More nerfs for armor items? I don't think they can get any cheaper.

hashinshin·Aug 1, 2015·30 votes·3,081 views

2400 gold for frozen heart, 2100 gold for thornmail. The tried and true strategy of removing stats and reducing the price on armor items has reduced them to a critical low in cost. 2850 gold for Omen.

Maybe you could try... adding cost to them? I know Riot has literally never (not even once) increased the price on a tank item, but maybe you should try it.

Also, you already tried nerfing all armor items before. It lead to nobody playing melee and double mage meta (both times you tried.) Third time is the charm, I guess?

68 Comments

buster kitonAug 1, 201530 votes

We'll have assassins back just in time for worlds. We already got Elise back last patch, all we need now is some Lee Sin buffs and we'll be ready to go.

Vistha KaiAug 1, 201517 votes

Don't forget about annual Corki buffs for Worlds.

DJ Di0Aug 2, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=buster kiton,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=goaMzQqP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-01T17:19:42.659+0000)

We'll have assassins back just in time for worlds. We already got Elise back last patch, all we need now is some** Lee Sin buffs** and we'll be ready to go.

Ew...

AuryielAug 1, 201514 votes

They're buffing MR items

sigh

Because apparently AD carries are not strong enough already. They HAVE to be the only source of damage on a team.

You have a support, a jungler who is almost always a support for the ad carry, a mid who is either a support that does some damage or an anti ad carry and a top laner who's either yet another support for the carry or an anti ad carry

Fucking AD carry role

IcyPepperAug 1, 20153 votes

And no matter how the meta changes, who's almost guaranteed to go bot lane?

Kuroi86Aug 2, 20155 votes

Because going over 155 armor and cutting an ADC's damage in half is still incredibly easy. Meanwhile dealing with magic damage in top lane is an exercise in frustration unless you're playing Galio

AuryielAug 2, 20152 votes

Cutting a mage's damage is not only easy, but building health also makes it exponentially better because of how limited magic damage is compared to physical damage

If a few champions in top lane are abusive, they can just be nerfed to an appropriate power level.

Kuroi86Aug 2, 20154 votes

Cutting a mage's damage is not only easy, but building health also makes it exponentially better because of how limited magic damage is compared to physical damage

Because you can obviously build straight armor and never need health?

If a few champions in top lane are abusive, they can just be nerfed to an appropriate power level.

Chogath Galio Kayle Malphite Maokai Mordekaiser Poppy Rumble Ryze Shen Shyvana Singed Vladimir Yorick Teemo

Oh sure, lets nerf all possible magic damage dealers, because swinging the nerf hammer wildly has proven such a wise decision in the past. Lets just do that instead of implementing some needed changes, I'm certain you know better the state of balance in this game than the people that make this game and spend their days working to balance it.

CrettAug 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Because you can obviously build straight armor and never need health?

Oh sure, lets nerf all possible magic damage dealers, because swinging the nerf hammer wildly has proven such a wise decision in the past. Lets just do that instead of implementing some needed changes, I'm certain you know better the state of balance in this game than the people that make this game and spend their days working to balance it.

This isn't about straight out nerfing magic damage, too. It's about nerfing magic damage to tanks and bruisers building MR. There is a method to Riot's madness, but I wish AD wasn't so powerful

AFK PushAug 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This isn't about straight out nerfing magic damage, too. It's about nerfing magic damage to tanks and bruisers building MR. There is a method to Riot's madness, but I wish AD wasn't so powerful

Yeah, this season they have been reworking every role and their itemization. Which I think is a good thing, but the order in the way they do it is bad. They're leaving the ADC items etc for after worlds, so us bruiser/tank players might have some problems if they're actually nerfing us and making them stronger. I guess we'll have to wait and see what new items we get. Hopefully an item that will make these changes more bearable.

Kuroi86Aug 2, 20151 votes

This is simply because AD itemization was done so long ago, if memory serves it happened before the supports got their items reworked. Now they've hit the jungle and mages, working on bruisers and tanks, then they'll get around to revamping the AD itemization again to fit in with the changes they made before.

Part of me is praying that with the AD itemization changes that item 3652 makes it's way to SR. This would be a MASSIVE blow to crit builds and would throw some much needed power into on hit builds which would go a LONG way towards killing the stale crit meta surrounding ADCs.

CrettAug 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Because going over 155 armor and cutting an ADC's damage in half is still incredibly easy. Meanwhile dealing with magic damage in top lane is an exercise in frustration unless you're playing

Last Whisper + masteries = 41% armor pen. Frozen Heart's 100 armor is more like 59.

