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I think before we comdemn Vayne to the nerf bats, BORK should be looked at first.

Remlap1223··4 votes·893 views

Look, I get it, Vayne's currently the most popular champion right now. And yes, despite her supposedly having a weak early game and having a moderately high skill floor, she's at a much higher win rate than she should. However, I think that the issue here is BORK, not just Vayne.

BORK has been unbalanced for a long time. It's just the tank meta and the meta favoring burst AD casters over hypercarries kept the item from being looked at. Riot may have nerfed the active portion of it, but the passive portion's scaling is what's really breaking the item right now, especially its broken synergy with sated devourer.

Because I get the feeling somehow that if Vayne is just dumpstered without looking at BORK, you're going to see a lot more "protect the Kog'Maw" team compositions. Oh, and Kog'Maw, I shoulda mentioned that too. Lucian will probably make a comeback too.

Teal Deer, I think Vayne's biggest problem is how stupidly OP BORK is at the moment. Just nerfing Vayne to sate the boards' bloodlust is just going to have her replaced with another hypercarry or two.

16 Comments

Dedrius2 votes

Bortk is the only thing that allows AD champions to do any damage in this meta.

Remlap12231 votes

I'll take Last Whisper for 2300 Alex.

Dedrius1 votes

If a tank builds item 3143 item 3083 item 3102 item 3065 item 3075 then just having a last whisper isn't going to help you melt through their 4k+ health, you need the 8% current health damage of item 3153

JustMyBassCannon2 votes

{quoted}

Look, I get it, Vayne's currently the most popular champion right now. And yes, despite her supposedly having a weak early game and having a moderately high skill floor, she's at a much higher win rate than she should. However, I think that the issue here is BORK, not just Vayne.

Well, lolking.net and champion.gg show her around 50.5-51.5% win rate, which is understandable for a champion that is very much favored by the meta.

BORK has been unbalanced for a long time. It's just the tank meta and the meta favoring burst AD casters over hypercarries kept the item from being looked at. Riot may have nerfed the active portion of it, but the passive portion's scaling is what's really breaking the item right now, especially its broken synergy with sated devourer.

Well, I can't say I completely disagree with that.

BotRK's main competition is the Bloodthirster, which has 80 AD and 20% Lifesteal. BotRK has 55 less AD and 10% Lifesteal in exchange for the passive, active and +40% bonus AS.

In order for the passive to make up the damage difference, it has to deal 55 physical damage, which requires a target to have ~688 HP. For the average DPS of BotRK to match up with BT, ignoring the bonus AS, the target needs to have about double that much HP, or 1375.

When you get into Crits, then BT has a 110-point damage advantage over BotRK, meaning the target needs to have 1375 (2750) HP to deal the same damage.

Even with Infinity Edge bumping BT to 137.5 damage bonus, BotRK needs a target with ~1719 (~3438) HP to match.

All of that calculated without accounting for the bonus AS or the active.

Having said that, this is somewhat intentional. BotRK is meant to be the more offensive Lifesteal item, while Bloodthirster is mean to be a more defensive option, and better for champions that have more AD scalar kit components.

BotRK could probably handle a nerf, so that it doesn't appear to be overwhelmingly better than BT. Unfortunately, the best nerf they could apply--reducing the AD on the item--doesn't seem feasible as Riot doesn't like making items have lower stats than their components if they can help it.

Because I get the feeling somehow that if Vayne is just dumpstered without looking at BORK, you're going to see a lot more "protect the Kog'Maw" team compositions. Oh, and Kog'Maw, I shoulda mentioned that too. Lucian will probably make a comeback too.

Teal Deer, I think Vayne's biggest problem is how stupidly OP BORK is at the moment. Just nerfing Vayne to sate the boards' bloodlust is just going to have her replaced with another hypercarry or two.

Honestly, Vayne herself could use at least one nerf; specifically, the flat true damage on her W has always bothered me. Yes, she'll be dealing more total physical damage to an opponent if they're squishy enough for the flat damage to make a big difference, but she could do without that base damage entirely.

CancerNoobUseles1 votes

vayne is a fucking cancer champ togheter at cancer vayne mains if you nerf botrk only vayne can use that item while balanced and healthy champions like twitch kog and company will be in the trash

Prospector Pete1 votes

Teal Deer?

Dreadlocks1 votes

TLDR sound it out buddy.

Prospector Pete1 votes

That's what I thought but I wasn't sure.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

they could at least revert the last buff and remove the lifesteal from the passive again. it made even thornmail not much a of a counter to adc anymore, since the bork passive doesnt trigger the thornmail passive.

Remlap12231 votes

Honestly, I'm ok with the passive being affected by lifesteal, just nerf the damage on it. Up the flat damage to 30 and nerf the current health damage back down to 6%.

Crowe Stalker2 votes

I think before they revert the lifesteal from passive change they should attempt testing to remove the base lifesteal on the item. I personally like how the new attached fantasy of item 3153 is 'Stealing Vitality from Tanks' but stacking with item 3072 is ridiculous in terms of lifesteal and makes duelling champions like Vayne absolutely ridiculous because no matter what you are doing you are stealing Obscene amounts of health.

Basically make it work more like what they did with item 3152 , which is no longer just 'Hey, more Spellvamp, AP and CDR' but is now more focused around Duelling Tanks who have MR to counter base Spellvamp values.

Celeste Benal1 votes

BotRK is fine. It is fine on everyone except anyone with Sated Devourer. Vayne has other issues relate to her HP-scaling True Damage passive. She could build anything with AS and do tons of true damage. It just so happens that BotRK also has life steal, AD, an activated MS theft, and a finishing strike; all things that any AD or on-hit champ values.

Marthian1 votes

and a current HP% on-hit.

O Fallen Scholar1 votes

I would nerf her attack speed scaling back to original value. Then wait couple of months.

If things stay the same, BotRK is next on the list. I mean, this item triggers Vayne so hard. No other champion triggers so hard than Vayne does with that item.

Lafouboy1 votes

{quoted}

Look, I get it, Vayne's currently the most popular champion right now. And yes, despite her supposedly having a weak early game and having a moderately high skill floor, she's at a much higher win rate than she should. However, I think that the issue here is BORK, not just Vayne.

BORK has been unbalanced for a long time. It's just the tank meta and the meta favoring burst AD casters over hypercarries kept the item from being looked at. Riot may have nerfed the active portion of it, but the passive portion's scaling is what's really breaking the item right now, especially its broken synergy with sated devourer.

Because I get the feeling somehow that if Vayne is just dumpstered without looking at BORK, you're going to see a lot more "protect the Kog'Maw" team compositions. Oh, and Kog'Maw, I shoulda mentioned that too. Lucian will probably make a comeback too.

Teal Deer, I think Vayne's biggest problem is how stupidly OP BORK is at the moment. Just nerfing Vayne to sate the boards' bloodlust is just going to have her replaced with another hypercarry or two.

Or we could just leave her and BotRK alone until the meta shifts, because once it does they are going to lose a lot of their power/influence in games.

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