Aatrox rework was good, change my mind.

Arcane Blue Boi·Jul 1, 2018·23 votes·11,402 views

I played some new aatrox and im liking it I know its a trend to hate things, but Please try to change my mind And i dont want to hear shit like ''hE fEeLs bAd tO pLaY'', thats not an argument.

feel free

63 Comments

Akali is SO HOTJul 1, 201815 votes

Aatrox's rework was bad.

Did it work?

Arcane Blue BoiJul 1, 20182 votes

You'd make a great salesman.

TheFoxWolfJul 1, 20189 votes

Well, I felt like Gbay made a good point or two in what's wrong with Aatrox's rework, which is to say the character doesn't seem to retain much in spirit of what Aatrox originally was. He feels more like Riven 2.0 than anything remotely Aatrox, save for maybe his ultimate.

https://www.youtube.com/user/gbay99

Arcane Blue BoiJul 1, 20182 votes

While i agree that yeah, aatrox had his whole kit changed, and while i disagree with that, riot seems to love changing whole kits (mah galio and taric ;-;), As i already accepted thats a thing (changing the whole kit exept 1 ability in a rework) and moved foward, this change isnt that weird or lets say, bad in my view. If they gonna revert aatrox because he doesnt feel like aatrox, pls revert swain taric galio urgot, and all old champions whose kits were changed completely

TheFoxWolfJul 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

While i agree that yeah, aatrox had his whole kit changed, and while i disagree with that, riot seems to love changing whole kits (mah galio and taric ;-;), As i already accepted thats a thing (changing the whole kit exept 1 ability in a rework) and moved foward, this change isnt that weird or lets say, bad in my view. If they gonna revert aatrox because he doesnt feel like aatrox, pls revert swain taric galio urgot, and all old champions whose kits were changed completely

While I can't speak for Galio or Swain because I haven't played them I have to disagree with Taric. His kit is different sure, but it still in spirit is conceptually the same as the old one. Taric was an enchanter/tank that gave buffs to his allies, and with the rework I'd explain him conceptually as being the same thing except instead of two his enchantments being passive auras and a single target cast it's been changed to where he uses himself and an ally as a proxy for enchantments.

For Urgot, I don't really know how to define the old one. Maybe a diver-marksman? I'm under the impression that with Urgot the intended idea was to swap between staying back and shooting an enemy down and going to the front-line with his ultimate. With the Newgot that seems to be the theme except he's a juggernaut. We look at his old spell names and his theme seemed to lean more on the high tech scientific abomination side of him than that he used to be a headsman. The new one he flat out executes an enemy with his ultimate so his actual background seems a bit more relevant in the design.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 2, 20181 votes

Revive juggernaut/tank that is very op and usefull when he can stick to targets, but if he cant hes useless and will get kited to hell. Revolves arround his huge amount of lifestealing, while also being fairly tanky. His Q knockups, his W slows and pulls, his E gives him a small dash and lifesteal, and his R makes him revive.

This sounds like aatrox to me..

Tomoe GozenJul 1, 20181 votes

He said the same thing about new Irelia, where his argument there was that he doesn't like her because she's no longer an early aggressor in lane. That's how he used to play League to this day and changing his approach isn't his cup of tea. So he switches champions that still embody the same playstyle.

Don't take his opinion as gospel. Everyone here is biased to a certain degree whenever any change hits Live. This is especially true for champion changes (even new champs) because people are really thick-headed when it comes to finding out/creating new ways in terms of playing League in this day and age.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 2, 20182 votes

so i just found this coment in his video and i agree with major part of the things written here i'll just leave this here Thanks to user Collin Guo

This video is pretty intellectually dishonest and I wish you would make more informative/discussion based content instead of the rants you seem to make nowadays.

First off, your own "rule" for rework success, even if it was a good measure of a rework's success, is poorly applied here. Of course if you mislead and/or outright lie about a kit to make it sound like Riven more you're going to make it sound like a Riven rework. But if you talk about it like a normal person, you get "a 3 part Q that knocks up in a particular part of the aoe, a skillshot W that pulls people in if they stay in a zone, a short dash/ad steroid on E with passive lifesteal, and an ult that buffs you and gives you a revive" you might not think Aatrox but you definitely wouldn't think Riven. Furthermore if you look at the general idea of the kit instead of the individual abilities you get a much better idea of the champion - "a juggernaut that is a strong lifesteal/revive tank if they can get in position but has a hard time doing so" is much closer.

