Suggested Botlane Nerfs by an Toplane/ADC Player

AirKingNeo··26 votes·2,706 views

It should be of zero surprises to anyone that ADCs are too strong right now. Certain ADCs do insanity in damage, supports make ADCs unkillable, and bot lane turret has zero fortification (meaning if bot loses early, they lose hard early). Top lane literally has almost zero impact on the game and is, rather a coin flip. Most games for top lane follow these rules: The jungler wins top lane, the better bot lane wins the game. Conqueror didn't change gamepacing at all. Since many board members who love to circlejerk that ADCs are the most broken thing that has ever existed and come up with completely unreasonable nerfs, I've decided to finally give my input as I play both the role who hates bot lane most and bot lane itself.

First thing, remove Fleet Footwork. Seriously, I hate this. It gives early sustain to ADC, making the lane boring. It's so much more powerful than damage runes bot lane (due to how ranged vs ranged matchups work), so it's not like you have a choice of any other rune. It scales with Crit, meaning only ADCs can use it (which is hypocritical, considering the stated purpose of Runes Reforged was to create diversity and choice). The rune also makes kiting so easy and potent that trying to dive an ADC is near impossible.

Item changes I want are actually fairly simple. People have been saying ADC items should lose their movement speed or that it should be unique. Double Zeal ADCs were weak as fuck until about mid-season 7, so why would Double Zeal ADCs need to be nerfed? Clearly, the MS stacking hasn't ever been the issue. Some have said remove it all together. I disagree and think Fleet Footwork being removed fixes the issue on kiting. Some people have said their item costs should go up. I have to ask, "Why?" Why should ADC become shitty early game and still ungodly late game? Then you'll just go back to complaining about ADCs being broken late game and ADC players will complain about feeling meaningless early. You can avoid both issues by just making them not scale as hard. Supports being overpowered makes ADCs even more powerful. Smaller issues are lifesteal on ADCs and how much bonus damage LDR gives (and thus an arms race between tankiness on tanks and ADC damage, but that's another topic that isn't as huge bot lane's agency being too much).

Zeal (and all its upgrades) - Cost increased by 100 gold. -ADC items are a bit too cheap.

Stattik Shiv, Rapidfire Cannon - Passives now cannot coexist (Similar to Mikael's Crucible and Athene's Unholy Grail). -Unhealthy combination.

Infinity Edge and Essence Reaver - AD reduced to 60 (from 70). -ADCs scale too hard.

Xayah - W changed to 20% total AD onhit (from 20% bonus damage). E base damage reduced by 5. Passive damage crits are modified to be 75% AD (112.5% with IE) from 100% AD (125% with IE). -Being an SS Tier ADC for about the past year now, and I have almost 30k mastery points on her so I can say without bias against her that Xayah is really broken. I think her W is fine in lane (besides the w/ Rakan thing), but I find it very stupid with crits boosted by IE, making her autos have a 3.0 AD ratio. -Her E damage in lane lets her clear waves too quickly for lane. She's a late game carry with some of the best base damage. -Passive damage is really stupid with crits and needs to be toned down.

Tristana - Some nerf. I don't play Tristana, so I have no clue.

Kai'Sa - I think she's more interesting jungle, but I doubt they'd revert her attack range just to make her a jungler and keep her base damage, so they'll probably cut her base damage making her not viable in the jungle.

Redemption and Locket - some nerfs to active's strength probably make their passives have the same name so Enchanters can't get both. -Their actives are just too impactful and completely make diving difficult. Having both just makes enchanters unbareable when they're meta (like Lulu). More health to make then unique in the long run.

Ardent Censor, Redemption, and Mikael's Crucible - Heal/Shield Power reduced to 8%/16% respectively. -Having super large shields is stupid.

Janna - I don't play Janna, but probably some nerf to her shield duration Lulu - Probably nerf polymorph to 1.5sec rank 5. Point click 2.25-second effective stun is very dumb. Braum and Alistar - I don't play either, but I know they're broken. Reduce their ability to CC and protect carries from diving.

