The real reason nobody likes Riven and Yasuo is because they have nothing to manage in lane

FalconPawwwwnch·Dec 13, 2016·188 votes·10,910 views

Both have insanely low cooldowns and no long windows when you can fight them

Riven being able to keep up her Q's because of how the cooldown works and Yasuo's everything

Other champions have to manage mana, cooldowns where they're very vulnerable (when Jax's E is down), or some other resource (Tryndamere and Renekton being much weaker when they don't have fury stacked up)

Riven and yasuo have none of this, so it makes fighting them frustrating even when they aren't top tier

277 Comments

Meep ManDec 13, 201687 votes

My main issue is that they decide when a fight happens and 99% of the time you can't.

Zero Skill TankDec 13, 201618 votes

So much this. And even if they pock a bad fight, if you Lack Just 5% damage needed for a kill, they Just dash away like nothing happened.

deadlychuckDec 13, 201646 votes

This is an important aspect of all forms of fighting, which riot really never seems to address in the game's balance.

#Initiative. The reason champions like Riven LeeSin Yasuo Zed Ahri are so popular when they are anything more than total trash, is because they ALWAYS have the initiative. To lose the initiative on these champions in a 1v1 requires multiple mistakes in sequence, and the appropriate response from the enemy, assuming they even can.

Take a champion with no CC and no Mobility like Mordekaiser , as an extreme fringe case. The ONLY way that any of these champions die to him, is to commit, misplay, and miscalculate his damage output.

LordSirChipmunkDec 13, 20168 votes

I wouldn't say Ahri fits as much as the others do. Yes, her Charm has a good 975 range or whatever, but it can still easily be dodged or countered, like Yasuo 's Wind Wall. Just standing behind minions can let you engage before she does. This is coming from a level 7 Ahri main, by the way.

On a side note, these are very fair points, and it's really why champions like Mordekaiser could use some buffs. Another example of this was pre-rework Yorick .

AazzlanoDec 14, 201623 votes

Her Q and Ult make her ultra-safe, the E is just icing on the cake. Her and the other champs can disengage so reliably AND have very strong sticking, that they can choose to only fight favorable fights and almost can't be fought on your terms. Leblanc is similar as well.

sir d wreckDec 14, 20167 votes

So many times I've seen an Ahri who gets caught just use her ult as a get out of jail card because she knows it'll be back up again pretty quickly, assuming flash is down.

Big LincolnDec 13, 201625 votes

I hate that Riven can jump on me with no warning and dump a ton of damage in the span of two seconds

and then the second she starts losing those trades she can jump away and play like a bitch

SpookyNeedleDec 13, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gJ7Bap3w,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-12-13T19:11:37.782+0000)

I hate that Riven can jump on me with no warning and dump a ton of damage in the span of two seconds

and then the second she starts losing those trades she can jump away and play like a bitch

It'd only be no warning if she flashed on you or wall hopped from fog of war, and even then there's a timeframe when you can flash away from the 3rd Q

Big LincolnDec 13, 201615 votes

because there's a lot of telegraph when we're both CSing and she suddenly EQWs onto me

NarasimhaDec 13, 20168 votes

That's literally no different than Renekton EWQing you. Same for Darius. Or Pantheon. Or Irelia.

Big LincolnDec 13, 201614 votes

darius has a delayed Q and no mobility

the rest of those champions are already agreed to be cancer; but besides Irelia they aren't currently in meta

xenomorphking12Dec 13, 20161 votes

i think he meant the q windup flash e w thing that you can do to surprise people as darius

JoseraphDec 14, 20166 votes

summoner 4 5 minute cooldown

TotalJerkDec 13, 20165 votes

Pantheon and Irelia are actually up for a rework at some point because of that bullshit, and Darius can't really do that anymore since they made his Q more telegraphed.

Stormshadow3503Dec 14, 20162 votes

Darius doesn't have a knockup or stun

DemainaNyxDec 14, 20167 votes

{quoted}

Darius doesn't have a knockup or stun

His hook is a displacement, which counts as a knockup for Yas ult. So...