Also, nobody liked aatrox when he was garbage, and he was garbage for the vast majority of his history. In fact iirc you, gbay, said he needed a rework before he was balanced, something about him being left in the dust while irelia was reworked for no reason. Then he started getting balanced, and things were okay, but all his problems were still problems - he's inherently feast or famine in fights because of his lifesteal, for example. Then he started getting broken, and guess what, they're not just going to revert the changes to save aatrox and not ship the rework they've been working on for months, they're going to change him. They planned this rework when everyone, including you, thought he needed it. The only reason for this outcry is because the meta shifted to make him good just before his rework.

Lastly I know people misuse "strawman" often, but from what I can see there's not that many people saying Aatrox was just an autoattack champion and that's boring. Thus a large part of you "refuting" the argument seems pointless to me. Maybe you've gotten a lot of people saying otherwise but at least in the comments here the vast majority of people are saying you are wrong for all the reasons EXCEPT "he was a bad champ because he just auto'd".

I guess I probably shouldn't just say negative things, so I'll say I greatly appreciate the how to train your dragon reference :P that pissed me off too, and I can understand feeling upset over something like that.

PhDs NutsJul 1, 20187 votes

He's a trash design. You can't lane against him because his damage is super overtuned, and he becomes useless after lane phase because he's kited to shit. He's a more extreme version of Illaoi.

Edit: This is literally his problem right now lol. 6 days later and it's starting to be noticed.

Binding EclipseJul 1, 20187 votes

You can't lane against him ~~because his damage is super overtuned~~ if you're bad at dodging

That being said, I'm okay with the rework. I played a lot of old Aatrox back in The Day and had a really good time of it, and I'm satisfied playing with and against him right now. I wouldn't be upset if they lowered his damage in exchange for a little more flexibility with his Q, but I get why it is the way it is, and I'm content.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 1, 20182 votes

What jhintuition said. All his abilities are skilshot, thats the same as complaining about catcher supports ''in lane impossible to play agaisnt (if you dont dodge) and after that they fall off', so therefore all catcher supports are bad i guess

MYSTlCFLOWJul 1, 20186 votes

why would he feels bad to play, not be an argument? it's not as if riot made a completely new champion, they reworked a champion that people have spent 9999 hours playing, any time they rework a champion that didn't NEED a rework into something completely different (new aatrox apparently doesn't use autos, and can choose when he gets to revive) , it's objectively a bad rework, they could have just as easily made a completely new champion. like old urgot, why isn't old urgot still here? name ONE person who was saying "urgot is too overpowered, played way too much" yeah sure people were asking for urgot reworks because almost nobody was playing him, but the FACT is that riot could've as simply made a second champion that does exactly what the new urgot does.

and for me personally the zac rework, was never asked for. NEVER to my knowledge, he didn't NEED IT. and it turned him from a fighter who COULD go FULL AP and still be viable because of his damage and mobility, who could easily carry a game getting triples 1v3 if fed. To an IMMOBILE(compared to his previous ultimate) FULL TANK(otherwise not viable) champion that even when 13/0/7 at 20:00 CANNOT EVEN 1V1 GET A SOLO KILL unless it's against a marksman or he ults the enemy into his turret. went from mobile ap fighter/tank carry, to tank team reliant un mobile. literally the best and maybe ONLY argument that can be made is that the champion isn't fun to play anymore FROM MAINS WHO HAD MASTERY 7+ AND ONLY PLAY LEAGUE FOR THAT SPECIFIC CHAMPION.

look. aatrox went from having his revive into his passive, to being able to control when it goes off (I think I haven't played him) and apparently went from relying on auto attacks to - never doing auto attacks?, his Q has like 3 hits? which is completely different to his old dash, the rest of his ability's I have no clue. but if you can't understand that he's bad BECAUSE MAINS DON'T LIKE PLAYING HIM ANYMORE then there is no "convincing you". riot should've just made a new champion. that or let people pick old/new aatrox, old/new galio, old/new zac with a different picture to clearly show teammates and enemies which one is being picked, and when one version of them is banned the other version is also banned

hE fEeLs bAd tO pLaY is legit one of the only arguments that matters, because it's not a NEW CHAMPION, it's a REWORK, TAILORED TO MAKE MAINS OF THAT CHAMPION HAPPY. and when it fails to do that. the rework was a failure

MicbranJul 1, 20186 votes

but he does feel bad to play, his kit feels like literal trash

Kai GuyJul 1, 20185 votes

Aatrox rework was Great for increasing his skill cap and making him a ability reliant champion. His kit is not remotely as clunky as folks claim on gameplay and its laughable when any one says Riven 2.0 after a single match with him.

