2 melee and 8 ranged Champs on world's rn

FalconPawwwwnch·Oct 22, 2016·41 votes·2,423 views

Ya keep telling us ranged Champs don't have an inherent advantage

58 Comments

MimyOct 22, 20167 votes

The team with the two melee champions winning...

Melee's won't be buffed anytime soon.

Mira Arya EntheOct 22, 20166 votes

Historically range has always been an advantage and always will be. If you can hurt somebody further away than they can hurt you, what isn't an advantage about that?

FalconPawwwwnchOct 22, 201610 votes

No other moba has this much of an imbalance between melee and range fyi

Nice excuse

jaymc1130Oct 22, 20164 votes

{quoted}

No other moba has this much of an imbalance between melee and range fyi

Nice excuse

Depends how far back you want to go in Moba history. The original mobas that were Star Craft Brood War User Map Settings mods were all terribly imbalanced in favor of ranged characters. Every single one of those moba incarnations were massively in favor of ranged characters. This was an obvious flaw and by the time WC3 UMS mods were coming out like DotA that issue had been addressed and there was much better balance between melee and ranged. This game has devolved from that point, and its largely due to the incompetence of Riot in general.

Very Hard EngageOct 22, 20165 votes

suggestion... just a suggestion on this one.

remove keystones for all. buff tank items.

ranged now has to kite instead of burst. and building half tank half damage actually rewards you for getting close.

tired of jhin 1300 crits. etc. one rotation of abilities just shouldn't kill someone.

Best Kog NAOct 22, 20164 votes

Yes, buff tank items after we just came out of a tank meta. The tank meta was horrible, I'd rather not bring it back.

Irelia BotOct 22, 201618 votes

tank meta?

We have been in marksmen meta since season 1.

Whoever best deals with marksmen are the underdogs that get the most play time but marksmen are always mandatory.

Best Kog NAOct 22, 20162 votes

Tank ekko and tank fizz.

Critmaster GarenOct 22, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Kog NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gLxEqrEX,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-22T02:59:41.104+0000)

Tank ekko and tank fizz.

this was an issue with their kits that is changed with the assassin update. (the % damage on fizz w is going away for example)

for one, fervor of battle was almost soley responsible for assassins being able to build bruiser and still having enough reliable damage to duel people. the mastery just adds a fuckton of item independent damage to everyone who picks it up and likes to auto attack.

but it was also due to the % health damage and utility in these champion kits.

so they became better bruisers than the champions who are actually balanced around being bruisers. highly mobile assassin and skirmisher kits with high outplay potential who at the same time dealt reliable damage and were hard to kill.

dragon1xxOct 22, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Kog NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gLxEqrEX,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-22T02:59:41.104+0000)

Tank ekko and tank fizz.

Not tanks. Assassins going bruiser. Tanks are ppl with CC and hard engages like Alistar or Malphite . Fizz and Ekko have both one hard CC and it is delayed on both of them.

ForgiveColourOct 22, 20167 votes

Lets pretend lcs wasnt 6 tanks meta before rito decide to buff ranged top laners LUL

Sona x RubickOct 22, 20164 votes

ybur post, i just learned to downvote and move on

if you want me to learn the opposite, show me an lcs game with 6 tanks.

AbyssphereOct 23, 20161 votes

He's right though. There was a time this season when every game was Poppy/Gragas/Alistar vs Shen/Rek'Sai/Braum. Melee champions are typically very popular in the LCS and we've only just came into ranged top and support metas. Support in particular is VERY rarely ranged in general, and has been melee for the best part of two years. Top has occasional instances of ranged champions dominating but is usually ranged vs melee at worst. Jungle is ALWAYS melee with the exception of transform champions and because this is ADC season, people like Graves.

We're currently in a meta flooded with ranged champions, but that's not indicative of an inherent advantage for ranged champions or else the loooooong periods of time where melee champions dominate would indicate that melee champions have an inherent advantage.

Sona x RubickOct 23, 20161 votes

reksai isn't a tank

braum was retarded not because of itemization but because his kit prevents melee from moving shen again wasn't pick for his tankiness, but because of global pressure

gragas was the only retarded one, being able to 100-0 while going full tank, and countering the other tanks with %hp damage.

moral of the story: lcs never had 6 tanks in a game.

AbyssphereOct 23, 20161 votes

Rek'Sai is a tank, lol. She's one of the only junglers who actually builds Cinderhulk (the tank enchant!!) and her only use is engaging on enemies by knocking them up. You have no reason to say she's not a tank whatsoever besides needing additional arguments to try and weaken mine.

Why the hell are you justifying why those champions were picked? It doesn't matter. They were tanks that were in games. That's all that needs to be true for that person to be correct. Nobody even said anything about tanks being picked for their tankiness or their itemisation, just that they were picked.

