RGN shouldn't been a thing in a game with a serious balance, and crit chance is a blatant RGN that gives burst damage to champion clases that shouldn't have burst damage.
How long is this issue going to be ignored?
nm101022 votesI made a thread with hours of work analyzing problems that crit causes and offered a solution. A bronzie told me random chance makes the game fun and that fixing numerous problems caused by crit is not worth removing the fun from the game. I gave up trying to make posts with extensive math and analysis on how to improve the game after he was agreed with by these boards.
Kloqdq5 votesLink that shit dude. I like them facts if people got them.
EkyonKun2 votesIf it's of any interest, I myself made a post including fixes for champions that rely on crit as a mechanic (
etc) on top of removing the 'chance' of crit chance.
nm10102 votesSorry I was out for the night, jungle taliyah posted the main thread. I believe it spread over into a secondary thread for another week or so after that where I went into fringe cases like yasuo, trynd, zed, ashe, etc. I'll edit this when I am actually at a computer.
Turns out there was two, my initial thread is a little brief. A lot of the fringe cases and specifics are discussed in those threads.
Guttler1 votesI'd like to see your post also.
HarrowR1 votesOkay,make a thread with hours of work how you would replace crit with something that would do the same amounts of damage as lets say a dps mage like cassiopea or orianna and ill listen,untill then ill just assume people want crit removed and not replaced with anything so they can shit on adcs cause why not,also if you want to make adcs only effective against tanks and not squishies then you would literally erase both the tank and adc player base cause no one would play either one,A) Adc,cause you would only be effective against one specific champion,while against 4 other players every other class would be better and B) Tanks,why would you play a tank that has a hard counter if you see your enemy pick adc? You could just pick another mage,who the adc wont be effective against but who is effective against everything,if an enemy picks a tank you'd still be better of picking a mage or assassin
nm10102 votesThis is why I've just started blacklisting EUNE players on sight. You didn't read the thread that is linked and started spouting some nonsense about what you 'assume' I want.
higura2 votesOkay,make a thread with hours of work how you would replace crit with something that would do the same amounts of damage as lets say a dps mage like cassiopea or orianna and ill listen,untill then ill just assume people want crit removed and not replaced with anything so they can shit on adcs cause why not,also if you want to make adcs only effective against tanks and not squishies then you would literally erase both the tank and adc player base cause no one would play either one,A) Adc,cause you would only be effective against one specific champion,while against 4 other players every other class would be better and B) Tanks,why would you play a tank that has a hard counter if you see your enemy pick adc? You could just pick another mage,who the adc wont be effective against but who is effective against everything,if an enemy picks a tank you'd still be better of picking a mage or assassin
the whole point of removeing crit is to stop adc's from bursting (which they shouldn't be doing), by removeing it does it leave options open to buff attack speed, so it's really not hard to compensate for.
i don't really get why you think no one would play tanks, if anything, would it make, not just tanks, but pretty much every class more important, because the ADC would no longer be this golden cow that can just burst everything down around them with no issues, but insted, be apart of the team where all members matters.
also, as long as the objective of the game is "destroy towers to get to nexus" will ADC always be meta, because they hands down, has the best pushing power in the game, infact it is this the very reason, ADC's have never been non-meta, even doing "ADC 2017 LOL" and removeing crit will not change how fast they can destroy a tower.
Doomsday Judge16 votesCrit chance as it is now adds an unwanted lucky factor to the game. This is the exact reason why dodge chance got removed.
HarrowR1 votesUnwanted lucky factor that you survive cause the adc doesnt crit?
Sole Soul of Sol5 votesOne could argue that Critical Chance is an essential part of the game, and removing it would be as impactful as removing CDR or lifesteal. It keeps fights spicy, giving the ability to turn a duel around in the time span of a single attack. Critical Chance just fits in league as smoothly as movement speed. [katarina-love]
Poske4 votes[{quoted}](name=Soul Of Aurelion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gNZohUqt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-17T15:48:09.508+0000)
One could argue that Critical Chance is an essential part of the game, and removing it would be as impactful as removing CDR or lifesteal. It keeps fights spicy, giving the ability to turn a duel around in the time span of a single attack. Critical Chance just fits in league as smoothly as movement speed. [katarina-love]
Mechanics such as
Every third auto attack crits Every third auto attack crits starting with second Every third auto attack crits starting with first
Could replace crit chance
You could control crit implement those 3 examples in 3 items which zeal builds into.