I just want the game to be more fun, but I don't think ADCs being immortal and scaling so much is very fun, and it reduces the impact other roles have on the outcome of the game.

50 Comments

3411235456527 votes

I agree with everything you said. Infact at one point I believe Infinity edge was at 60 ad while costing MORE than current. Also agree with the Janna and Lulu statements. People act like the "ardent meta" is over but all I see is every enchanter support rushing ardent or getting it 2nd item along with the pathetic "nerfs" to ardent which were just minor attack speed nerfs at early levels lmfao. Lets just hope the "anti-circlejerkers" dont come in and downvote everything.

I also think its really important that people feel free and comfortable with voicing their frustrations on the game without the fear of anti-circlejerkers coming in and flaming. So I hope people take inspiration from this post.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Infact at one point I believe Infinity edge was at 60 ad while costing MORE than current.

IE was bad at that time. Giving it both the cost reduction and the 10 AD made it stupid. Keep the cost reduction, the AD is pushing it too far.

Not sure on Ardent right now really.

Lets just hope the "anti-circlejerkers" dont come in and downvote everything.

I am the anti-circlejerk. I just wanted a reasonable opposition. Think Will McAvoy.

3411235456522 votes

{quoted}

IE was bad at that time. Giving it both the cost reduction and the 10 AD made it stupid. Keep the cost reduction, the AD is pushing it too far.

Not sure on Ardent right now really.

I am the anti-circlejerk. I just wanted a reasonable opposition. Think Will McAvoy.

No I mean the point was, your post is not a mindless circlejerk post but it may likely be treated as one by those people regardless simply because you are voicing a concern about a topic they dont want a concern voiced and would rather try to silence you.

EDIT: Also I didnt mean to derail your post, lets just focus on the issue at hand. Xayah and Lulu allowed to be what they are for over a year.

ampheon6 votes

As a person who frequently uses enchanter supports, Ardent is rushed because it is the most general of the other shield and healing items. Redemption is general as well, but was changed scale harder into the late game, and the AP (which affects both heals and damage) that ardent gives is generally more useful than what health/mana regen/health regen that redemption gives (though it can be a good rush if you plan to semi-roam). Mikeals is only occasionally necessary as a rush item when there is heavy CC.

It kinda has the same problems as old Morello, but less severe. This is largely because there are only 7 enchanter supports, and Rakan who build Ardent, 6 of which would be highly likely to rush it. unlike the several mages who had to live in the monotony of rushing Morello.

TLDR; It's a convenient item, and since its the most general, because all enchanters heal/shield, and all scale off AP (each to a varying degree). Mikaels is highly situational and Redemption takes long to scale, so ardent is the answer

STLDR; Nerf the AP

ChaddyFantome3 votes

{quoted}

As a person who frequently uses enchanter supports, Ardent is rushed because it is the most general of the other shield and healing items. Redemption is general as well, but was changed scale harder into the late game, and the AP (which affects both heals and damage) that ardent gives is generally more useful than what health/mana regen/health regen that redemption gives (though it can be a good rush if you plan to semi-roam). Mikeals is only occasionally necessary as a rush item when there is heavy CC.

It kinda has the same problems as old Morello, but less severe. This is largely because there are only 7 enchanter supports, and Rakan who build Ardent, 6 of which would be highly likely to rush it. unlike the several mages who had to live in the monotony of rushing Morello.

TLDR; It's a convenient item, and since its the most general, because all enchanters heal/shield, and all scale off AP (each to a varying degree). Mikaels is highly situational and Redemption takes long to scale, so ardent is the answer

STLDR; Nerf the AP

I've been saying this for a while, but Ardent itself is fine as is. it just needs more competitor items. Redemption isn't mean't to , nor should ti actually compete with ardent. That was the same mistake Riot made back with Duskblade. They need to introduce a new Enchanter item that builds out of Aether Wisp and Forbidden idol with the same Unique passive, but a different effect (so that they don't stack.) That's the only way to make Ardent not be the most attractive first Enchanter item.

