@Riot. Guys this tank/Tank item meta is out of hand

Apocalypsic··4 votes·539 views
r/Rivenmains

This is ridiculous, in a way that is two fold.

Firstly: The fact that this item combo works on pretty much every champ in the game, and in many situations better than their "intended" build style is absolutely bonkers. It gives far too much damage/tackiness/utility for just building defensively. There is no good anti tank itemization anymore like there was in previous seasons. The last whisper items are jokes and so this top meta is left to run rampant.

Secondly: The fact that a master tier Riven player felt the need to build this speaks volumes about the ditch you guys have left Riven and many other fighters in ever since the pre season. One of the hardest scaling AD's in the game and it's better off just ignoring that apparently to grab the OP meta build. Iceborne is so strong that it's perfectly fine to ignore the fact that Riven has no mana! It's just that ridiculous.

This is just further proof that riven needs buffs or we need better anti tank itemization in general. Constant nerfs and item changes have left her in the aforementioned ditch, and you just keep shoveling dirt over it every new patch that comes out.

Irelia and Olaf have or are going to be receiving buffs, so why are you still blatantly ignoring Riven?

TLDR: Make scaling fighters viable again and fix this absolutely horrid meta.

22 Comments

Ralanr2 votes

A lot of people still have a bitter taste in their mouths from salty Riven players. I think it might be awhile before she'll be buffed, even with her winrate as is.

Edit: Seeing IBG on Riven physically hurts me.

Apocalypsic1 votes

{quoted}

A lot of people still have a bitter taste in their mouths from salty Riven players. I think it might be awhile before she'll be buffed, even with her winrate as is.

That's not really a valid justification though :/. That has everything to do with emotion but nothing to do with balance.

Ralanr3 votes

Welcome to how I feel about Poppy's gutting.

Tank items will be nerfed the patch after the next I imagine. Leaving tanks to die in another heavy damage meta.

I know tanks are strong, I just hate non-tank champions abusing tank items and no one blames those champions.

I don't think tanks (actual tanks, not juggernauts) should deal a lot of damage, but I still think they should have kill potential.

I'm also of the opinion that if people build MR more then sunfire wouldn't be as strong.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

I'm also of the opinion that if people build MR more then sunfire wouldn't be as strong.

this actually confuses me. the item only ever got a buff to minion damage, not champion damage.

as a duelling item, sunfire cape has been shit since the nerf of 42 damage/sec (which made it a very good item to rush in lane) upon buying the item to level scaling damage.

its only purpose right now is literally just waveclear. its actually a terrible item compared to dead mans or randuins when it comes to trading with other champions.

i guess the only reason its so strong right now, is because the meta is so heavily focused around splitpushing and avoiding teamfights thanks to the long death timers.

Ralanr1 votes

I never really notice it's strength in splitpushing. It seems like it has some constant damage in team fights, small but constant.

Apocalypsic1 votes

{quoted}

Welcome to how I feel about Poppy's gutting.

Tank items will be nerfed the patch after the next I imagine. Leaving tanks to die in another heavy damage meta.

I know tanks are strong, I just hate non-tank champions abusing tank items and no one blames those champions.

I don't think tanks (actual tanks, not juggernauts) should deal a lot of damage, but I still think they should have kill potential.

I'm also of the opinion that if people build MR more then sunfire wouldn't be as strong.

Poppy is a juggernaut though.

She's also still got her %max health damage and hard CC to rely on. They did take away some of her lane bully potential though.

AlwaysByMySide2 votes

{quoted}

Poppy is a juggernaut though.

No she's not.

She's a tank.

Ralanr1 votes

https://media.giphy.com/media/5xtDarmwsuR9sDRObyU/giphy.gif

I don't know how many times this has bothered me! She has hard CC, she has built in peel, she has a GODDAMN DISENGAGE ULT!

She is not a juggernaut. Her kit is not a juggernaut kit (juggernauts rarely have defensive steroids and are more focused around damage, hers is focused around utility!). Sure she did a lot of damage, which can make people confused, but she was a primary tank!

Juggernauts are primary fighters! HOW MANY TIMES DO WE NEED TO BE OVER THIS PEOPLE?!

