Lethality and You (TL;DR at bottom)

Radiant Wukong··8 votes·1,098 views

Lethality item 3147 item 3814 item 3142 isn't broken.

The 3 items that give lethality give 18 each. 18 * 3 = 54 Precision gives 6 lethality. 54 + 6 = 60 Runes give 24 lethality. 60 + 24 = 84 lethality (flat armor penetration)

Janna has 84 armor. Without an investment into armor, she effectively has 0 armor if attacked by a lethality built champion

Here's a list of champions with less than 84 base armor at level 18 in descending order of armor value down to 65.5 Alistar Mordekaiser Zilean Zac Galio Fiora Lissandra Quinn Corki Taric Yasuo Syndra Nunu Nidalee Caitlyn Jinx Graves Lulu Jayce Draven Ivern Xerath Velkoz Ezreal Brand Leblanc Varus Urgot Fiddlesticks Ahri Karthus Fizz AurelionSol Jhin Kindred KogMaw Vladimir Elise Ashe Riven Garen Kalista Warwick Ekko Jax Khazix Kassadin Ziggs Sivir Malzahar Olaf Gangplank Tryndamere Vayne Sona Shen Xayah MasterYi MissFortune Lucian TwistedFate Twitch Sion Trundle Tristana Rengar Ryze Zyra Taliyah Azir Heimerdinger Orianna and Mini-Gnar

If your champion is on this list, you effectively have 0 armor against lethality builds if you don't invest gold into the armor stat. This means you have 0% damage reduction, translating to you taking full damage from every physical attack.

I'll use MonkeyKing as my example to give you an understanding. Wukong's base AD at level 18 is 114 item 3147 65 item 3142 55 item 3814 55 item 3026 40 item 3812 80 (sometimes I go item 3078 instead) That makes his total attack damage = 354 Transalation = You take 354 damage per AA

Q = 539 E = 531 Duskblade = 360

EQ with duskblade proc'd = 1430 damage. You're going to take the full 1430 damage The actual proper combo is E > AA > Q > AA

E > AA > Q > AA > = 2138 damage

Without an investment into armor/health (which most assassins/mages/marksmen builds lack), there are only 11 champs with the base health to survive that; Alistar Tryndamere Darius Yorick Udyr Galio Trundle Zac TahmKench Shyvana Illaoi

This doesn't include the following; 410 true damage from summoner 14 250 magic damage from Decoy 268 magic damage from Thunderlord's Decree

Many of champions make better usage of lethality builds such as Talon Khazix LeeSin Pantheon Zed since their comes as burst.

TL;DR Lethality isn't OP or broken, start building armor.

23 Comments

MrHaZeYo3 votes

Interesting. Did you take account for armor runes?

Silvykins2 votes

you have a good point if he didn't when you add in the 9 armour from armour runes which are pretty basic for almost every champion these days that would eliminate half of his list of champions with 0 armour against the base lethality stats by dropping the 84 to 73. Which actually backs his point even more that lethality is not broken.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

A lot of things actually aren't broken, it's just the masses think it is so they use it a lot, which cause the rest of the masses to believe it is to powerful.

Evêñtfûl Hôrïzôñ2 votes

But then when we build armor, they build a Last Whisper item. [zombie-nunu-bummed] I honestly have no problem with Lethality, it's just the damage on Duskblade (at least, before the hotfix) was way to high.

xMisuto1 votes

you think the dmg is fine now talon/zed/kha? nothing changed only 20dmg soon to be 40dmg... as adc i dont die by right 100% hp but more like 2skills + auto they still have 3 other and maybe more duskblade procs if i might survive haha....

Evêñtfûl Hôrïzôñ1 votes

I never said the damage was fine. I just said I knew it was too strong before the hotfix, and I haven't seen it enough yet to determine whether it's still too strong or not.

Let's not forget how it was designed to be an assassin item, yet ADCs are building it.