ChaddyFantome2 votes

Also agree with the Janna and Lulu statements. People act like the "ardent meta" is over but all I see is every enchanter support rushing ardent or getting it 2nd item along with the pathetic "nerfs" to ardent which were just minor attack speed nerfs at early levels lmfao.

This is incredibly ignorant. Ardent was DESTROYED compared to its previous state. Old ardent gave lifesteal on hit and did way more damage and gave way more attack speed at early and late levels.

Also, enchanters aren't even the best supports right now. Tank supports are.

saltran2 votes

{quoted}

This is incredibly ignorant. Ardent was DESTROYED compared to its previous state. Old ardent gave lifesteal on hit and did way more damage and gave way more attack speed at early and late levels.

Also, enchanters aren't even the best supports right now. Tank supports are.

Look at his post historial xD, don't expect anything ratioal coming from him, this are the clowns that are upvoted in this Boards.

meowwow76 votes

i'm surprised you didn't throw in rakan over there healing too much and doing too much dmg due to his new ap ratio buffs

AirKingNeo3 votes

Too recent for me to really have data to talk about, nor have I heard much on it.

I know Rakan is top tier this patch for this: item 2065

Hópe4 votes

{quoted}

First thing, remove Fleet Footwork. Seriously, I hate this. It gives early sustain to ADC, making the lane boring

Im fine with this but the problem is Supports items and runes have been heavily strong on Supports. Janna Right now can press W and you will lose a quarter of your health as an ADC. There is no counterplay.

Its W+ Scorch + Spellthiefs + Aery. Brands Ws are nearly unavoidable. Zyra literally wins you the lane. A good Sona is the most oppressive support in the game. Lulus glitterlance will take an ADC to 40-50% in one go. I main support, i DO these things that i talk about.

ADCs cant lose fleetwork because itd make the winning lane snowball EVEN MORE. Do you really want that? Think about it, Less sustain = Less health. Less health means more recalls ( which gives first tower easier ) or less health to fight with = dying faster. Worst mistake would be to nerf something that keeps adcs in lane.

Item changes I want are actually fairly simple. People have been saying ADC items should lose their movement speed or that it should be unique. Double Zeal ADCs were weak as fuck until about mid-season 7, so why would Double Zeal ADCs need to be nerfed? Clearly, the MS stacking hasn't ever been the issue. Some have said remove it all together. I disagree and think Fleet Footwork being removed fixes the issue on kiting. Some people have said their item costs should go up. I have to ask, "Why?" Why should ADC become shitty early game and still ungodly late game? Then you'll just go back to complaining about ADCs being broken late game and ADC players will complain about feeling meaningless early. You can avoid both issues by just making them not scale as hard. Supports being overpowered makes ADCs even more powerful. Smaller issues are lifesteal on ADCs and how much bonus damage LDR gives (and thus an arms race between tankiness on tanks and ADC damage, but that's another topic that isn't as huge bot lane's agency being too much).

I agree witha lot of this.

Zeal (and all its upgrades) - Cost increased by 100 gold. -ADC items are a bit too cheap.

Stattik Shiv, Rapidfire Cannon - Passives now cannot coexist (Similar to Mikael's Crucible and Athene's Unholy Grail). -Unhealthy combination.

Stattik shiv needs changes. Its a burst item intended for a sustain class. Makes no sense.

Infinity Edge and Essence Reaver - AD reduced to 60 (from 70). -ADCs scale too hard.

Ardent Censor, Redemption, and Mikael's Crucible - Heal/Shield Power reduced to 8%/16% respectively. -Having super large shields is stupid.

Janna - I don't play Janna, but probably some nerf to her shield duration Lulu - Probably nerf polymorph to 1.5sec rank 5. Point click 2.25-second effective stun is very dumb. Braum and Alistar - I don't play either, but I know they're broken. Reduce their ability to CC and protect carries from diving.