Kuroi86Aug 2, 20151 votes

Hmm... quick numbers crunch.

Mk, so with last whisper you need around 155 armor to make the 100 true armor mark. Add in masteries and it bumps it up to around 170 armor to hit the 100 mark.

I'm not sure what word to put on it, simply put, despite the armor reduction, once you hit a certain point, your armor is still worth 100 armor, which cuts physical damage in half.

CrettAug 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

They're buffing MR items

sigh

Because apparently AD carries are not strong enough already. They HAVE to be the only source of damage on a team.

You have a support, a jungler who is almost always a support for the ad carry, a mid who is either a support that does some damage or an anti ad carry and a top laner who's either yet another support for the carry or an anti ad carry

Fucking AD carry role

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

ChaoticPineconeAug 2, 20151 votes

Well, they just buffed AP itemization (for the most part) so it seems reasonable to buff MR. Those who buy MR can now fight against the AP carries like they used to. Those who dont still get blown up like now.

AbyssphereAug 1, 20152 votes

I guess this is what happens when ADCs whine about tanks making them useless all year long.

Don't forget MR items are getting buffed though. So if anything you're gonna be seeing a lot more Talon, Zed, Kha, Jayce and so on. Full AD meta, woo.

IcyPepperAug 1, 20154 votes

But... armor wasn't the huge issue, especially considering item 3035 exists. They even buffed BORK

A Miss FortuneAug 1, 20152 votes

They've buffed BoRK like a billion times. Even indirectly.

YumaS2AstralAug 2, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=goaMzQqP,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-08-01T23:33:46.396+0000)

They've buffed BoRK like a billion times. Even indirectly.

And that's because Vayne is balanced. Imagine if she wasn't. ** sarcasm mode off **

A Miss FortuneAug 2, 20152 votes

A lot of people actually think Vayne is balanced.

Probably because they try to 1v5 with her by ult-tumbling into the middle of their teamfight.

SAVE YOUR TUMBLE FOR REPOSITIONING NOT YELLING "IM GOSU AKUBAR!!!1"

AnidanAug 2, 20151 votes

Vayne would be balanced if the flat true damage is removed. It's worth mentioning that most fotm champions aren't mind-blowingly overpowered: it's usually a combination of a long time since nerfs, AND fitting into the meta very well. Vayne has both at the moment. The tank meta is the time for Vayne to shine, but her flat true damage allows her to impale her silver bolts right up the ass of an ADC or APC just as hard, if not harder, than tanks, which, given her niche, is not okay.

HadesBladesAug 2, 20153 votes

Well actually Vayne wasn't top tier during the heart of the tank meta, she actually came in as the signal that they are falling off. Vayne like squishes more than tanks I believe, especially immobile squishes which are coming back :)

gl0hs0zgfAug 2, 20154 votes

Do you really think 60 extra true damage (at max rank, no less) will matter when we're talking about squishies? Especially when she builds crit and AD, allowing her basic attacks to deal TONS OF DAMAGE to people who are not building defensively? The real reason she can tear into ADC's and APC's hard is because of the boatload of AD she gets from the items she builds and her ult, not because of 60 extra true damage EVERY 3RD AUTOATTACK.

Sure, reducing or removing the flat true damage might work if Riot wants to nerf her, but it's really not a big deal. People need to relax and get off Vayne's...

A Miss FortuneAug 1, 20151 votes

item 3035 item 3071 item 3142 item 3153 for everyone!

HadesBladesAug 2, 20151 votes

item 3134 T-T WHAT ABOUT ME

Duke AnaxAug 2, 20151 votes

take a closer look its there item 3142 but I guess you'd need to include item 3714 too.

HadesBladesAug 2, 20151 votes

TBH i honestly forget about this item since I never really jungle or build item 3142

ChaosThiefAug 2, 20152 votes

all planned to make FOTM to allow them to rework her

In all seriousness though, buffing MR items alongside nerfing armor will make assassins return.

Kuroi86Aug 2, 20151 votes

Akali Fizz Katarina Leblanc Nidalee Annie Syndra

YumaS2AstralAug 2, 20154 votes

{quoted}

From which when Syndra and Annie became assassins?

Kuroi86Aug 2, 20153 votes

Considering how fast they can drop damage, I figured they were worth including.

