Boards›Gameplay

So with the Vayne buffs I'm a bit ... annoyed.

Apocalypsic··65 votes·3,565 views

The Q buffs were intended to help her with supplementing her sustained damage and now all I'm seeing is Full Crit builds that burst you for over half your life with one Q.

So basically Vayne now has MASSIVE burst and still some insane sustained true damage. Fix this please...

EDIT: So people don't misunderstand me.

I am 100% OK with Vayne's lategame, you pick her for amazing sustained damage and unrivaled tank busting. Thats fine.

However with the Q buff changes some patches ago and this new build I think that the champion is "double dipping" so to speak with her damage. The burst potential from a tumble auto with this new build is absolutely insane and I think a bit too much when you consider her already godly sustained damage. Vayne's niche is that of a heavy sustained damage dealing ADC, I just think it's a bit ridiculous that she can do that and burst as well right now. She's kind of getting to have her cake and eat it too.

47 Comments

UberAffe16 votes

She could do that before too. If she gets 100% crit chance then the only difference between current vayne and old vayne is that the bonus damage from her tumble can hit turrets now.

It used to be that they would roll two dice when vayne tumbled, one decided if the tumble damage would crit and the other decided if the auto would crit, now they only roll one dice that decides for both.

Sightless6620 votes

I think he's referring to the 6.17 increase to the Q bonus damage.

UberAffe4 votes

That might be worth reverting but he was talking about the tumble crit burst so thats what I addressed.

Sightless669 votes

he was talking about the tumble crit burst so thats what I addressed.

Sure, and the extra damage on the Q increased the burst. Tumble does more damage, so it crits for more. That's why he's talking about the 6.17 changes. What exactly do you see in his post that makes you think that he's referring to the 6.15 changes?

You said "If she gets 100% crit chance then the only difference between current vayne and old vayne is that the bonus damage from her tumble can hit turrets now." That's not correct. The higher Q damage means that she'll do more damage now than she would before 6.17. It's only correct if you're only tallking about 6.15, but I see nothing indicating that OP is only talking about 6.15.

UberAffe1 votes

guess i have my patches out of order, I thought the damage increase was older and the crit change was the new one.

Sightless669 votes

And yet, she's still only average at best (and even that's being generous).

it be lìke that9 votes

god im so tired of qq threads complaining about champions who are literally unplayable if left alone.

vayne is so bad when not in the hands of a "main vayne" who is genuinely good. she is sitting at a 47% winrate where she has been for awhile, and everyone loses their shit the second she gets buffed.

id go as far to say as the only mm worse than her, is corki. excluding urgod because urgod is a god.

Sidestep6 votes

Kalista says hello

Hinagiku331 votes

Kalista can sit in the damn corner until Riot reworks her kit.

A hyper-mobile Marksman that hops on every auto can be a thing. An objective-control Marksman that can execute Dragon/Harold/Baron for uncapped damage can be a thing. A teamwork-centered Marksman that gives her support bonus damage when they attack the same target and gives them a free escape/initiation can be a thing.

BUT NOT ALL AT ONCE ON A SINGLE CHAMPION.

Dracocrash1 votes

you are somewhat right.. but you will get downvotes because the boards hate yasuo/lee sin/vayne/fizz.

sdsdfdf9 votes

oh man.. 54% winrate MF and jinx, better complain about 50% vayne amirite

Snowplosion1 votes

Vayne isn't even quite at fifty yet.

AirKingNeo3 votes

MF is lower than 54%

Dracocrash1 votes

um. no.

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

Well vayne gained popularity again which many people don't want since vayne is the yasuo on botlane: will feed her ass off on your team and be gosu on the enemy team. Besides vayne now is a tad bit too strong in the early-mid game considering she is a so called "lategame hypercarry".

sadboiPrime5 votes

Except for the fact that any other adc can bully Vayne early. Saying her early is strong is ignorant. She has the weakest early of all adc's.

Neckoe5 votes

[{quoted}](name=fat Ioser,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fb7Iw98Y,comment-id=000600020000,timestamp=2016-09-29T12:46:13.846+0000)

Except for the fact that any other adc can bully Vayne early. Saying her early is strong is ignorant. She has the weakest early of all adc's.

Except for maybe Kog'Maw.

Dracocrash1 votes

Kog'maw is probably weaker tbh..

So lets say 2nd weakest?

grug1 votes

{quoted}

oh man.. 54% winrate MF and jinx, better complain about 50% vayne amirite

vayne suffers from Lee syndrome huehue

Sire Hippington4 votes

Just because MF and Jinx are stronger in average doesn't mean Vayne isn't broken in some way. MF and Jinx have both absurd winrates for short games and drop quite a bit later on.