Support items need to be changed for the whole team rather than just ADCs. But not in a way where adcs are just walking gold sacks for assassins etc. In any elo under diamond, Nobody really should be complaining that top lane doesnt matter because I promise you i have friends who climbed to plat 2 already that are top lane mains.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Its W+ Scorch + Spellthiefs + Aery. Brands Ws are nearly unavoidable. Zyra literally wins you the lane. A good Sona is the most oppressive support in the game. Lulus glitterlance will take an ADC to 40-50% in one go. I main support, i DO these things that i talk about.

Sona is a fucking canon minion with abilities right now so idk.

Stattik shiv needs changes. Its a burst item intended for a sustain class. Makes no sense.

I think the current live nerfs are fine, provided RFC synergy is removed.

Support items need to be changed for the whole team rather than just ADCs. But not in a way where adcs are just walking gold sacks for assassins etc.

Supports just have kits that are best with ADCs right now and ADCs are the best right now. Really more a design point than a balance one.

Ifneth1 votes

Nitpicking, Sona is not a cannon minion by any means: Spellthiefs + Aery + Scorch + Q + Powerchord will chunk about a fifth of an ADC’s health.

AirKingNeo2 votes

and then Fleet will heal half that back....

3411235456522 votes

{quoted}

Support items need to be changed for the whole team rather than just ADCs. But not in a way where adcs are just walking gold sacks for assassins etc.

Ok but are you fine with the current state of picking lulu or janna (mainly lulu) invalidates the entire assassin roster? (not an exaggeration)

Hópe2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ź J,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gsABvMTi,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2018-03-27T01:33:45.249+0000)

Ok but are you fine with the current state of picking lulu or janna (mainly lulu) invalidates the entire assassin roster? (not an exaggeration)

No, if you go through my history you see my posts about how bullshit Janna and Lulu are.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

Lulus glitterlance will take an ADC to 40-50% in one go.

I have to wonder why you are maxing Q on Lulu in the first place tb quite honest.

Hópe1 votes

{quoted}

I have to wonder why you are maxing Q on Lulu in the first place tb quite honest.

It doesnt have to be maxed. Q+ Scorch + aery + spellthiefs chunks.

Also you max W with Janna. Aggression is the best peel.

saltran2 votes

{quoted}

It doesnt have to be maxed. Q+ Scorch + aery + spellthiefs chunks.

Also you max W with Janna. Aggression is the best peel.

For what I've seen most Janna's take 3 points to their W to have a huge poke in lane and then all to the shield.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

It doesnt have to be maxed. Q+ Scorch + aery + spellthiefs chunks.

Yes it does. NOT for the amount you are saying it does tho.

Also you max W with Janna. Aggression is the best peel.

this on the other hand i can attest to, as ive been doing that midlane as janna since season 3. Best yasuo counter, lol.

SpecterVonBaren4 votes

Redemption and Locket don't go well together because they scale with different stats. You're already losing out on a lot if you try to build for both or just one and get less from the other.

Fleet Footwork should just give the movespeed. It's meant to help with kiting, fine, it should not also be a sustain option.

saltran1 votes

{quoted}

Redemption and Locket don't go well together because they scale with different stats. You're already losing out on a lot if you try to build for both or just one and get less from the other.

Fleet Footwork should just give the movespeed. It's meant to help with kiting, fine, it should not also be a sustain option.

It will be absolutely trash and no one would pick it.

ampheon1 votes

The heal and shield power that redemption gives applies to locket

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

The heal of Redemption itself scales with your mana regen and Locket scales with your max health.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Most enchanters still get locket 3rd or 4th.

Enchanters should be easily killable, so I dislike them getting both.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Most enchanters still get locket 3rd or 4th.

Enchanters should be easily killable, so I dislike them getting both.

I mean, redemption has a delay, so it's fine. And Locket is getting changed anyway.

Salson3 votes

Nice post.

Kog might need nerfs as well though, as IE giving less AD doesn't do shit to him.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Have to be a discussion for another day about Rageblade.