You are really desperate to paint the world to suit your agenda but your attempts to do so are really, really weak. LCS has had 6 tanks in a game a billion times and even if not 6 tanks, 6 melee people in general. That is factual.

Sona x RubickOct 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

. LCS has had 6 tanks in a game a billion times and even if not 6 tanks, 6 melee people in general. That is factual.

lol yeah, i would have agreed if he said that 6 melees were picked, but 6 tanks is bullshit

and why am i trying to tell you why they were picked? because none was picked because he tanked too much damage, but rather because this pick has an overpowered utility aka shen/reksai.

AbyssphereOct 23, 20161 votes

You still haven't even justified your bizarre claim that Rek'Sai isn't a tank, so there's no reason for anyone to believe that 6 tanks is bullshit anyway.

Everyone is picked because there's something overpowered about them, what sort of argument is that? Karma's picked because of her overpowered team-wide shield and speed boost, Kennen is picked because of his ridiculous AOE damage, Nami is picked because of her overpowered sustain in lane, etc etc. There is no difference here at all.

A melee meta happens when a bunch of melee champions happen to be too strong. A ranged meta happens when that's the case for ranged champions. Yet, you don't see anyone in this thread saying the ranged meta "doesn't count" because there's reasons for X, Y and Z ranged champion being popular.

MohawkBirdOct 22, 20161 votes

[deleted]

WoonStruckOct 22, 20162 votes

Actually, it has been an ADC meta since season 1.

Whatever meta it is at the time, its always referred to by what best handles ADCs.

If you think that's not all about ADCs, I really don't know what to tell you.

Ranged ADCs are both picked for their teamfighting AND objective control. Melee carries have never once been acceptable in place of them.

Despite Jhin's design, a high-AP mage has never been an acceptable replacement, even though their objective control is arguably equal to his.

AirKingNeoOct 22, 20161 votes

Remove keystones and have a boring game? Why?

Buff tank items? Or just buff doran's vs ranged autos if you are melee and nerf Last Whisper upgrades.

Very Hard EngageOct 22, 20164 votes

theres decision making and then theres "the first hard lead wins."

the only way to turn games around these days is for the enemy team to throw at baron. otherwise its secured gg ez.

WoonStruckOct 22, 20161 votes

Ironically, keystones have made the game even more boring.

They prevent champions that don't essentially abuse one from ever becoming meta.

AirKingNeoOct 22, 20161 votes

Except no champion is abusing a keystone.

Best Kog NAOct 22, 20164 votes

They are meant to have an inherent advantage. Do you know the phrase don't bring a knife to a gun fight? It's not because they're supposed to be on an even playing field.

Mira Arya EntheOct 22, 201620 votes

The difference is this is a videogame where characters are suppose to be balanced. So that range has to be counteracted in a meaningful manner so all champions are useful and see play >.>

MimyOct 22, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gLxEqrEX,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-10-22T02:44:10.214+0000)

so all champions are useful and see play

You do realize how hard that would be to actually make true? I mean Riots been trying to like 10 years? xD

Sometimes I think they should slow down because the more champions they have the more they have to balance around.

How many more "Unique" champions can you make until you make things either

too similar Garen Kindred sharing a similar mechanic..

or too broken if viable? Kalista

Kled is awesome I won't lie, but it's like.... slow down.. xD

Big LincolnOct 22, 201612 votes

doesn't seem to be too hard for other games

Mira Arya EntheOct 22, 20162 votes

Other games manage range vs melee fine... Like Heroes of the storm, as one example.

MimyOct 22, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gLxEqrEX,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2016-10-22T03:36:12.884+0000)

Other games manage range vs melee fine... Like Heroes of the storm, as one example.

You realize league has 3 times the amount of things to balance right?

Hots doesn't have as much heroes as champions in league. Hots doesn't have items that you build. And hots as I remember doesn't have runes or mysteries.

I tried that game out before you just can't compare it with league.

WhatAGeiniusOct 22, 20163 votes

DotA has at least as many things to balance around, if not more, and it manages to balance melee vs ranged.

Best princess EUOct 22, 20163 votes

dota has like 5 more mechanics than league

disjoint and magic immunity being one of them it has a shit tone of overpowered item to balance but well.

you can't say if dota2 has more things to balance, but that's sure that they have as more things to balance as league.

The Blue RajahOct 22, 20162 votes

What mechanic do garen and kindred share?

dapositivevikingOct 22, 20161 votes

attack move

PermabannedGarenOct 22, 201610 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Kog NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gLxEqrEX,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-10-22T02:42:12.854+0000)

They are meant to have an inherent advantage. Do you know the phrase don't bring a knife to a gun fight? It's not because they're supposed to be on an even playing field.

Are you making a joke, or are you really as dumb as you just made yourself sound, lol?

RivuoOct 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Are you making a joke, or are you really as dumb as you just made yourself sound, lol?