Vayne has a pathetic winrate in short games, but gets absurd in later games, beeing the adc with the highest winrate post 35min.

Given the lowish average gametime, MF and Jinx are overall stronger, but once you hit lategame, Vayne is just rediculous and one of the worst champs to play against, so the complaints aren't completly unjustifyed.

Buff Jax please6 votes

Well she was a trollpick before.

Darth Sidiouss6 votes

Shes basically a master yi with ranged autos if you dont deal with it right away, she aces your whole team. It takes time for her to get BIG just make sure you have control in your matches to deal with her and keep her from going big.

GrReaper965 votes

Yeah like MissFortune also cant do that

Steelflame2 votes

MF Qs require her to last hit the target, and then have the Q bounce to you, to crit. Now that crit can nearly 1 shot you early game, especially with IE.

But you sorta left yourself open to it, standing directly behind a low hp minion, MF's favorite Q target.

Dracocrash1 votes

And vayne has to do it from a short range and put herself in danger, while MF can do it from an effectively bigger range...

And even without the last hit on the target the Q bounce is quite strong.

Missfortune is currently way more broken than vayne, and frankly if i was playing adc, i would rather face a vayne than an mf.

Brain Errör 4044 votes

The amount of people that bandwagon on hating a champ because they dislike their design is horrible... lol. I have an issue with Every. Single. Bloody. Adc. Why? Because they all do insane amounts of damage when they hit full build (bar kalista/Corki). So complaining about getting 3 shotted by a vayne at full build when you have 0 armor reduction and then not saying anything about that MF pressing R and getting a pentakill is a good start.

Mecha Incognito3 votes

I don't get the point exactly. Are you complaining that Vayne, known for her late game hyper carry status, is too strong late game?

She's OK as is. Most of the time Vayne is a bad choice because chances are, she'll just be counter picked (by pretty much everyone) and rendered useless for a good part of the game. But that's how she is, high risk high reward.

Quick edit: The problem you have mainly is with itemisation for Marksmen. Which is understandable, they threw crit on to everything this season, I'm surprised trinkets don't give them crit too. But it's not a Vayne problem, that buff just helped keep her in the game.

Earl Eulrich3 votes

every goddamn carry that buys an IE and crits will deal massive burst dmg and insane sustained dmg - it´s the one problem Riot ignores since rather forever. It´s not just vayne...i have killed midlaners from 100-0 with a headshot crit and caits ult, i´ve assassinated people out of the brush with ashe or in the open with tiwtch...or you get fed as draven and just two-shot everything there is in the game. Crit scaling is just insanly overtuned and needs to be cut down since forever, the current adc builds prove anyway that it´s absolutly not needed to deal with tanks lategame, they still die quickly enough as it is.

Nar7ia2 votes

I mean a 0/2 LB was telling me that vayne is useless , me being vayne and 2/0. So no thnx but that buff was needed.

CypherDoom2 votes

Fix this please...

yeah dude riot needs to listen to a silver 4 player before all the iterations of high elo games and tests in their pbe client and search for data to see if the buffs they gave her managed to balance her overall. good analysis too

Apocalypsic3 votes

{quoted}

Fix this please...

yeah dude riot needs to listen to a silver 4 player before all the iterations of high elo games and tests in their pbe client and search for data to see if the buffs they gave her managed to balance her overall. good analysis too

I'm not silver. I'm plat, so I'm only slightly better trash.

That being said, get your facts straight before you go out to berate someone over the internet.

SiG DxD2 votes

vayne now became caitlyn ,3 shotting you Caitlyn disgusting trap/E /passive dmg

vanye crits qq

BoilTheOil2 votes

shes not op

Dengeden2 votes

For what it's worth, the old way her Q crit did more damage early, if I remember that reddit thread correctly.

I'm dubious how big of a problem it is, Vayne still loves those AS items since she has no AS roids. In those Gosu vids, he's always 8/1.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

link to buffs

Rivuo1 votes

{quoted}

link to buffs

xD you arent really the happy explorer are you

YambrinZ1 votes

Just inb time for worlds. #worldsbigplays

Vallalan1 votes

vayne is still hot garbage in lane. any competent player should poop all over her before she gets her two items. she needs two items before she can really do what you are describing. and to do it consistently she needs 3 to make sure ever Q is critting more often than not.

she's fine. I love going against vayne. they are a free win in my honest opinion so long as they are not paired with a soraka.