However to accept and win your challenge let me state that Some of the lore choices, visuals, and VO changes are mediocre or very disappointing to those who liked the Old Trox thematically.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 1, 20181 votes

I was only speaking in terms of gameplay. I agree with you on the arts aspect. His voice sounds goofy, instead of dominant. Thats one thing i noticed i prefered the old one

That said, my original point was only about gameplay. Because i dont think (like you) that he is as clunky as people say, and he is not to be compared to riven. He has got a very different playstile.

SugeMinPikkJul 1, 20184 votes

His in-game model is stiff and ugly.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 2, 20181 votes

subjective, doesnt count.

SugeMinPikkJul 2, 20181 votes

Everything is subjective.

Last avatarnameJul 1, 20184 votes

It is a pretty ok champ for a completely new champ. The problem is he is a rework in the same way that bread is a rework of tomatoes, they have nothing in common with each other.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 1, 20183 votes

By that logic, we must also bash on taric swain galio urgot etc, who also had their whole kits reworked. Riot already made clear they're going down that path. That is not specific to aatrox. For that reason, i still think it is good.

Last avatarnameJul 1, 20183 votes

I do think Galio and Taric screwed over their mains(swain kept enough imo, I played him before and after the rework and he kept his ult with a small change his w with a change and they still gave him similar gameplay patterns).

But they have champs like Warwick and the previous Aatrox mini rework that show that they are willing to take the path to change not everything.

They let Ryze keep his bullshit on target snare 3 reworks in a row to keep consistency with the previous version of Ryze.

You can say riot is not going down the path, but if you clearly show favoritism to certain champs that were notoriously broken(like Ryze and Warwick) and completely ignore all the things for others because you don't like them as much is horseshit.

Just because something is the norm doesn't mean that it is not bullshit.

It is true that Aatrox got a bigger bs storm but that is for 2 reasons.

Nobody felt that this champ was worthless anymore in the last patch and people started to see how good he was.
Aatrox was actually way better designed then people at first thought when they started playing him.

So I don't particularly care that riot said that they were going down this path because:

It still removed a favorite champ for players without compensation or potential to trade in the champ if you don't like him now(which is bs in all reworks if you ask me)
That they also did this to others doesn't make it better for the players that like the old aatrox
All the examples you mention were considered bad from a rework example by the communities that played them.
They have shown that they can do better and did better with old champions.

In short: he did need a rework, so they removed him, they playerbase that loved him before this will not like him now because they kept nothing of him. I find it fair to say that from a rework perspective this is nothing diffrent than removing the champ and introducing a new one.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 2, 20181 votes

I agree that its unfortunate that the rework came in this patch. Wrong timing. It was refreshing to see aatrox being played in LCS.

Why is nobody making similar complaints about the champions i mentioned, they got hit by the same bat. And i disagree with you with swain. I loved the first swain, then they gave him slight changes on Q and R. ok fine. Still like him. And then, where is beatrice, where is his cane, where is his personality, where is this DoT mage that also heals. Swain is on my top 3/4 deleted champions in reworks.

Last avatarnameJul 2, 20181 votes

There are unfortunate reasons for all of them to be ignored.

##Taric https://www.reddit.com/r/taricmains/comments/88ts7z/what_do_you_guys_think_about_the_taric_rework/

Taric was kinda old and everybody thought of him as a meme, most of the community ignored his rework and the mains seem to actually like him reworked. Also they upped the meme factor on Taric to insane levels, making his new character incredibly liked.

##Swain https://www.reddit.com/r/SwainMains/comments/7z0ule/we_have_to_unite_and_stand_together/

Swain got a lot of hate from the old mains(also sorry you dislike him, you make good points that I never really thought of). Riot Games had the luck that people hated playing against him and knew that non-mains wouldn't truly care. Riot made use of the fact that he was a niche pick and kinda manage to slip it through without complaints from the rest of the community.

