What I don't agree with at all are the fervor abuse tank/bruiser yasuo builds. Winning by virtue of stacking fervor and being tankier is not how he's supposed to be played, I want to see the glass cannon yasuo builds again.
statelesskiller10 votesremove all keystones. BOOM. SORTED
B1naryB0t4 votesThe Pokemon Go method of solving problems.
Aatrox Mid 1v57 votesWhats happening to yasuo right now is the tank ekko thing all over again
Not xPeke5 votes[{quoted}](name=free software,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eTX9EJn7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-08-08T16:19:50.550+0000)
Whats happening to yasuo right now is the tank ekko thing all over again
Which proves Ekko, Tank Akali, Tank Fizz were never the problem as the champions themselves..
It's the game's philosphy. The game itemization and masteries that created this problem.
DunkinNoobs7 votesRiot says they think it's a problem too. How exactly they intend to address that problem is a mystery to me. I really don't know how you can nerf bruiser Yasuo without nerfing carry Yasuo even harder.
Enlegacy23 votesProbably lowering base damage on his abilities and reducing his passive crit penalty, making him want to build at least 2 items for his 100% crit.
DunkinNoobs6 votesThe only problem with that is that it makes his early game even weaker, which could easily make him unplayable in many matchups. There's a limit to just how weak Yasuo can be early game given his lack of an escape, disengage, and ranged farming.
SithesisLord28 voteslack of an escape, disengage
Six minions in lane. If he can´t use them to get in and out, he's an awful Yasuo.
and ranged farming.
And his Q3 is what?
Rimgon4 votesNot saying you're entirely wrong, but to stack for Q3, you have to get close for two normal Qs.
FioraWillCarry1 votesAnd his Q3 is what?
3 ? I get tornado with 2 Qs. Is that a bug or something ?
DunkinNoobs5 votesHis Q3 meaning his 3rd Q. As in it takes 2 to charge and then the 3rd one is a tornado. And while it can indeed be used to farm on occasion, it's still hardly a reliable ranged farming tool, since it only comes up every so often and requires you to charge it with your first 2 q's at basically melee range. It's about as reliable of a ranged farming tool as Leona's E, which is to say, not much.
YumScrumptious965 votesExcept to use the minions he has to push the lane, meaning he can't get out with them since he's pushing the lane using E for dodging abilities, cs'ing and such, all while using Q on minions to get stacks for 3rd Q, so he will have no minions behind himt o use as escape. You don't play Yasuo much do you?
Sinlaire10 votesIsn't the suggestion to nerf his early base? wouldnt that slow his pushing power so he shoots himself in the foot less?
YumScrumptious961 votesNerfing his early base is a bad idea, he is only shooting himself in the foot is he's a bad player or doesn't know Yasuo well, as a smart Yasuo can stack Q by last hitting when necessary, he will push lane which means you can easily gank him, but you can freeze the lane if you are smart enough not to randomly Q and E. His early game is weak because of this pushing power, so nerfing his early game will just make him even worse because his base damage will be lower but he's still gonna be pushing and will have an even harder time playing safe. Yasuo's pretty much designed to be aggressive and push, your supposed to play like that, its a risk for reward playstyle but nerfing him will only reduce the reward. Sorry if this all seems like rambling, hard to explain. What needs to be nerfed are the items he uses, I fully agree with a PD nerf as that's his main power in the top lane bruiser build.
Sinlaire9 votesI'm sorry, but it is rambling.
you said:
which means you can control your push.
which makes no sense at all. if he does less damage, he wont push as hard. managing your wave is how you play safe. it was the second point. Then you say
4.Yasuo's pretty much designed to be aggressive and push, your supposed to play like that
So are you supposed to push or not? you say his early game is weak because he pushes, but he's supposed to push, but you can control your push if you're not bad, but somehow if you do less damage and control your push you push harder and are more likely to play unsafely? which is it man?
let me show you the proper flow chart; do less damage -> push and manage wave deliberately with less accidental shove -> shove wave when intentional because it's what you're supposed to do.
play safe when you want to and shove when you want to. thats how it works. doing less damage doesnt ever translate into shove lane harder. ever.