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

Like come on this argument is so false Large burst? please a majority of armour pen builds do way more then Vayne can, Corki does more burst with his combo Twitch Twitch literally evaporates your team instead of one guy Quinn Quinn can do the god damn same except your probably going to kill yourself from the nearsight making you unable to fight back before she murders you

This is nothing new and a lot of ADC's can burst, can i also mention that caitlyn can actually do the same with a shiv? only from like double the range? but nobody is bitching because thats practically a season 6 trend

Supreme Senpai691 votes

I hate Vaynes. She takes a lot of skill and is easy to be countered. So half the time they feed their ass off and lose their team the game. The other half, people know she's squishy and takes a lot of skill so try to fight her level 1-2 and feed her a double kill, and the game is lost there. And then the rare scenarios where the Vayne is actually good and she can 1v5 the other team.

She's either too weak or too strong usually. I liked when she was bad and don't want her to get buffs because I don't want her in my games :/

Feed Daddy1 votes

Vayne is still garbage tho

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

Look at all the edgy challenjour vaybe kids at the c moments.

TopperH1 votes

I played vs a Vayne yesterday as Jinx, when we both had 3/4 item's she Q me and I saw 95% of my health bar gone. Checked the maximum crit damage at the end : 1866 holy molly ! Still won that game coz i learned to stay far away from her, she could basically one shot me with 1 Q auto xD

MorgManBasher1 votes

Still think she is garbage tbh As a support main I hate having vaynes on my team. I have to baby sit this character through her early game only for her to usually not bring much later while their mid game character ADC stomps our team.

Dracocrash1 votes

"oh no a late game champion is doing damage late game!"

Apocalypsic2 votes

[{quoted}](name=NoganksOnlyFarm ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fb7Iw98Y,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2016-09-29T14:53:01.125+0000)

"oh no a late game champion is doing damage late game!"

People are misunderstanding my issue here, you included.

I have ZERO problems with Vayne's monstrous lategame sustained damages. The issue I have is that right now in particular I feel that she's double dipping so to speak, this new Crit build with those Q buffs from some patches ago gives her some of the largest burst potential that I've ever seen on an ADC from a single auto. Vayne is already among if not, after kogs nerfs, the premier ADC that you take to have amazing sustained damage and tank busting prowess, she shouldn't also be capable of tying that together with this crazy burst from this new build.

LordKentravyon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Sexy Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fb7Iw98Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-09-28T15:33:19.448+0000)

The Q buffs were intended to help her with supplementing her sustained damage and now all I'm seeing is Full Crit builds that burst you for over half your life with one Q.

So basically Vayne now has MASSIVE burst and still some insane sustained true damage. Fix this please...

EDIT: So people don't misunderstand me.

I am 100% OK with Vayne's lategame, you pick her for amazing sustained damage and unrivaled tank busting. Thats fine.

However with the Q buff changes some patches ago and this new build I think that the champion is "double dipping" so to speak with her damage. The burst potential from a tumble auto with this new build is absolutely insane and I think a bit too much when you consider her already godly sustained damage. Vayne's niche is that of a heavy sustained damage dealing ADC, I just think it's a bit ridiculous that she can do that and burst as well right now. She's kind of getting to have her cake and eat it too.

Honestly Vayne's %max hp true damage is one of the most infuriating things in the game and i would love to see it reworked. (So is Fiora's but at least you its a but more reasonable to deny her with positioning) I'm cool with people being good vs tanks but Vayne's is just crazy unfun

Also % max hp true damage is the only thing you can't bring anythint to help mitigate. Everythjng else in the game had some form of answer in the shop / runes / masteries even if it happens to be sub optimal on your gicen champ. . (ths as slows on Fh and Ran don't mitigate it they just slightly reduce its proc rate and to be honest with th AS she gets not that noticable)

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Apocalypsic

Botlane and the game in general has never seen this much diversity in a long time.
Gameplay171 comments
151
votes
Yeah my post about Adrian a few days ago. Dyrus is doing it too.
Gameplay101 comments
104
votes
I fully support the damage paths Yasuo can run with.
Gameplay206 comments
88
votes
Day one of Ult buffs. Riven is the most broken champion ever to grace this game and....
Gameplay108 comments
74
votes
Press the Attack is not a suitable replacement for Fervor for like 90% of the toplane roster.
Gameplay53 comments
70
votes
We all talk about how high damage is, but can we address the CC bloat this game has?
Gameplay85 comments
57
votes