##galio https://www.reddit.com/r/galiomains/comments/5xvddo/the_rework_looks_like_shit/ https://www.reddit.com/r/galiomains/comments/8s5dw9/how_a_roaming_ult_made_galios_rework_a_failure/ https://www.reddit.com/r/galiomains/comments/5zxfj2/official_confirmation_that_you_do_not_exist_in/ Galio mains got hit really hard, they despised the rework and fought for it to stay. The few posts that made it onto the mainboards pretty much went ignored or died out. Also just like the Aatrox rework there were people that liked the new champ: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/4z3OTa0z-galio-the-colossus-thoughts-for-5-galio-mains

##Aatrox Aatrox got lucky he got screwed at a point were more mains then ever got involved:

Riven mains got involved because at first, it seemed that riven looked like new Aatrox causing the community of riven to complain with the rest of them. The riven community is pretty big so that gave Aatrox a lot of wind in the complaint sails.
Again he got like a lot of new mains, as an Aatrox main from 1 year ago it was bizarre hearing thousands of people saying they knew he was op since he was reworked.

The truth is I don't like these reworks that much, I like to play them but they are often really shitty for the people that loved them.

When they fully remove a champ like that I consider it a bad habit by Riot that they could easily prevent. Often the champs get ignored instead of trying the smallest of fixes.

they ignored simple fixes like making yoricks old ghouls clickable or the galio taunt actually working 100 percent of the time.
They left all of them without even trying minor reworks like they did with Aatrox.
They gave no single fuck about the old players leaving them even with a reimbursement for the champion they lost and they could easely and without much of a loss give them:
a chest as compensation
a skin for the champ
a rework reroll where they can change the champ for another if they truly don't like them(can be disabled after a few games).

And all this together is why I find the Aatrox rework not that good. He made the same mistakes of other champs and they removed everything for his mains. They got nothing in return and that makes him just as bad as any other of the heavy reworks out there in my opinion.

I don't say that the rework is bad because they changed him, I say it is bad because after all this time and all the mains that dislike the champs they were given they still don't give a fuck about that.

I like riot games, but the way they handle reworks is by far my least favorite part of it.

That too counts for the Darkin man.

BLACK REALM GODJul 1, 20183 votes

i like him. his early game is designed for dueling and his late game is designed for team fights. if you get ganked early you're screwed. if you get abandoned after you dive the enemies you're screwed.

his Q is powerful on its own and rewards skilled players for landing it correctly with insane damage.

his E has utility and his kit doesnt force you to run or fight. you can do both now. the damage bonus rewards skilled players for correctly comboing their Q and E.

his W grants his kit much needed lockdown potential so now he's no longer a 2 pump chump. he can force an opponent to disengage which helps with trades.

his R fixes his auto revive by requiring thought as when to activate it and punishes careless use. It also rewards allies who help protect their aatrox and gives them a massive model change so it's not even remotely likely that an ally will be confused.

his P gives him dueling potential that was lacking in his previous kit by countering an opponents healing with actual strategy and not just out heal their heal.

you can still build him auto attack based and it is freaking hilarious fighting warwick among other champs.

jungling is eh but works.

his theme of undying warbringer is still there. i fail to see the lack of it. in fact it makes more sense now than it ever did before. before you were countered instantly by tabi and grievous wounds. god help you if your opponent bought phantom dancer, thornmail, and tabi. might as well be executing yourself with each hit. you'd be literally forced into the avoider of war instead of the bringer of war. idk about you but i like not having to splitpush mid game to end game on the off chance that i could escape with my Q should they happen to figure out im alone in a lane.

i dont like his new pizza triangle torso, but everything else is fine.

Wild GeeseJul 1, 20182 votes

I like a lot of it, the voice is great, the visuals are good (could be better...), I find he's pretty good to play, decently strong.

Though the more I play him the more I realize your third Q is everything, all the damage, all the Cc. and all your other abilities just complement it.... Yes you have abilities to stay alive and move around; and that's nice but it's not as interactive, they don't do much on their own.

He's not designed to be able to do multiple things. He's good at just one thing, his third Q. I just can't call this one a good design.

My Waifu VanillaJul 1, 20181 votes

Still better design than where almost all of his kit was revolved around auto attacking. Passive+W+R were all completely useless unless you were only auto attacking.

Wild GeeseJul 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gs3EEE1A,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-07-01T10:57:00.446+0000)

Still better design than where almost all of his kit was revolved around auto attacking. Passive+W+R were all completely useless unless you were only auto attacking.

Don't agree, his skills had multiple purposes, the new one is one dimensional...