TotalJerkDec 13, 20165 votes

https://clips.twitch.tv/tsm_bjergsen/StrangeGnatFailFish

Shit like that is actually extremely common from high elo Rivens.

HideOnUrMomsBushDec 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

https://clips.twitch.tv/tsm_bjergsen/StrangeGnatFailFish

Shit like that is actually extremely common from high elo Rivens.

Bjerg isn't an experienced top laner and probably isn't too familiar with double casting. Double casting starts with an E, and if Bjerg were expecting it, he could do what Impact did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlqbPwUttSs

Impact flashed out when Adrian tried to double cast, but still died in the end to Windslash.

PB4UAMEDec 14, 201612 votes

So, she abuses a bug in the game's code that Riot turns a blind eye to, to get multiple abilities to cast at the same time to instantly outpour more burst damage than any other champion in the game could in that amount of time and with those items, fucks it up, gets appropriately counterplayed by a laner who is ahead of her, tanks a bunch of free minion damage, and still wins-- this being your counter argument to that type of play being bullshit?

I. . . what?

TheTrueQuarianDec 14, 20166 votes

Thats why i hate Riven players.

FriusDec 13, 201621 votes

manaless shields knockups mobility

DreampodDec 14, 20162 votes

You forgot AOE waveclear which is a important problem since it largely eliminates the risks that allow enemies to trade back against them when melee champs go in for last hits.

Umbra IoniaDec 13, 201620 votes

No. People doesn´t like Riven because animation cancelling is like a bug, she has a shield, free stats (hello Aatrox you was nerfed for that) and 0 cd. Oh and she also has CC.

People doesn´t like Yasuo because free stats, insane mobility, poke, range (Q), CC and the motherfucking Windwall.

DunkinNoobsDec 13, 201618 votes

This is retarded. Of course they have things to manage during laning phase, even if it's not a resource. Yasuo has his shield, his Q stacks, his E stacks, and his dashes on individual targets.

HazyCloud7Dec 13, 201647 votes

All he has to do is walk around to get his shield.

You call that management? lol

DunkinNoobsDec 13, 201633 votes

Trading without your shield will lose you the lane. That means you have to play differently when it's down. The good Yasuo's will go in to trade right as it refreshes so they can use it without getting it poked off. That's absolutely managing it.

deadlychuckDec 13, 20167 votes

Well that's true, unless you get a slight lead and then have the power to force a kill onto the lane opponent if they even step out of tower range to farm.

DunkinNoobsDec 13, 20165 votes

You definitely need more than a slight lead to zone people that hard. And he's certainly not as good at it as many champions I could name.

deadlychuckDec 13, 20162 votes

You really don't depending on the champion you're against. The CD on his 3xQ against melee champions means he can effectively zone most without some form of dash. Not to mention it also acts as an initiation tool and instantly refreshes his shield, no matter the range.

DunkinNoobsDec 13, 20164 votes

So the champion needs to be melee, squishy, and have no dash? That sounds like exactly 0 champions. The only champion that even comes close is Gangplank and Yasuo can't ever ult him anyway.

deadlychuckDec 13, 20164 votes

No they dont' have to be squishy.

They just need to not be able to out 1v1 yasuo.

That's a much larger category of champions than "squishy"

Nameless VoiceDec 13, 20167 votes

Evelynn

DunkinNoobsDec 14, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gJ7Bap3w,comment-id=00050000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-12-13T23:55:42.154+0000)

Call me when you see a Yasuo vs. Eve lane. Because I've played Yasuo 1000+ times and never seen it.

Supreme Senpai69Dec 14, 201629 votes

That's because of her passive, silly.

Spaceman5pffDec 13, 201610 votes

And this is why we play Renekton .

Even the biggest of lane bullies can't reliably shut down a Renekton.

Oh and take ignite, fuck their bitch, then pillage their village.

Troll for TrumpDec 13, 20166 votes

Thing is, Yas is supposed to be a lategame hypercarry, not an early bully. He should be weak early, or be punished.

A champ can either be a bully or a lategame carry. If you do both, you're a toxic champion.

See some player opinions on Caitlyn and Vayne for instance.