Apocalypsic1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gMTPQedh,comment-id=00010000000000010000,timestamp=2016-04-12T21:28:24.114+0000)

No she's not.

She's a tank.

I could be wrong but I was pretty sure riot classified her as one of the juggernauts.

Could be wrong though.

AlwaysByMySide1 votes

{quoted}

I could be wrong but I was pretty sure riot classified her as one of the juggernauts.

Could be wrong though.

Nah, she was always classified as a tank. A juggernaut is a champion who, more than anything, is defined by their difficulty in getting onto the backline.

Poppy with her W and E has no issues reaching an enemy carry. She also has much more utility than any juggernaut.

For the record, I agree with you overall. Riven either needs some help or the metagolem top lane items need to be toned down so that champs like Riven can't be shut down with easy cheap purposes.

Apocalypsic1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gMTPQedh,comment-id=0001000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2016-04-12T22:22:50.649+0000)

Nah, she was always classified as a tank. A juggernaut is a champion who, more than anything, is defined by their difficulty in getting onto the backline.

Poppy with her W and E has no issues reaching an enemy carry. She also has much more utility than any juggernaut.

For the record, I agree with you overall. Riven either needs some help or the metagolem top lane items need to be toned down so that champs like Riven can't be shut down with easy cheap purposes.

Makes sense, I could have sworn I saw somewhere that she was technically a juggernaut but that might have just been what people said due to her re-release being so close chronologically to the juggernaut reworks.

Yours and Ralanr's logic is pretty sound on her being a tank.

Ralanr1 votes

That and she's listed as a primary tank...I know Riot's secondary tags are iffy, but their primary tags are often spot on.

Except for that Mordekaiser Marksman incident. But we don't talk about that.

Ralanr1 votes

The E range nerf and auto attack reset removal was too much. All of her position winrate safe below 49% and she has a smaller playerbase now judging by champion gg.

She was one of my favorite junglers. With the removal of the reset, the clears are painfully awkward.

Edit: I'm pretty sure she might have the lowest winrate in jg right now.

Apocalypsic1 votes

{quoted}

A lot of people still have a bitter taste in their mouths from salty Riven players. I think it might be awhile before she'll be buffed, even with her winrate as is.

Edit: Seeing IBG on Riven physically hurts me.

Seeing IBG WORK on Riven physically hurts me.

Ralanr1 votes

I mean, it is 20% CDR on a cooldown champion. It's just the wasted mana that irks me.

Apocalypsic1 votes

Posted this on my phone, possible grammatical errors.

Zarkkast1 votes

Yesterday a saw a tank Katarina.

It didn't work though.

Ralanr1 votes

I saw a tank Shaco recently. He was annoying, but the only person he really hurt was Yasuo.

Zarkkast1 votes

I am a Shaco main and tank Shaco is actually pretty good.

Well, I guess not full tank, but like, off-tank with Deadman's Plate, Sterak's, Zz'rot

Ralanr1 votes

He went item 3068 and item 3025.

Zarkkast1 votes

I'd have to try it out, but I personally wouldn't go Sunfire Cape on Shaco

Iceborn Gauntlet is good though, the mana and cdr makes him extra annoying and the slow helps a lot.

3TWarrior1 votes

the sad problem is that there's an easy fix compared to balancing in the long run over time and yet riot has to adhere to selling flavors of the month because they lack confidence in their game

if their game has 100 million active players...how in the world do they think it's better to consistently upset them than to fix the problems the game has?

the easy fix for tanks and bruisers and ADCs is to change how items and base stats work as a whole, where instead classes will depend upon their base stats to effectively determine their potential.

for instance, an assassin like fizz or akali(currently AP tank item abusers) would have terrible defensive base stats that can not support tank items as effectively as a tank's base stats could. How this would be done is by removing hybrid items from the game except in specific cases and letting items keep power by their unique passives. For instance, a tank or a bruiser could easily benefit from thornmail just by its incredibly high stats and passive, heck, any class could, but a bruiser would need to build all of armor, magic resist and health to be "tanky" instead of hybrid items like dead man's plate or item 3065

hybrid items have pushed league to the point where all riot can do is nerf them a point at a time to see if it works when instead they should be re-evaluating classes and items as a whole

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