And we could handle / restrict combinations. Having IE/Reaver + any of 3 examples above would make it so that every 2nd auto crits starting with first/ second
Lastly reduce Critical strike damage since AD carries can now control them 150% of AD with ie 200% of AD
And Viola crit is now healthy and we didnt just flatten it out in a dull way
Sole Soul of Sol1 votesMechanics such as
Every third auto attack crits Every third auto attack crits starting with second Every third auto attack crits starting with first
Could replace crit chance
You could control crit implement those 3 examples in 3 items which zeal builds into.
And we could handle / restrict combinations. Having IE/Reaver + any of 3 examples above would make it so that every 2nd auto crits starting with first/ second
Lastly reduce Critical strike damage since AD carries can now control them 150% of AD with ie 200% of AD
And Viola crit is now healthy and we didnt just flatten it out in a dull way
But then how would someone like Ashe, Fiora, Rengar, or Garen fit into this, where their abilities are affected by/grant critical strike?
Poske2 votes[{quoted}](name=Soul Of Aurelion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gNZohUqt,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-11-17T22:25:38.860+0000)
But then how would someone like Ashe, Fiora, Rengar, or Garen fit into this, where their abilities are affected by/grant critical strike?
This is how fiora 2ND E auto already works. 140 / 155 / 170 / 185 / 200%. aka unnafected
ultimate would be reduced by to 150%. Or you know we can simply word it rengar crits with the value of 200% (similar to fiora) so that he doesnt get nerfed.
Ashe Q would no longer work with it. She could get buffed somewhere to compensate.
Simplest compensations would be bonus damage **when she should have crit with q
**
Her passive could scale of attackspeed instead of crit chance ETC since the above would be confusing to many
. This champion would be positively effected by this change since this would remove the troll crit build
The whole his E can crit gimmick makes people think that crit is somehow good stat on garen IT IS NOT. And building IE reaver or whatever garbage some low elo trolls build is bad
Garen wasnt viable as far as I am concerned ever since his release. He needs a rework regardless
Now
This 2 would require some changes
Yasuo needs to be forced to build crit so whatever they do to him should be with that goal. Else he becomes a tank bruiser with insane utility.
I would suggest some changes being even an ex chall adc yasuo player. But I have nothing.
Trynda Rng cheese wont be missed. Buff his teamfight viability to compensate.
And there you go
ProfDrDeath1 votesNo, those effects cannot replace crit chance.
Because those types of effects are very reliable - you basically can game it in several ways, like stacking up on minions and hitting the crit on the champion for a guaranteed burst of damage.
Without the inherent unreliability at low crit chance values, the power of critical strikes would have go down very significantly - and that would have snowballing effects on the balancing of all beefy classes.
ModAcademy Kayn5 votesExcept it isn't RNG, it's Pseudo-RNG that is made to balance out Crit-chance into a stable damage modifier over time. If you have 30% Crit chance, and you don't crit with your first item, you then have a slightly better chance to get a Crit on the next auto, while vice versa with getting a crit early. Tryn is an exception due to his constantly changing Crit chance when below a full bar, which technically resets each time the bar fills up.
It's not being ignored, but it seems like you're misinterpreting just how much behind the scenes is going on with Crit. If it was truly RNG then, like my experiences with FF14 grinding, you could miss a 70% chance to crit 3 autos, or be lucky and Crit 3 times in a row at 30%.
It's like Apple's old Shuffle option for iPods. The completely random option for the shuffle kept repeating the same song more than people expected, so they tuned it so it wouldn't play the same song again.
NineTailedMystic4 votesSure, it's pseudo-random, but it doesn't feel good. "wtf he crit me twice in the trade" or "wtf he got a lucky crit and burst me from half hp" or "wtf how did I not crit him" etc.
Thiadel3 votesJust like getting one-shot by an assassin with Duskblade or 100-0 on a Veigar ult doesn't feel good. Everyone can complain about something with every class, champion, or item.
NineTailedMystic3 votesif veigar ult is one shotting you, something is wrong.
ARAM ZooKeeper4 votesI honestly never understood why random % crit was in a "competitive" game.