SkiasDec 14, 20167 votes

{quoted}

Thing is, Yas is supposed to be a lategame hypercarry, not an early bully. He should be weak early, or be punished.

A champ can either be a bully or a lategame carry. If you do both, you're a toxic champion.

See some player opinions on and for instance.

This is it. Yasuo was never meant to be durable or early game bully. Look at his spotlight. He's supposed to be a team dependent late game carry. He's none of those things today, which is why he's about to get hit with nerfs.

EternalShredDec 14, 20161 votes

well, his laning phase is fine , i wouldn't call him a bully but it is certainly strong and because of how cheap statik shiv and phantom dancer are , it gives him a early pwer spike if he farmed well (which is very easy on him) and got a kill or two

SkiasDec 14, 20164 votes

{quoted}

well, his laning phase is fine , i wouldn't call him a bully but it is certainly strong and because of how cheap statik shiv and phantom dancer are , it gives him a early pwer spike if he farmed well (which is very easy on him) and got a kill or two

He can die two or three times, hit the same powerspike and still get fed. His lane performance has relatively little impact on his lategame if he has champs that can spoon feed him his ult.

HazyCloud7Dec 14, 20163 votes

That's not really the resource management OP is getting at though. Every champion has to lane around their key ability cooldowns.

AlmightyDec 13, 20169 votes

The real reason nobody likes Riven and Yasuo is because of their playerbase.

Riven and Yasuo players take even the most regular non-importnant games overly seriously. They believe that the entire game revolves around them and the entire team comp has to synchonize with them. How many times has an instalocked Yasuo told you to pick knockups?

And if you by any chance displease a Yasuo or Riven player, get a gas mask because you will probavly be bombarded with toxicity.

Opinions are based on personal experience. Not stereotypes.

Almighty.

JoseraphDec 14, 20165 votes

I've never seen a Riven say "pick x champion or I'll open mid". Riven player's might be dicks, but they're more like Nasus mains than Yas mains

Usernamehere1235Dec 13, 20168 votes

I'd agree. Both Yasuo and Riven have really low downtimes that make them extremely unapproachable.

And as a matter of fact, both Yasuo and Riven as an example have really high uptime in terms of extra damage or cc pressure. Riven has her auto damage from her passive, and Yasuo has his cc which he can keep up for 10 seconds every time.

This makes them both excellent top laners.

DengedenDec 14, 20161 votes

That's beyond absurd. Riv and Yas aren't frustrating because they can't run oom. Competent players don't run oom.

MonkeyMadnessDec 14, 20169 votes

You dumb? Some champs can't trade without blowing a crapload of mana on a combo. Like jax, for instance. If you just sit there and farm, sure, you won't run out of mana, but if you actually fight, you run out really fast. This is why resource-less champs with low cd are a problem. They can FORCE a trade, their opponent uses up their mana, then they have a huge advantage.

It's certainly not the ONLY reason why riven and yasuo are hated, but it certainly contributes to it.

EROTIC RAID BOSSDec 14, 20162 votes

that's true but in yasuo's case mid lane, he risks his HP when he tries to go in, compared to most mages who are safer when trading. throwing out a spell doesn't cost anything except mana.

AdriqnoheeDec 14, 20162 votes

If only he had a shield that pops up the moment he takes damage, or a special wall that cancels any projectile that was thrown at it, oh if only Yasuo was built to deal with mages in the mid lane.

EROTIC RAID BOSSDec 14, 20162 votes

duh that's why he has moments when he can trade well, and then when you trade with him when those aren't up you win. that's like, basic design philosophy for the champs, you give them windows they're strong and windows they're weak.

AdriqnoheeDec 14, 20161 votes

That's the thing, the lack of resources and low cooldown on his spells, means his window of opportunity is MUCH slower than other champions, so unless you have a point and click hard control that can't be stopped by his wall, you're not going to be able to make use of the small windows he live, but if he wants to punish you he doesn't have to wait until you blow something up, he can engage and disengage as he wants, he chooses the fights he will be in, and unless he FUCKS UP you're not going to be able to punish him.

DengedenDec 14, 20162 votes

I don't why this is such a popular lie. If Yasuo doesn't get a lead, you can get your mana item and permapush him in.