Maybe 0.5-1% off his W for Kog.

SenorBobbers3 votes

Since many board members who love to circlejerk that ADCs are the most broken thing that has ever existed and come up with completely unreasonable nerfs, I've decided to finally give my input as I play both the role who hates bot lane most and bot lane itself.

"Tremble mortals, your worthless meaningless opinions are no match for MY input, a wise man who plays both roles"

AirKingNeo1 votes

I also don't circlejerk.

FurriesAreHot2 votes

For Tristana, i’d remove the auto attack buffer on ult, so she can’t deal incredible burst and create a large gap all at once.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Agreed. Also make the knockback based on inverse proximity. Closer champions are knockbacked less.

Wînter Fox2 votes

Some people have said their item costs should go up. I have to ask, "Why?" Why should ADC become shitty early game and still ungodly late game?

Because that's the whole point of the class. Why else would the meta evolve to stick a support with them in lane? Because they were shitty early, and were meant to be shitty early. Supports are there to make up for that historical weakness. Late game teamfights were and will always be "catch the ADC", the problem is they're reaching late game damage by mid game.

Then you'll just go back to complaining about ADCs being broken late game and ADC players will complain about feeling meaningless early.

I wish there was a late game to complain about. And ADCs complaining about feeling meaningless early is like a hooker complaining about how her feet hurt from being in heels all night. It comes with the job.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Other classes have evolved from being only good at X time. Why can't ADC?

Wînter Fox1 votes

Because they're ranged and build AD, Crit, and AS - which are the highest scaling stats in the game that also scale with each other. They are going to hyperscale and be better than all other classes late game no matter what. You have to make them suck early to balance the inevitable godly late game. Unless Riot plans on making all ADCs melee and deleting crit from the game, this has to be the case.

ChaddyFantome2 votes

Redemption and Locket where already changed to be less effective with each other since they scale with different things now. While Enchanters can opt into it, it isn't as potent at all, and i think this is fair. they don't need to be strictly mutually exclusive.

Lulu - Probably nerf polymorph to 1.5sec rank 5. Point click 2.25-second effective stun is very dumb.

Calling Poly a stun is like calling Kassadin's slow a 1 second stun. I don't mind it being looked at but this argument (and change) is terrible.

Lulu has no hard CC in her Base kit. Polymorph is the closest thing she has, and it only works on a single target, and well as has limited application. Unless you wanna buff its effects in some other ways, reducing its duration without compensation is just unjustified.

As for Heal shield power, those number reductions are just overkill, especially when compared to the shoulder tap nerfs you are giving ADCs by comparison.

The first thing i would look at, just as you have with Fleet, is look at Aery's shield bonus first, as i feel it is moreso the root of the issues than simply the numbers. After than, adjust Available Heal/shield power as needed.

After that, I would look at shield durations before looking at their strength.

Shields are supposed to be for blocking burst and poke. Them not being a joke isn't a problem in of itself. If shields last less long, then baiting and timing becomes more important, which has always been the skill expression with shielding to begin with.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Locket is nearly as potent because heal/shield power.

Polymorph is effectively hard CC. She also gets a slow, knockup, speed boost, AS boost, true sight, and a shield. That's a fucking lot.

ChaddyFantome2 votes

{quoted}

Locket is nearly as potent because heal/shield power.

this is simply untrue. Especially after the removal of Sightstone, Enchanters simply don't have the HP to make up for the loss after it was changed last season. Heal/shield helps it but not to the level you are claiming it does. not even close. Also, like i said it another post, this doesn't even really matter since Locket's active is getting changed all together anyway.

Polymorph is effectively hard CC.

No it isn't. Hard CC prevents you from moving. If you use Sudden Impact and Polymorph a target, it does not activate, because it isn't hard CC. It is merely a disarm with a flat MS reduction. It's like a glorified silence.

She also gets a slow,

woopdydoo. So does every Enchanter.

knockup,

Lulu's Knockup can only be made use of by having an allied target that is within relative range of an enemy. This means she can only use it offensively for the knockup effect by flashing into the enemy herself. Otherwise, she requires to use it reactively to an ally or enemy.