Same as these "point and click" abilities... why not make them skillshots.[slayer-jinx-catface]
Sole Soul of Sol20 votes[{quoted}](name=BBQ In Mid Lane,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gNZohUqt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-17T15:04:10.976+0000)
Same as these "point and click" abilities... why not make them skillshots.
As for the "point and click" abilities, almost all of them have some sort of trade off compared to skillshots, such as range, cooldown, or mana cost. [sg-ezreal]
IcyPepper8 votesMuch more interesting than the RNG aspect of crit
[sg-zephyr]
Snowplosion3 votesYeah, crit chance isn't really random either. It is partly RNG, but it's also adaptive.
Z3Sleeper4 votesYeah I hate Random Generation Number.
RNG is fine tho.
Thresh Outta Fux4 votesRGN shouldn't been a thing in a game with a serious balance, and crit chance is a blatant RGN that gives burst damage to champion clases that shouldn't have burst damage.
How long is this issue going to be ignored?
It's been ignored since game release. Google it, all the way back on Forums we wanted them to look at it. Devs in ALL games are just too un-creative to remove random crits, they can't seem to understand that things like the charged attacks of Shiv/Cannon are what you need to replace it with.
Meep Man3 votesAnd replaced. That is an important part because otherwise then ADCs have about 35% of their power removed from them and while I'm sure everyone is going to look at this and say "DEATH TO THE ADC META", I have said it once and will say it again. Gutting is not the answer to anything.
HarrowR2 votesnah man,obviously people want one player on the enemy team,not your own of course,to be a walking 300 gold prize,you dont get auto attacks,you dont get abilities,your movespeed is reduced to 200 and your armor and mr is -200,thats the adc they want
Lauchmelder3 votesStop hyperventilating.
People want ADCs to be in line with every other class and there's only 3 ways this can go:
1.) Rework ADC items/stats (removing crit, maybe replacing it with a %hp damage before resistances) 2.) Straight up nerfing every ADC (which won't work because ADCs will bitch about "mimimi ADC in 2k17" again) 3.) Buffing mages and assassins (which won't work because ADCs will bitch about "mimimi ADC in 2k17" again)
HarrowR1 votesYou're gold 5 0 lp,fresh out of silver with 80% of the games played in ARAM,how can i take you seriously,you wanting to buff mages and assassins and nerfing adcs,im not sure im seeing why any adc needs a nerf? Assassins are more than capable of killing them,especially now with the damage creep in preseason,mages can obliterate them,i know,i play them also,like i said before,anyone can burst,its more of a matter of you being tanky,not if the enemy has damage,i've never seen a full tank maokai get bursted by anyone,but i sure as hell seen support sona burst people for half hp,is that broken too?
Lauchmelder2 votesSo you are trying to discredit me with the ranked card, while completely disregarding the fact that I didn't even need a 100 games to get there (which kind of implies that I don't give a flying fuck about ranked past gold).
Your opinion is worthless in that case.
HarrowR1 votesYou said it yourself,you dont give a flying fuck about ranked past gold,while we all know Riot balances the game around pro play,means that your opinion about adcs "not being in line" with the other classes means shit
Lauchmelder2 votesActually my opinion outweighs yours now simply because you think rank determines what you're allowed to say.
I could stoop as low as you and say: "Try to climb higher in a region that actually matters." Do I mean it? No, because I'm not a childish ass
Chermorg3 votesLet's refrain from trying to "rank shame" other players here. Everyone's opinion matters. Riot does not cater only to the top 10 challengers and their idea of what balance should be, nor do they cater only to Bronze 5. Riot balances the game for everyone in the game, not just for a certain subset of skilled enough players. If you have any questions about this please do not hesitate to contact us in the Boards Moderation Discord server.
Ebonbolt1 votesSay it gets removed.How are you going to make sure champions like Draven and Lucian who are supposed to be bursty stay the same?
Automated Riven6 votesDraven isn't supposed to be bursty. He is supposed to have higher damage on attacks. Nobody should be 2shotting other champs with auto attacks.
Ebonbolt1 votesKilling people in 1 or 2 seconds is his entire thing past laning phase
Automated Riven3 votesHe won't do that unless he has a Leona support or something. And even so it takes longer then 1-2 seconds.