I mean his quote is pretty spot on but fucking stupid to use here lol

Starfish HOct 22, 20162 votes

So what do you want ranged champions to do have melee range? And what do you want melee Champs to do have ranged autos? How would you fix it enlighten me. Melee Champs and Ranged Champs counter each other. Melee can gap close and even if they don't have one they have Deadman or a MS buff in their kit and have a form of cc to prevent kiting. IF a Melee champ gets the first drop they almost always win. Meanwhile Ranged Champs have to kite and peel for themselves or rely on others. The only advantage is range and even then as I said we have some sort of CC to gap close or a dash. Please maybe one day the Boards can complain about something not stupid.

Big LincolnOct 22, 201613 votes

remove perfect kiting because it's the source of almost all of the ranged v melee problems

Starfish HOct 22, 20163 votes

Perfect kiting should be rewarded for perfect kiting. If you fuck up your kite you die. It's a risk and reward.

Critmaster GarenOct 22, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=Starfish H,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gLxEqrEX,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-10-22T03:05:04.731+0000)

Perfect kiting should be rewarded for perfect kiting. If you fuck up your kite you die. It's a risk and reward.

really, then why do adc get so many get out of jail free cards in case they fuck up? seems a bit onesided to me.

and if i get a perfect engagement on a vayne as a melee champion, why is she still able to just straight up stat check and kill me, or pop a few item actives and resume kiting?

Starfish HOct 22, 20161 votes

I can name only about 4 with a free jail free cards. Vayne, Lucian, MF (if you cant get to her first) and Varus. Everyone else is immobile and can be blown up by an assassain. It's strange how the one thing the board hates is now the counter to one of the Boards hate of the month.

Critmaster GarenOct 22, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=Starfish H,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gLxEqrEX,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-22T03:32:15.677+0000)

I can name only about 4 with a free jail free cards. Vayne, Lucian, MF (if you cant get to her first) and Varus. Everyone else is immobile and can be blown up by an assassain. It's strange how the one thing the board hates is now the counter to one of the Boards hate of the month.

quinn? caits net? tristanas entire kit?

but im not even talking about adc kits themsleves. im mainly talking about their itemization.

item 3046 damage reduction item 3072 shield item 3139 cleanse and movement speed buff

stacked on top of their self peel abilities its getting ridiculous.

AirKingNeoOct 22, 20162 votes

you forget the 12% massive MS off PD.

Hinagiku33Oct 22, 20167 votes

Ezreal is immobile. Seems legit.

Big LincolnOct 22, 20168 votes

perfect kiting breaks the dynamic and is extremely unfair to melees; to my knowledge no other MOBA allows it thanks to turn speeds

Starfish HOct 22, 20162 votes

If you're getting kites that hard then you shouldn't fight them one and wait for another teammate. Kiting only works against one player, not if their whole teat is there. If you have a problem with kiting don't fight alone and bring teammates.

PoskeOct 22, 20162 votes

Just dota2

Sona x RubickOct 22, 20162 votes

LOL

what about HON?

LeetriOct 22, 20161 votes

Is that game even alive still? I haven't heard anyone mention HoN for years. Edit: Classic boards, downvoting someone for asking a legitimate question.

Sona x RubickOct 22, 20162 votes

it has a really small amount of player, something like 1 million , but it's still alive since there is still competition.

Critmaster GarenOct 22, 201614 votes

[{quoted}](name=Starfish H,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gLxEqrEX,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-22T02:49:45.455+0000)

So what do you want ranged champions to do have melee range? And what do you want melee Champs to do have ranged autos? How would you fix it enlighten me. Melee Champs and Ranged Champs counter each other. Melee can gap close and even if they don't have one they have Deadman or a MS buff in their kit and have a form of cc to prevent kiting. IF a Melee champ gets the first drop they almost always win. Meanwhile Ranged Champs have to kite and peel for themselves or rely on others. The only advantage is range and even then as I said we have some sort of CC to gap close or a dash. Please maybe one day the Boards can complain about something not stupid.

we could start by not giving them additional masteries that makes it even easier for them to push melees out of lane.

then there is the possibility to have item passives less effective on ranged characters compared to melee characters, or entirely restricting them to melee champions.

there are a bunch of possibilities to even the playing field.

the problem is, in recent times riot just said "screw it" and removed the ranged penalties more and more from items and masteries. i dont know if you noticed, but double edged sword doesnt add more damage taken on ranged champs anymore.

item 3142 suddenly had no penalty for ranged champions on its passive and every marksman started to pick it up since it was changed already.

rylais and mallets passive had seen buffs to their slows for ranged champions. especially mallet used to have a lot weaker slow on ranged champions in the past.

theyre really stingy when it comes to adding the melee only tag to items that are explicitly designed for melee champions, and dance around the issue by trying to fiddle with small stat adjustments.

i mean they rather made maw and steraks not stack at all anymore, instead of making steraks a gooddamn melee item.