YumScrumptious962 votesHis early game is weak because of his pushing power as it makes him very vulnerable to ganks, and he doesn't have the capability to prevent them or get out with any sense of ease. He will always push, but a good Yasuo will do it slower and try to keep it from spiraling out of control. If he does less damage, his kit still requires him to push the lane to utilize it, only he has less damage to out play ganks or 1v1 the opponent. You are supposed to push as Yasuo, but the difference between a good Yasuo and a bad one is how hard you push. Your kit requires you to, but it doesn't make you constantly Q and E the wave just to get stacks, if you are smart you'll use it when you need in. Its still gonna push but it will be slower. Yasuo doing less damage isn't gonna make him stop pushing, he needs to push to get the most out of his kit, doing less damage means he has even less safety while doing it.
DunkinNoobs2 votesHis early game is weak because of his pushing power as it makes him very vulnerable to ganks, and he doesn't have the capability to prevent them or get out with any sense of ease.
His early game is weak because his base damage are piss poor and he's squishy. He early game is NOT weak because of his pushing power; pushing power is pretty much always a strength early game since you can choose to not utilize it. You think Renekton and Darius are so strong early game just because? No. They're so strong early game because they outtrade their opponents AND push to gain an even greater advantage. Yasuo, on the other hand, pretty much needs to push if he wants to be aggressive, but he doesn't have to be aggressive. Just hanging back and CSing with Q is 100% an option. A pretty boring option, mind you, but a valid one.
TotalJerk5 votesSix minions in lane. If he can´t use them to get in and out, he's an awful Yasuo.
He has no control over where the minions are; they are typically towards the enemy. The only time they are an option as an escape is when the wave has been pushed close to his turret.
And his Q3 is what?
Extremely limited in use. He has to land two Qs for a brief window. It's not in any way a reliable ranged farming tool.
Rosie Odonell5 votesSix minions in lane. If he can´t use them to get in and out, he's an awful Yasuo.
And his Q3 is what?
The fact that so many people upvoted you here shows how little the boards knows about the game lmfao
Naag One3 votesHow trash you must be :)
ChaddyFantome9 votesThe only problem with that is that it makes his early game even weaker, which could easily make him unplayable in many matchups. There's a limit to just how weak Yasuo can be early game given his lack of an escape, disengage, and ranged farming.
-Yasuo -weak early game
Pick one
Go play Talon and then try to describe a weak Early for me again please.
DunkinNoobs9 votes-Yasuo -weak early game
Pick one
Go play Talon and then try to describe a weak Early for me again please.
Yasuo doesn't have a strong early game. He has a strong lvls 1 and 2. Talon doesn't have a weak early game. He has a weak lvls 1 and 2. You don't get dumpstered by Yasuo before lvl 3 and you start winning with pretty much every champ. You don't get dumpstered as Talon before lvl 3 and you start winning most matchups. It's really not that complicated. Add in the fact that Yasuo has one of the weakest lvl 6 powerspikes in the game and Talon has one of the strongest and your narrative really doesn't hold up.
Auz the Ripper2 votestalon does have a weak early game. he doesn't really become a threat until he has his ult, which happens right around the start of the midgame.
DunkinNoobs2 votesI think you'll find that, assuming equal health, E-W-AA-Q will win you most trades against most champs from lvl 3 onward. Before that? Pretty weak. That's why I explained it the way I did. Talon doesn't have a weak early game. He has a weak lvls 1 and 2. But once he's lvl 3? All bets are off.
Auz the Ripper3 votesE-W-AA-Q nets talon 228 damage against the target at level three
brand's combo with two AAs at the same level is 365 damage plus 12% of the target's max health
leblanc deals 395 damage with the same set up
karthus has him beat, assuming this trade took 2 seconds, with 340 damage.
zed gets 302 damage off in this trade
yasuo is pretty much only champion who commonly goes midlane and would lose to talon in this trade.
most of talon's damage is from bonus AD ratios and his ult; it's why tank talon was never a thing even when tank assassins were in their prime. Levels 1 through 5 he has neither bonus AD nor his ult and is a sitting duck.