Ebonbolt1 votesEver been critted by a 3 items draven?If you're squishy, you lose half your health on first auto.Then you die from the next auto or if he doesn't have enough damage he ults or autos you another time.
Automated Riven2 votesbut he shouldnt. He should just have higher DPS then other adc's assuming he juggles his axes properly. And yes I have been two shot by draven before, this is just rare. I actually typically will die faster to twitch late game then draven tbh.
Thefrostyviking1 votesExcept pure AD stacking will never be as effective against tanks as it is against squishies in this game.
Even if you were to remove crit it will always be fairly easy to detonate squishies by stacking AD.
Just look at all the lethality builds x)
Automated Riven1 votesI dont know what the answer is. But ADC's deal too much damage to squishies.
Thefrostyviking1 votesTrue and false, as your statement implies that both and 
both deal too much damage x)
That or 
and 
.
Marksmen as a class have vastly different DPS's spikes, and burst potential.
Ashe for one has neither burst nor impressive DPS, Varus has excellent DPS and .....quite decent burst if hitting everything early on.
Vayne and Trist can with items 2 shot someone squishy, and with another build they both melt tanks in seconds.
¨
Rather than saying that the marksmen class is OP you ought to name the ones you have a problem with as you´d do with every other class x)
Automated Riven2 votesI am sincerely sorry. Let me rephrase so as to avoid confusion.
Every champion in the game deals too much damage. So much so, that we had to implement an item that gives tanks 8k health just so that they feel tanky. Damage across the board needs to be dropped by at least 10-15%
Thefrostyviking1 votesIs there really an issue with raw damage as a whole?
Usually one would say that crit/runes/ vayne&fiora true damage mechanics etc/ or even on hit are too strong.
And honestly i do not think damage in general is too high, and i base my judgement on .
Yes, .
On marksmen like Ashe, it's almost exceedingly difficult to kill tanks already, if you want to drop all kinds of damage in general then it will be nigh impossible to do it.
I played ashe and got fed, really fed, just last night, but my team was full AD so enenmy gragas went and stacked armor.
But i was really damn fed, like 6,1,3 in laning or something along those lines.
However despite the fact that i was an entire item over him i could barely kill him, and it took proverbial ages to do it.
So rather than taking down damage in general, and thus dragging down all the actually balanced champs, identify the ones doing too much and have them nerfed.
Just going in with no plan at all and proclaiming that damage is too high on all champs is not going to help anyone and it's incorrect as well.
Identify issue's and deal with them, one by one, and things will end up a lot less messy rather than trying to implement big changes here and there.
Automated Riven2 votesAshe serves a different role then most adc's tho. She is purely utility so she brings less damage to the team. I for one am in favor of long teamfights. Now teamfights end in less the 5 seconds. I would like them to be a lot longer.
Thefrostyviking1 votesAshe is DPS, over a extended fight she is really good.
But she does not crit in the usual sense so she loses fights against pretty much any other marksman.
And her slows are much too weak to really compensate, no damage dealer will have any issue gapclosing on her, only slow tanks do.
And aren't you a Riven main? She basically needs fights to end near instantly least she'll get trampled, and she does it by cleaving any enemy damage carry x)
Often but not always by means of flashing ontop of them and doing one combo or another and chunking out all their health in half a second.
Not that such a thing could change, if she can't kill opponents like that then she is of no use at all, since she is a burst dedicated champ.-
If you are looking for extended fights then you basically invalidate pretty much all assassins, divers and burst mages while promoting all tanks, hypercarry marksmen, any non burst focused mage and enhancer supports.
Ardent+tank meta in a nutshell that is.
All things cannot be good at the same time x)
Automated Riven2 votesRiven doesnt have to be burst oriented. And I will be the first to tell you that a fighter champion like riven should not be able flash and kill and adc over the duration of a .75 seconds stun. just because she can doesnt mean she should.
Thefrostyviking2 votesBut if she couldn't she´d just die over the span of a 5 seconds CC a support+marksman bring, that or a support+mage.
And if she were to gain durability instead it still would not mean much, since the real lategame marksmen who are designed to murder tanks would have no issue in melting a fighter pretending to be tough x)
We're in a pretty damned situation as a result of a arms race between marksmen and tanks :8
