of her passive shes entirely reliant off of stacking sustain damage, and we all know how good champs like that are right now . She's either going to have broken amounts of damage or be absolute trash. But she overall won't feel like the same champion that we used to play.

vayne is and always has been op

bulldoggamerApr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

vayne is and always has been op

Vayne is in no way OP. She has a high skill cap and you have a high potential to outplay if you are good at the game. But OP no. Shes generally always been right outside the top tier of AD carries. And she will probably remain there just because of that skill cap.

theragingnerdApr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Vayne is in no way OP. She has a high skill cap and you have a high potential to outplay if you are good at the game. But OP no. Shes generally always been right outside the top tier of AD carries. And she will probably remain there just because of that skill cap.

right click requires no skill

BoxOfDOGApr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

right click requires no skill

Play ADC some and get some perspective before calling the role "easy".

It's probably not as hard as most other roles, but in no way is it an EASY role.

Cuz1972Apr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Play ADC some and get some perspective before calling the role "easy".

It's probably not as hard as most other roles, but in no way is it an EASY role.

Check his match history, you don't want him playing ADC :p

BoxOfDOGApr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Check his match history, you don't want him playing ADC :p

Everyone has bad games from time to time, asshole.

theragingnerdApr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Check his match history, you don't want him playing ADC :p

dude i may lose most but look at the ppl on mah team

theragingnerdApr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Play ADC some and get some perspective before calling the role "easy".

It's probably not as hard as most other roles, but in no way is it an EASY role.

hope you realize that i do play adc and i do win on it adc is tough on some skill needing champs IE kalista who even though shes op is not that easy

BoxOfDOGApr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Holy cow they destroyed ashe. Idk if i will play the rework. She'll be worst adc on the game on release.

She already was the worst ADC. The only way to go is up.

bulldoggamerApr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

She already was the worst ADC. The only way to go is up.

The worst? Really? First of all her win rate beggs otherwise, but win rate isn't everything, and i know this. Quinn Varus MissFortune Twitch Can you really say those champions are better at adc for the average player?

BoxOfDOGApr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The worst? Really? First of all her win rate beggs otherwise, but win rate isn't everything, and i know this. Can you really say those champions are better at adc for the average player?

Twitch shouldn't be on that list. Twitch is AMAZING. He has CC, an escape, an attack range buff, and true damage dps.

Quinn is good.. She's just sorta.. Not fit for bot. Varus' only problem is he's immobile MF is just plain bad right now

Ashe's problem is that she had a lot of utility, but no actual dependable damage. Her W in it's live state is easy to dodge, her Q costs mana PER SHOT, and her passive is super unreliable. Don't get me wrong, as an ADC main I've had amazing games with Ashe.. But you really just gotta be better than your opponent in general for that to happen. Either way, the changes are happening, so speculation is kind of pointless at this point.

bulldoggamerApr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Twitch shouldn't be on that list. Twitch is AMAZING. He has CC, an escape, an attack range buff, and true damage dps.

Quinn is good.. She's just sorta.. Not fit for bot. Varus' only problem is he's immobile MF is just plain bad right now

Ashe's problem is that she had a lot of utility, but no actual dependable damage. Her W in it's live state is easy to dodge, her Q costs mana PER SHOT, and her passive is super unreliable. Don't get me wrong, as an ADC main I've had amazing games with Ashe.. But you really just gotta be better than your opponent in general for that to happen. Either way, the changes are happening, so speculation is kind of pointless at this point.

That is true. And now that i've seen the numbers scalings a how the passive works precisely i do see alot of potential. A big plus is that volly will cost less mana than before as it has been replaced as her primary damage dealing ability. I will just miss that passive gold. Alot.

And quick question. What is twitch's escape? His q gives him good assassination potential but it fails terribly as an escape, provided you aren't in range of being damaged.

BoxOfDOGApr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That is true. And now that i've seen the numbers scalings a how the passive works precisely i do see alot of potential. A big plus is that volly will cost less mana than before as it has been replaced as her primary damage dealing ability. I will just miss that passive gold. Alot.

And quick question. What is twitch's escape? His q gives him good assassination potential but it fails terribly as an escape, provided you aren't in range of being damaged.

Can't even count how many times I've been saved by Twitch's Q. The windup into invisibility is only 1.5 seconds, so as soon as you run out of range of their autos and/or their abilities are on cooldown, you're home free.