For instance his old q could be used to engage, disengage, deal CC, combo. The new Q is a damage dealing ability with cc.

I could go over them all but just look at it, old Aatrox was actually more versitile.. He wasn't a great design, was really pretty bad, but why go with what's at best on par or to be generous, "slightly better"? Remakes should be a marked improvement.

BoilTheOilJul 1, 20182 votes

I mean he does feel bad to play, sure you can do stuff at level 5 and below but after that you don't do anything he just feels so shitty. His passive needs a fix so its like jarvan's where the cooldown goes player to player. His Q needs a part where you can recast it so that you can dash mid Q swing. His W needs to actually do something instead of having people just walk out of it. His E is hardly an ability, an unnoticeable dash and an attack damage boost that last for 1.5 seconds with a tacked on 20% healing, his spell should get reworked. His ultimate doesn't really fit his kit that much I think it should have a second part to it maybe so he can have more than one damaging spell. lastly I don't like how his kit is LITERALLY NOTHING LIKE OLD AATROX WHAT THE FUCK at least try to keep some shit jesus christ might as well just delete the fucking champion from the damn game and name him Faaketrox.

kurnubegoJul 1, 20182 votes

Well, the original design was terrible stat check champion, so it wasn't that hard to make it better. Although I like the new concept. Question is did they got the numbers right. I suppose he will receive some tuning in upcoming patches.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 2, 20181 votes

He can get tunned, but i wouldnt agree

A. People dont know how to play as him yet. Everybody i play against executes their combo differently, and nobody really knows when to W. B. People dont know how to play against him. Because he is new, nobody knows what to expect. Damage foresight=0

Tomoe GozenJul 2, 20181 votes

I feel like Aatrox has damage where he actually needs it.
When people group up in one spot, i've had chances to ult and triple Q and wipe out the team but ultimately, i feel like his entire combo isn't getting faster as the game progresses and when everyone's as strong as him, the usual is that Aatrox loses into said matchups because he can't engage properly and gap close.

Still think he's pretty good, just that people need more time to learn his kit and efficiently work around it. I'd rather not see Riot preemptively rush to buff him.

Legacy HydralphaJul 1, 20182 votes

Been playing new Aatrox too, and starting to warm up to it. I feel it has potential to be great, but its release was a total flop and in the next few weeks players should practice more with new Aatrox and Rioters should consider QoL buffs.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 2, 20181 votes

I feel he really could use some QoL buffs yeah.

xelakerJul 1, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I played some new aatrox and im liking it I know its a trend to hate things, but Please try to change my mind And i dont want to hear shit like ''hE fEeLs bAd tO pLaY'', thats not an argument.

feel free

"change my mind" "don't give me giant reason X" ok. Riot has made tons of qol changes to champs because something didn't feel good to use

My Waifu VanillaJul 2, 20182 votes

Except "feeling bad to play" is a complete opinion. I personally greatly enjoy the kit and feels like it flows well. Who is wrong? Me or you? The answer is neither because both are opinions because "feeling good" is subjective and cannot be measured. The ONLY problem I have at all with his kit is his ultimate is incredibly weak where you tend to pop it and either die right after it expires or you die early and get a mediocre heal compared to 50% (which you can only really get for the last 2 seconds or so). His ult should've just worked like Swains where the blood well fills on how much damage you do with it and it stays in combat or at least rapidly drains. You can lose the AD and movement speed or whatever after 12 seconds, but the blood well itself should stay and decay over time at least to the point that it auto empties after X amount of seconds.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 2, 20181 votes

As i said, BAD is a feeling. Know what feelins are? SUBJECTIVE. You wont change my mind with YOUR feelings, rather, i'd like to hear FACTS.

remakoroJul 1, 20182 votes

His walking animation looks absolutely derpy. Instead of Harbinger of destruction. Herald of the last days. World destroyer. He looks like village idiot with huge stick. Change my mind.

ChaddyFantomeJul 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

His walking animation looks absolutely derpy. Instead of Harbinger of destruction. Herald of the last days. World destroyer. He looks like village idiot with huge stick. Change my mind.

he looks like he has a stick up his ass.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 2, 20181 votes

I hate the arts part. his voice, his walk, everything looks more on the derpy side than the serious side, and i dont like that. My post, even tho i forgot to mention that, was only about gameplay.

remakoroJul 2, 20181 votes

Well visuals are part of the gameplay experience. His kit sits okay with me but his visuals are absolute turn off. Previous Aatrox was pretty anime-like. His animations. His model. His splashes. His abilities. His voice.