DunkinNoobs3 votesYour math seems awful. A typical talon, at minimum, will have 79 AD at lvl 3, assuming he started corrupting pot. W will do 78 damage. The first auto will do 79 damage. The Q auto will do 138 damage. All told, that's 295 damage. But wait, you have to account for the damage amp from his passive and his E as well. So tack on another 13% damage= 333 damage. But wait, Talon also has thunderlords, and that damage is also increased by those modifiers, so add another 50 magic damage. So you do 383 damage with that combo, and that's without accounting for any damage that corrupting pot may do. Those numbers go even higher if Talon started an AD item instead of Corrupting pot.
So yeah, Talon can most certainly compete with other champs at lvl 3.
MLDzXnRRR2 votesYour math seems awful. A typical talon, at minimum, will have 79 AD at lvl 3, assuming he started corrupting pot. W will do 78 damage. The first auto will do 79 damage. The Q auto will do 138 damage. All told, that's 295 damage. But wait, you have to account for the damage amp from his passive and his E as well. So tack on another 13% damage= 333 damage. But wait, Talon also has thunderlords, and that damage is also increased by those modifiers, so add another 50 magic damage. So you do 383 damage with that combo, and that's without accounting for any damage that corrupting pot may do. Those numbers go even higher if Talon started an AD item instead of Corrupting pot.
So yeah, Talon can most certainly compete with other champs at lvl 3.
Talon mains play him with armor pen runes, so your math is just wrong...
Also the guy that says Yasuo gets outtraded by Talon probably never played Yasuo vs Talon. You have to get rid of the passive shield, but the wall screws your W and ult. If you basic attack the Yasuo to remove the shield you will lose most of your health in the trade. W can be blocked and if not, he will disengage. Yasuo with a Deadmans and Randuins can never die to Talon in 1v1 later. You basically can kill him only at lvl 6 and every time your ult is up until he gets some tank stats (if he doesn't outplay you with a pink ward/ dashing in the wave/ flashing).
Teklm1 votesLevel 6 is pretty early on in the game. I don't think I could call something that happens before 10 minutes midgame.
Auz the Ripper2 votesi think of level 6 as the exact start of midgame. That's when people are going to start roaming and objectives are going to start to be looked at usually.
ChaddyFantome1 votesYasuo doesn't have a strong early game. He has a strong lvls 1 and 2. Talon doesn't have a weak early game. He has a weak lvls 1 and 2. You don't get dumpstered by Yasuo before lvl 3 and you start winning with pretty much every champ. You don't get dumpstered as Talon before lvl 3 and you start winning most matchups. It's really not that complicated. Add in the fact that Yasuo has one of the weakest lvl 6 powerspikes in the game and Talon has one of the strongest and your narrative really doesn't hold up.
This is ridiculous. how do winrates evaluate a goddamn laning phase power of a champion?
Yasuo does DOES have one of the stronge level 6. Are we talking about the same champion here? The different in spike from him to Talon is wide because Yasuo , unlike talon , isn't shit in lane before 6.
Like, i can't believe someone is seriously trying to tell me Talon has a good laning phase. He literally just W's over and over. His Lane phase is binary and predictable and heavily depended on the opponent making mistakes. there is no room to make plays.
Yasuo on the other hand has almost complete control of the lane.
Yasuo mains a re delusional as hell.
DunkinNoobs1 votesCompared to nearly every other champ of his kind, Yasuo's lvl 6 is garbage. Name 1 fighter or assassin with a weaker lvl 6 powerspike than Yasuo. The only ones you're going to find are 
for obvious reasons, and they all have godlike early games to make up for their lack of a strong lvl 6 powerspike.
ChaddyFantome1 votesCompared to nearly every other champ of his kind, Yasuo's lvl 6 is garbage. Name 1 fighter or assassin with a weaker lvl 6 powerspike than Yasuo. The only ones you're going to find are
Yasuo is not a fighter or Assassin. he is a Skirmisher, and Their level 6's aren't much different than his.
I'd argue his is about in the running for the best amoung his kind.
DunkinNoobs2 votesYou're kidding me if you think his ult is anywhere near as strong of a powerspike as any of those champs. Yasuo's ult is as big of a powerspike as Master Yi, Riven, and Fiora's ult? Give me a fucking break.
Mindworm Jim3 votes_Disclaimer _: I have not yet encountered a tank Yasuo build, so I'm going off second-hand information.