HadesBladesAug 2, 20152 votes

Except they lack all of what fizz akali kata leblanc and nidalee have.... can you guess? thats right a Dash (well really fizz and kata have a jump per say but still its like a all in dash)

kJsAug 2, 20151 votes

You're all forgetting the item that AP Assassins needed!!!

#DFG

Linna ExcelAug 2, 20151 votes

Good riddance to that item.

Kuroi86Aug 2, 20151 votes

Maybe, but guess what a buff to MR will do?

HadesBladesAug 2, 20151 votes

Not much except bring back more zed, talon, play. And also increase void stuff buys and magic pen items like haunting guise.

Zair UmbrasAug 2, 20151 votes

Why would it bring back assassins? Almost all Assassins are AP.. Only AD Assassins that don't require their opponents to be COMPLETELY out of position are Zed and Talon. lol. Twitch could potentially get a buff because of this, though I've never seen any ADC have issues with armor late game. Most AD Assassins have 2nd or 3rd item as LW and even with armor being nerfed slightly, they'd still need it. Difference between 120 and 150 armor isn't as much as people want it to seem prior to a LW. 120 is 54.5% reduction, 150 is 60%. 5.5% damage difference. Later on, it'll become more prominent, but one big armor item won't be losing much unless they destroy it, which they won't. They have no reason to make armor be much lower than what it is considering how many champs reduce armor... J4,Wu, Xin, anything with a cleaver, etc.

If Mr items are buffed, every AP Assassin is pretty much getting screwed. Completely. They've kept MR as something low because there isn't any % MR reductions in the game yet outside of a Void Staff. You can currently total 50 Flat MPen and 39% MPen. This is 20 flat from runes, 15 from boots, 15 from Liandry's. From there, you can reduce their MR by 20 as well with an abyssal. Beyond that, there isn't many MR reductions. There's a few like Amumu and Fiddle's passives for flats and %'s would be Kog's Q and Kayle's passive. Since Soraka and Morg both lost their own MR reducers, there isn't much left, which is why there's so little magic resist in the game. There's too little reducers and the new Abyssal they're working on is utter garbage at reducing Mr unless they fight lasts for 8 seconds or MORE since it does 5% reduced MR every 2s. Yeah, every 2s.... That means to get to a noticeable 20%, it takes 8 damn seconds. Most fights don't involve some one standing directly next to a tank for 8-12s.

Biff ManlyAug 1, 20151 votes

Nerfing armor makes more people play Mages?

Explain how this works.

RenailleAug 1, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Biff Manly,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=goaMzQqP,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-08-01T19:41:55.667+0000)

Nerfing armor makes more people play Mages?

Explain how this works.

Bruisers suddenly can't get tanky enough to be useful.

Ser GarlandAug 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Bruisers suddenly can't get tanky enough to be useful.

MR is getting stronger. I doubt Mages will be a thing.

ZarxisAug 1, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Biff Manly,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=goaMzQqP,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-08-01T19:41:55.667+0000)

Nerfing armor makes more people play Mages?

Explain how this works.

ADCs are omni-present. Melee top laners (fighters) have to build some armor to survive reaching the enemy ADC. (They also appreciate armor in lane because they receive minion aggro.) Weaker armor = dead fighters. Meanwhile, mages can build Zhonya's and avoid being in the enemy ADC's range between casts.

Hard4HamstersAug 1, 20151 votes

I think that they will probably be focusing on redistributing the costs of defensive items along with some stat changes that would benefit fighters more than tanks. For instance Frozen Heart is more obviously a Tank item whereas Randuin's is more of a Fighter oriented item. So increasing the cost of Frozen heart while lowering the cost of Randuin's (with possible tweaking of the stats). New items are being added as well and MR items are probably getting buffed (I'm thinking Hexdrinker). So with all of these things in mind, I'm thinking there might be better itemization for fighters specifically while it might hurt pure tanks a little bit.

CasterGilgameshAug 2, 20153 votes

thats not fair why hurt the tanks?

Hard4HamstersAug 2, 20151 votes

I'm not necessarily agreeing with it, but right now. Tanks just outclass fighters as they have more CC on average and similar damage when building the same items. If items favor fighters over tanks, a resurgence in fighters may occur over the tanks we have been used to seeing (even though the tank meta is currently falling out of flavor already). We'll see what happens.