This one looks like something that someone who heard about anime once from his weaboo hating friend would make without actually seeing any material that served as inspiration for the original Aatrox.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Well visuals are part of the gameplay experience. His kit sits okay with me but his visuals are absolute turn off. Previous Aatrox was pretty anime-like. His animations. His model. His splashes. His abilities. His voice.

This one looks like something that someone who heard about anime once from his weaboo hating friend would make without actually seeing any material that served as inspiration for the original Aatrox.

Gameplay as in kit. Sorry to not make it clear.

Malevolent MetalJul 1, 20182 votes

The worse part of his rework is his clunky'ness. He feels bad to play as! Even if they made him deal 20% max HP per Q he would still feel bad to play as. Look at Urgot, his player base still is extremely small even tho he has insane stats, he has damage oozing out of him but that does not make up for how clunky and boring his kit is.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 2, 20181 votes

I dont find urgot's kit clunky and boring, and i've mained him for a week in ranked flex now. I also dont find aatrox's kit clunky.

The EcdysiastJul 1, 20182 votes

The only bad thing about the Aatrox rework, and you'll find it extremely hard to disagree with this, is the timing of its completion.

Aatrox had been the bottom of the barrel for basic-attack based fighters for years. Most notably because Xin Zhao didn't have to pick between the healing or damage on his W, which was equal to both of Aatrox's. Even when Sated Devourer was in the game, Aatrox was still outshined by everyone else.

Even the removal of Blood Price's cost didn't help-- until Conqeuror. Aatrox shot up in performance and play rate, and even saw play in LCS. Not in a small part due to the almost complete removal of ranged auto-attackers from professional play.

So the one time Aatrox was at the very top came unintentionally right before his imminent rework. It's unfortunate for people who liked to play Aatrox (read: "liked intentionally being weaker than Xin Zhao so they didn't feel like their champ was OP"), because it was the first time since his initial release that he was strong. And since it had nothing to do with his healing being pre-rework Vladimir overpowered, it might have stayed for a while.

But Conqeuror will get nerfed eventually. There's no way 20% damage conversion to true is gonna fly for much longer. Then Aatrox would've been shot back down to the bottom while his contemporaries went back to using Press the Attack. So a month earlier, before Conqeuror, or a month from now, when it gets nerfed, and he wouldn't have been in the sweet spot.

lil kodaJul 1, 20182 votes

"he feels bad to play" is an argument, ur fucking retarded

Arcane Blue BoiJul 2, 20182 votes

bad is subjective bad is how you feel you wont change my mind based on how you feel about a certain something, because we've already established you feel X and i feel Y. If you, however, present me reasons to how he feels ''bad'', i may look into those reasons and reconsider my opinion.

VICHEL CHAOSJul 2, 20182 votes

I'll just list a number of flaws he has: -If his ultimate charges up to max, it lasts so little that it is easy to let it wear off and then kill him without him getting any benefit from it. (Possible solution, maybe heal him when ult expires by a certain amount) -Ont the topic of his ult, dying after casting q1 will ensure that once you revive you have absolutely no way of fighting for about 5 seconds (Possible soution, refresh his q cooldown upon reviving) -If you get hard CCed after casting q1 it will go on cooldown (if the stun +delay are more than 1 second) and you will not be able to fight until it goes back off cooldown. (possible fix refund a percentage of cooldown depending on unused casts) -Using e to land q1 will leave you without any option to hit q2 unless the opponent walks toward you or you hit them with w preemptively. (Possible fix, remove the internal cooldown between dashes) -Using e to land q2 will leave you unable to land q3 like the previous point. -You can walk out of w from the short side without boots and from the long side with tenacity boots. (Possible fix, increase w slow especially at lower ranks) -In teamfights he is mostly useless if the opponents have any clue of what to do against him, mainly waiting for q1 to be cast and then using a cc on him basically takes him out of the fight for its entirety. -Gets outscaled by almost every other toplaner unless he got extremely ahead in laning phase, he cannot duel anybody who is even moderately apt at dueling and in teamfights any tank has better and more reliable disruption and can shut Aatrox down, ensureing he will never get a chance at getting to any sort of priority target. -Basicaly only works in that brief period where peple playing him are starting to understand him while most enemies don't know still how to deal with him (disengage after q1, engage once its on cooldown)