Silvykins1 votes

Just remember that the queen of lethality Miss Fortune was using these items even when they were considered non meta items and she is using it because her abilities thrive off of it so yes ADC's are building it

Evêñtfûl Hôrïzôñ1 votes

yet ADCs are building it.

Uhm, I just said that? Why are you repeating what I just posted?

Silvykins1 votes

the way you wrote it, it sounded like you were saying they shouldn't so I just gave an example on why they are building it.

Evêñtfûl Hôrïzôñ1 votes

I'm saying Riot buffed it for assassins but ADCs are getting the benefit of it.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

item 3147 isn't 65, its 55

xMisuto1 votes

I fully agree creat post btw love the calculations!

But building ninja tabi one every adc i play cuz that's the only slot i have to fill is no fun i want my berserkers! (or GA but i wont get it early-mid cuz you need power spikes). So what do you suggest you do as an adc? Yes get the ninja tabi result in 10 champions building ninja tabi what a great decisionmaking... remove the other boots already who needs them?!

nm10101 votes

Buy item 1031 for 800g and sell it later for 560g. Think of it like picking up an expensive dorans that stops you from feeding like no tomorrow! Scaling armor runes are also a really effective option if you have some safety early in the game.

Radiant Wukong3 votes

{quoted}

I fully agree creat post btw love the calculations!

But building ninja tabi one every adc i play cuz that's the only slot i have to fill is no fun i want my berserkers! (or GA but i wont get it early-mid cuz you need power spikes). So what do you suggest you do as an adc? Yes get the ninja tabi result in 10 champions building ninja tabi what a great decisionmaking... remove the other boots already who needs them?!

My advice for marksmen is the exact same every time... stay near your support. I've never seen a marksman die from a lone burst champion with their support nearby. Supports should be full-time shadows until a nexus is destroyed.

xMisuto1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Radiant Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gYlOgFMH,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-07-20T03:07:59.099+0000)

My advice for marksmen is the exact same every time... stay near your support. I've never seen a marksman die from a lone burst champion with their support nearby. Supports SHOULD BE full-time shadows until a nexus is destroyed.

^they should be yes.... this aint lcs buddy :'(

khorney1 votes

they made knights vow for a reason or do what i used to do and just build hourglass instead of ga...sure i played as varus but hourglass was better....let me explain further there was this rengar who was whoopign my asss even with my supp....one day during the match i built hourglass.....rengar did nothign to me so and he died..... so whats the moral of the story

Chief Mayonnaise1 votes

A lot of support mains on these boards would disagree with you, even if it's not wrong. ^

xMisuto1 votes

they are going to make it stronger for melee and weaker for ranged champions that will change alot tho. Still everygame is filled with ninja tabi to make the game playable... why do we even have other boots ??

NLGG3R BEATER1 votes

I miss the days when I could build item 3006 on MasterYi Xd

Shahamut1 votes

The problem is that still means against say, a bruiser, who has around 200 armor or a little less, your lethality build still ignores between 45-50% of my armor...

If you are someone like wukong, you also have armor shred on your Q...

Add black Cleaver and you get even more % armor pen and max cdr.

I think lethality is slightly overtuned atm...

Oh, and bruises like Renekton become assassins. I empowered Q'd a squishy for 2/3 their health... I think it was a Fiora, not sure.

Shablagoo1 votes

Mages do the same thing man stop pretending like lethality is the most overtuned thing rn man, ppl dont even go full lethality its better to run full ad and go duskblade rush assassin have bust so if they dont oneshot you bruisers beat you because they have more dps then you. That is the trade off of this burst build its you have to kill them fast or they will kill you in the long run.

One Ashe On1 votes

Real problem is the damage proc of duskblade. You disapear one second and you can proc it again. Its rinse and repeat. I dont mind the damage but it need a cooldown.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

scaling armor runes, precision runes, and movement speed quints. the only items you need. glyphs are debatable.

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