By contrast, Janna and Nami can both use their Q however they like for making Picks or interrupting people from a safe distance without hard commitment.

speed boost, AS boost,

which she can only use if she ISN't using Polymorph.

true sight, and a shield. That's a fucking lot.

Im gonna end by saying, it isn't hard to just list everything a champion can do and then just claim its alot.

im gonna use Voli for example, because it is generally agreed he isn't that great, at least from a kti perspective, not a numbers perspective.

_Voli has a speed boost, a Knock back, a slow, Healing abn execute, free attack speed. aoe magic damage low mana costs, mixed damage, and a flip/displacement. _

as you can see, it really isn't that hard, and more importantly, it doesn't' tell us anything about how and why this is a problem.

lastly and my biggest issue is how you intentionally ignore how conditional all these effects are, as well as how hard/easy it is to use any of them.

Lulu for starters not only has low base MS, but short range. if lulu wants to use her E for True sight for example, she has to walk up to the target and tag them with it BEFORE they even stealth, or else she can't actually hit them with it.

Additionally, if she is doing this, she can't shield, so unless the target is running from lulu (even tho she blows up like a balloon and they can more than likely easily 2 shot her), she is unable to protect the ally or herself with said shield.

I could go on, but you get my point.

AirKingNeo1 votes

No it isn't.

I guess you don't know what 'effectively' means. I am more afraid of Lulu's CC than Leona. Think that one through.

......

You tried to rebuttal every single thing Lulu had, when the argument was having it all is what made her broken.

Also, Voli is self healing and is a melee champion...

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

I guess you don't know what 'effectively' means.

Im aware of what it means, but it seems you dont.

a snare is an effective stun. polymporf is not. Its far closer to a Blind or Silence than a Stun.

I am more afraid of Lulu's CC than Leona. Think that one through.

Then you are quite frankly being silly, since Leona has 2 stuns and a Snare, of which can be free aimed and have AoE and easily chained together.

You tried to rebuttal every single thing Lulu had, when the argument was having it all is what made her broken.

Except all you did was list everything she had. You didn't elaborate on why, especially in the way it is incorporated into her kit, her having those things make sher broken.

You just insinuated it is as if it is a given, bypassing having to even explain your stance all together.

Like i said before, the thing about lulu is she can't do any of these things all at once. She has to choose between one or the other. Champions like Yasuo for example or even Jayce/Nidalee don't have this problem. Each of their abilities has an individual cooldown. Lulu on the other hand doesn't. She can't choose to Knock someone up for example without sacrificing the HP buff. She can't Tag someone with Pix without sacrificing the Shield, she can't speed boost someone without sacrificing Polymorph, and vice versa.

Also, Voli is self healing and is a melee champion...

what's your point?

AirKingNeo1 votes

Snares aren't effective stuns. You can still auto attack.

Polymorphs are literally everything but a snare, and instead a slow. It silences, it slows, it disarms. That's as close to a stun as you can get.

Then you are quite frankly being silly, since Leona has 2 stuns and a Snare, of which can be free aimed and have AoE and easily chained together.

Because Leona's CC can be dodged. Because Leona doesn't have a shield to grant on top of it.

what's your point?

Listing everything Voli does isn't relevant because he's completely different from Lulu.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Snares aren't effective stuns. You can still auto attack.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Yes, but it is an effective stun, because it stops you from moving.

The "stops you from moving" part is the key to the effectiveness of a stun.

Polymorphs are literally everything but a snare, and instead a slow. It silences, it slows, it disarms. That's as close to a stun as you can get.

Polymorph is literally just a Disarm and a flat MS drop. It isn't even a real slow in this regard and is less effective than one in terms of slowing enemies is most situations. What you are saying is the equivalent of saying Charm is Literally everything but a snare. It's stupid.

Hell, charms are basically reverse fears, both of which are more potent than polymorph on all fronts.