Someone somewhere suggested making the bonus armor penetration from his ultimate only apply to critical hits, which I like because it means a non-crit Yasuo build loses a lot of potential power whereas the damage builds don't even notice there's a nerf.
gottrjr7 votesYasuo is a piece of shit champ with an overloaded bullshit outplay kit. He is in almost every normals game and should't exist in the game at all. How the fuck are you going to give him:
ALL FOR 0 FUCKING MANA!!!!!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!!!?!!!!!!?!!!!!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!!!!!?
FFS fix this bullshit ass champ.
Elewd4 votesyou forgot his bonus sheild on his passive.
T3mp0r4ry5 votesThat he gets for walking EDIT: Fire CertainlyT
Vistha Kai1 votesA shield that last a whole second after getting tagged by a mage's basic attack.
Not xPeke1 votes[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eTX9EJn7,comment-id=001400000002,timestamp=2016-08-09T22:34:07.734+0000)
A shield that last a whole second after getting tagged by a mage's basic attack.
You have to admit that having the shield pop up everytime he ults is kind of a pain in the... The amount of times I've seen a Yasuo on 100 health, only for him to manage to sneak his ult and get a shield and kill his opponent.
Imo it shouldn't come back up while he ults, he's already CCing the target/s. That's enough.
Vistha Kai1 votesIt wasn't back then on his release, but back then he also was generating up to 20% Flow per Sweeping Dash for maxing Windwall, so... it's one thing for the other.
Not xPeke1 votes[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eTX9EJn7,comment-id=00140000000200000000,timestamp=2016-08-10T13:41:14.807+0000)
It wasn't back then on his release, but back then he also was generating up to 20% Flow per Sweeping Dash for maxing Windwall, so... it's one thing for the other.
Still doesn't make it right that he gains a shield while already having you cc'd and dealing damage to you. if he's that low health he should either try and get out of the fight or hope the ultimate kill his target. He shouldn't be allowed that extra safety while doing all that.
And people complain about Ekko ult smh.
Vistha Kai1 votes"Right" and "wrong" are subjective.
Needless to say, Yasuo is quite mediocre, despite having that bit of safety.
Not xPeke1 votes[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eTX9EJn7,comment-id=0014000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-10T21:26:29.369+0000)
"Right" and "wrong" are subjective.
Needless to say, Yasuo is quite mediocre, despite having that bit of safety.
They're just as subjective like your opinion on Yasuo which you've been spamming on this post, repying to every single post that doesn't agree with your point of view.
Vistha Kai1 votesYou are right. I should never try to hold a discussion about something, that I do not agree with.
Well, at the end of the day my opinion is "Git gud", because people seriously need to stop bitching about Yasuo.
He's on the verge of being absolutely useless and they want to nerf him further.
Not xPeke1 votes[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eTX9EJn7,comment-id=001400000002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-11T15:34:23.226+0000)
You are right. I should never try to hold a discussion about something, that I do not agree with.
Well, at the end of the day my opinion is "Git gud", because people seriously need to stop bitching about Yasuo.
He's on the verge of being absolutely useless and they want to nerf him further.
You can easily hold a discussion about something, as long as you remember your own words. Just like you commented on something being subjective, SO IS YOUR OPINION.
That's why i'm surprised you are vehemently posting day after day, post after post, trying to defend Yasuo. Your view on Yasuo is subjective as well.
And talking others down because you think they have to "Git gud", or saying that Yasuo is "absolutely useless" (which he most certainly isn't) is your own, subjective point of view.
Vistha Kai1 votesSee, the point is, I do remember my words. Like I never said "Yasuo is absolutely useless". Those are your words.
And I'm not defensing Yasuo as much as I oppose the "We hate Yasuo" movement, which would be also true for a lot champions.
Insolent Fools5 votesLol americans rly are bad at the game
Yasuo's a terrible champion that can be utterly abused in all phases of the game.
Zedex1 votesWhile your assumption may be true, mine also may be true by saying Europeans must be really bad at Yasuo.
Insolent Fools2 votesNo, he really can be abused, his kit is extremely abusable, despite it having a lot of positives, he has no real escape unless there's minions lined up for him. He's very vulnerable to ganks.