Arcane Blue BoiJul 2, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=VICHEL CHAOS,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gs3EEE1A,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2018-07-02T06:40:42.042+0000)

I'll just list a number of flaws he has: -If his ultimate charges up to max, it lasts so little that it is easy to let it wear off and then kill him without him getting any benefit from it. (Possible solution, maybe heal him when ult expires by a certain amount) -Ont the topic of his ult, dying after casting q1 will ensure that once you revive you have absolutely no way of fighting for about 5 seconds (Possible soution, refresh his q cooldown upon reviving) -If you get hard CCed after casting q1 it will go on cooldown (if the stun +delay are more than 1 second) and you will not be able to fight until it goes back off cooldown. (possible fix refund a percentage of cooldown depending on unused casts) -Using e to land q1 will leave you without any option to hit q2 unless the opponent walks toward you or you hit them with w preemptively. (Possible fix, remove the internal cooldown between dashes) -Using e to land q2 will leave you unable to land q3 like the previous point. -You can walk out of w from the short side without boots and from the long side with tenacity boots. (Possible fix, increase w slow especially at lower ranks) -In teamfights he is mostly useless if the opponents have any clue of what to do against him, mainly waiting for q1 to be cast and then using a cc on him basically takes him out of the fight for its entirety. -Gets outscaled by almost every other toplaner unless he got extremely ahead in laning phase, he cannot duel anybody who is even moderately apt at dueling and in teamfights any tank has better and more reliable disruption and can shut Aatrox down, ensureing he will never get a chance at getting to any sort of priority target. -Basicaly only works in that brief period where peple playing him are starting to understand him while most enemies don't know still how to deal with him (disengage after q1, engage once its on cooldown)

I agree with everything you said. He is a new champion, he could use some quality of life improvements. Some things that REALLY annoy me are the interactions with Q and other stuff, like ccs and his ulti. Though i thought of instead of refreshing Q, let him keep using where it let of, lets say you q1->revive-> q2 q3 instead of q1->revive->q1 q2 q3

VICHEL CHAOSJul 2, 20181 votes

Idk about him really. I gave him quite a chance, but some of these get extremely frustrating to deal with, enough to ruin my experience with the champion. Mid and late game teamfights against a support that knows how Aatrox works is the worst, I remember this Lulu who kept disabling me after Q1 and I couldn't do anything, it was extremely frustrating, and I was extremely fed from laning phase. 7-1 but completely useless.

Sure, riot can buff his numbers until he is at the desired winrate, but unless they deal with the huge usability issues that plague the champion he will never feel fun, at least for me. That is why I consider this rework to be bad, because of antisynergies within the kit and usability issues. Don't get me wrong, im not saying it did not go in the corect direction, but the end product feels frustrating. Idk, just my thougts.

Ahv QuinnJul 7, 20181 votes

Want my opinion? The reason why this rework is bad is because it reeks of hypocrisy. Riot had a "Poppy Policy" for years, stating that if pre-rework poppy ever became good, she was getting insta-nerfed. It was because she had one spell that was deemed to be "too good," and her entire kit had to be balanced around it. We see it in other champions, this shifting of power from one spell to multiple. Aatrox's old W was the spell that gave Riot headaches, to the point that the declared him a "stat-check" champion. But what's actually changed? TBH, the thing most people seem to be neglecting to mention about the reworked Aatrox and the old Aatrox is he still has just one busted spell, only now it's his Q. So why have a philosophy of reworking champions to allow for more interesting kits, if all of his power still rests in one spell at the end of the day? It makes him very difficult to balance beyond adjusting his numbers, and hey, would you look at that, we're right back to a stat-checking champion. He requires way too much precision for the payout he gives. (Except for the 3rd component of his Q. That's easy to hit.) It makes him like this weird love child between Riven and Aurelion Sol (Hey, look, another champion that Riot's said has sub-par design) with way less utility. To the subjectives: his W is fairly poor in 1v1s, he can fall off quite hard, is flash-reliant, V/O is waay to chatty, his greatsword-pointing-forward-stance looks silly, his passive procs feel awkward to properly utilize, and even with the AA-reset granted to his E in midpatch 8.13 it still handles awkwardly.

Change my mind.

(In all fairness, there are some fun moments to be had with him. Quite frequently, he's just frustrating to use.)