Interestingly, if you consider diminishing returns on resistances, tanks shouldn't be hurt very much if some items have a little less armor. They should be focusing on building a lot of health to compliment their resists rather than stacking armor/mr (unless you are facing certain champs like Vayne). I'm thinking the items that are going to be affected are Randuins, Frozen Heart, IBG?, Frozen Mallet, Hexdrinker, and possibly SV/Banshee's. They have announced 1 or 2 new items could be added as well, which I'm thinking might be a new Atma's and a new gapcloser item. I'm not sure what exactly this will entail, but it should be interesting. I'm excited for the changes and it should be interesting what happens.

CrettAug 2, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=MyNamesAmsToki ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=goaMzQqP,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2015-08-02T03:40:17.046+0000)

I'm not necessarily agreeing with it, but right now. Tanks just outclass fighters as they have more CC on average and similar damage when building the same items. If items favor fighters over tanks, a resurgence in fighters may occur over the tanks we have been used to seeing (even though the tank meta is currently falling out of flavor already). We'll see what happens.

Interestingly, if you consider diminishing returns on resistances, tanks shouldn't be hurt very much if some items have a little less armor. They should be focusing on building a lot of health to compliment their resists rather than stacking armor/mr (unless you are facing certain champs like Vayne). I'm thinking the items that are going to be affected are Randuins, Frozen Heart, IBG?, Frozen Mallet, Hexdrinker, and possibly SV/Banshee's. They have announced 1 or 2 new items could be added as well, which I'm thinking might be a new Atma's and a new gapcloser item. I'm not sure what exactly this will entail, but it should be interesting. I'm excited for the changes and it should be interesting what happens.

SIMILAR DAMAGE?! SIMILAR DAMAGE!!!!!!!!!!! Trundle > Malphite Darius >> Amumu Shyvana >>> Nautilus !!!!!!!!!!!!

this could be interesting though. i do hope an atma's comes out, but i also hope AD items get some nerfs (hopefully not the kind that brings us back to season 2 tho)

AFK PushAug 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

SIMILAR DAMAGE?! SIMILAR DAMAGE!!!!!!!!!!! > >> >>> !!!!!!!!!!!!

this could be interesting though. i do hope an atma's comes out, but i also hope AD items get some nerfs (hopefully not the kind that brings us back to season 2 tho)

Late game Amumu will probably be able to outdamage a late game Darius, just by being able to get off everything (cc), very good base damage, tons of aoe, and being able to survive the encounter by being hella tanky.

AnidanAug 2, 20151 votes

That AoE %health damage is no joke, man o.o

AFK PushAug 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That AoE %health damage is no joke, man o.o

Lol someone downvoted me. They don't respect the sad mummy late game.

AnidanAug 3, 20152 votes

Never underestimate the sad mummy late game. He will wreck your shit for disrespecting his damage.

Say what you want about Darius vs. Amumu, but Darius' main goal is to fuck one person up at a time; Amumu is going to wreck your whole team at the same time.

Loken StoneheartAug 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=MyNamesAmsToki ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=goaMzQqP,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2015-08-02T03:40:17.046+0000)

I'm not necessarily agreeing with it, but right now. Tanks just outclass fighters as they have more CC on average and similar damage when building the same items. If items favor fighters over tanks, a resurgence in fighters may occur over the tanks we have been used to seeing (even though the tank meta is currently falling out of flavor already). We'll see what happens.

Interestingly, if you consider diminishing returns on resistances, tanks shouldn't be hurt very much if some items have a little less armor. They should be focusing on building a lot of health to compliment their resists rather than stacking armor/mr (unless you are facing certain champs like Vayne). I'm thinking the items that are going to be affected are Randuins, Frozen Heart, IBG?, Frozen Mallet, Hexdrinker, and possibly SV/Banshee's. They have announced 1 or 2 new items could be added as well, which I'm thinking might be a new Atma's and a new gapcloser item. I'm not sure what exactly this will entail, but it should be interesting. I'm excited for the changes and it should be interesting what happens.

There are no diminishing returns on resistances.

"t is a common misconception that armor has diminishing returns.

Imagine if every character started with 100 health. If this was the case, then health itemization would behave essentially identically to armor, including the value of each point. Each point of armor gives the same bonus - if 50 armor increases your survival time by 2 seconds, then 100 armor will increase it by 4.

There exist items that pierce a % of your armor/MR, but it is linear in a vacuum. The reason people claim it had diminishing returns is because the % gain from a linear bonus decreases as that value increases. That is the same with nearly every stat, though. Even damage or crit chance experience this phenomena when they are increased in isolation."

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=441938

Its kinda hard to explain since its not exactly whats perceived, but every point of armor is essentially worth the same as the last. Each point of armor increases your survival time by the same amount as the last.