Because Leona's CC can be dodged. Because Leona doesn't have a shield to grant on top of it.

Leona CC can only be dodged if she is moving in to engage, not when she is being defensive. The only situation where polymorph is gonna cause you all that much problems is when you are engaging on the enemy, and even then it depend sif the fight is in Lulu's teams favor.

By contrast, if you engage on lEona's team, she can just press Q and click on you. it isn't anymore or less dodgeable and worst of all, the follow up is far worse asn she chain CCs you to death along with her Passive. And unlike Lulu, leona can't be blown up. She's a Tank, so you HAVE no choice to deal with her.

Listing everything Voli does isn't relevant because he's completely different from Lulu.

Ignoring how empty of a statement this is, at this point it just comes off as pure personal bias against Lulu more than anything because whether they are the same or not is utterly irrelevant to the point I was making.

AirKingNeo1 votes

The "stops you from moving" part is the key to the effectiveness of a stun.

What the fuck. The effectiveness of a stun is that you can't move, you can't attack, and you can't cast anything.

POLYMORPH COVERS 2.5 OF THOSE THINGS

Polymorph is literally just a Disarm and a flat MS drop. It isn't even a real slow in this regard and is less effective than one in terms of slowing enemies is most situations.

A disarm, silence, and slow.

Ignoring how empty of a statement this is, at this point it just comes off as pure personal bias against Lulu more than anything because whether they are the same or not is utterly irrelevant to the point I was making.

If they aren't comparable, why list what Volibear does?

ZephyrDrake1 votes

I can see zeal items having their price increased I do not see anything else happening

IdveYsUfSK1 votes

Fleet footwork ms bonus should be halfed for ranged. It doesnt even take any effort to kite anymore. The heal also removes the need for adc to spend gold for sustain. Bad adcs can just sit back relax and farm up with the life gain without getting punished. adcs items need their items cost efficiency lowered. Its way too ridiculous as they scale exponentially together and they are allowed to get it super early in the game, while other roles are struggling to keep up with their items. For example the standard shiv/pd + ie/er item combo powerspike. Attack speed has become very overtuned(too cheap) over the years, if the adc knows how to attack move non stop they get so much value out of it. Even im forced to buy adc items for carry junglers to snowball and win games fast its ridiculous. Xayah is actually super broken. Remove the extra feather dmg and reduced back timing with rakan, rakan extra dash range. They dont even need this hidden extra power. Her ult cooldown is way too short with essence reaver rush.

Hügö1 votes

As I agree that fleet footwork is way to strong, simple removing it will make that the losing lane will lose harder as they don't have any sustain.

AirKingNeo1 votes

winning lane you'd have no sustain too...

oortoomeebreesuu1 votes

My concept for completely reworking crit: lower the percent increased damage drastically by making critical strike guaranteed, with each critical strike addition guaranteeing a small percentage increase. Infinity edge passive instead converts all of this bonus crit damage into** true damage. ** Instead of crits for over 900, critical strikes would be down to 200-300 regular dmg, and a bonus 200-300 true dmg, making them less oppressive to squishies while maintaining their tankgasm position. And guess what? If you aren't fighting a huge number of tanks... then you get to stack attack speed and attack damage without feeling like every build is literally copy and pasted before you ever enter the game, see the champion select, see the laning phase...

THERE IS NO AGENCY IN AD CARRY BUILDS. THIS WOULD HELP INTRODUCE THAT.

KlydeFrog1 votes

They already nerfed them when they got rid of Ruby ss.... So yah not gonna happen and why do you care. If supp are soooo strong then play as one

AirKingNeo1 votes

the ability to protect adc isn't related to sightstone.

KlydeFrog1 votes

lol how little you knew of how strong the passive was on it. here is the thing champ item cdr has no cap on it hence why people would take it for the passive and then get the mastery that reduces cdr on active items i think it was called bounty hunter or indigenous hunter. meaning using right glory every 20 sec was op meaning active items were at close to 70% cdr.....as i said how llittle you know

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