@Meddler Aatrox Blood Well Passive starts decaying every 5 seconds. This is ridiculous.

Kingsgrave·May 14, 2015·6 votes·788 views

Aatrox's Blood Well decays at a rate of 2% per second after not being in combat for 5 seconds

5 seconds is extremely low for this type of passive, since its basically a pseudo Rage mechanic

After 12 seconds it decays by 4% (4 Fury) per second After 8 seconds it decays by 5% (5 fury) per second After 5 seconds it decays by 2% per second

Aatrox has to constantly hurt himself in order to stop his Well from rapidly depleting, Tryndamere and Renekton don't

He also has highish CDs and has to basically commit constantly in order to stop half of his bar from disappearing, this makes it hard for him to fight a lot of matchups or jungle effectively.

Can we at least bump this up to 8-10 seconds?

12 Comments

KingsgraveMay 14, 20152 votes

This would help Aatrox out a lot without making him OP again.

Thoughts?

TTUPhoenixMay 15, 20151 votes

Mordekaiser envies champions with passives that forgiving.

KingsgraveMay 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

envies champions with passives that forgiving.

Morde's serves as effective health thats always up because he spams his E and Q. It's also not a resource.

avilusMay 15, 20151 votes

Mordekaiser is just badly designed in general. He has no crowd control or mobility, for starters.

I think you have more to worry about than his passive.

avilusMay 15, 20151 votes

Aatrox is in a pretty weird spot right now. His niche, being combat sustain, is outclassed by other champions who aren't even sustain-based, like Akali and Tryndamere . These champions don't even rely on health or mana.

Everything about Aatrox is watered down because they have to compensate for his revive. His base stats are weak and his ratios are mediocre at best. It's kind of hard for Aatrox to commit to his self-destructive playstyle if he is too fragile to sustain himself through it!

There is really no reason to pick Aatrox over Tryndamere . The barbarian does everything Aatrox can do with triple the force, including defying death. At least Aatrox has a one-second knockup and pitiful ranged harass, right? That should take it to those bastards!

Aatrox needs a few things to diversify himself.** Slow the decay rate/revive cooldown on Blood Well and increase Blades of Torment base damage. ** Other options include** strengthening his base stats, reducing his health costs, and changing his ultimate to an AD instead of an AP ability.** Aatrox does not build AP.

In terms of a rework, Aatrox should actually be centered around combat-sustain in the name of champion diversity. Off the top of my head,** Massacre could give Aatrox a big heal based on the number of champions hit,** fitting both his character and the god damn description of the ability, which reads "Aatrox draws in the blood of his foes...". Get the picture?

Riot can easily add potential counter-attack by adding an AD item that inflicts Grievous Wounds, similar to Executioner's Calling.

Too long, didn't read, brevity is the soul of wit!?

Aatrox is a jack of all trades that doesn't even excel at his own intended specialty. Change him up a bit so he can compete with other heavy-hitters. Remove those useless AP ratios. Slow the decay rate on Blood Well. Revert some of those nerfs. Adjust him to be true to his character. Champion diversity!

KingsgraveMay 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox is in a pretty weird spot right now. His niche, being combat sustain, is outclassed by other champions who aren't even sustain-based, like and . The above champions also don't even rely on health or mana.

Everything about Aatrox is watered down because they have to compensate for his revive. His base stats are weak and his ratios are mediocre at best. It's kind of hard for Aatrox to commit to his self-destructive playstyle if he is too fragile to sustain himself through it!

There is really no reason to pick over . The barbarian does everything Aatrox can do with triple the force, including defying death. At least Aatrox has a one-second knockup and pitiful ranged harass, right?

Aatrox needs a few things to diversify himself. Slow the decay rate on Blood Well, increase Blades of Torment damage, and reduce the cooldown on Blood Well's revive. Other options include strengthening his base stats, reducing his health costs, and changing his ultimate to an AD instead of an AP ability. Aatrox does not build AP.

Yes, No and No.

Reducing CD on revive would push him into OP territory. Same with E damage.

He needs things that round him out without just straight increasing his power. The following would allow him to do better in Top and Jungle without making him OP again. He doesn't need more power, he just needs more rounding off.

Increasing his Health, Armor etc., would just make him ridiculous again. He still needs a weak early game, but not so weak he struggles to do anything.

Less time til Passive decay
Higher base Attack Speed and Attack Speed per level
E doing Physical damage so he can itemize things like
Q travel time scaling with distance traveled (faster if within his auto range)
E slow duration scaling with closeness to Aatrox (3 to 1.5 instead of 1.75/2/2.25/2.5/2.75)

avilusMay 15, 20151 votes

Reducing his revive cooldown would be pretty overpowered, sure. However, reinstating damage into his Blades of Torment would not be. You're crazy if you think those two buffs have equal impact.

Why are you so averse to buffing the power of a champion? Why are you so averse to buffing the durability of a champion?

You are dancing around the issues that overshadow Aatrox as a champion. His weakness lies within his numbers, not his mechanics. Petty, tertiary buffs will bear no progress. No fruit.

Take a step back and think about what you proposed originally. Reducing the decay rate on his blood well would balance him out with champions utilizing a similar resource system. That's a power buff, my friend. And I tell you this right now, a few strengthening buffs to Aatrox's numbers will not make him overpowered.

Aatrox is cool, but he is outclassed by his own creation right now, Tryndamere. You need to look at Aatrox in context to the power of other champions, most notably Tryndamere because they are quite similar. While Tryndamere may be a carry and Aatrox may be a bruiser, there is nothing beyond those classifications that would deem Aatrox superior in any realistic way. That is why Aatrox needs more power. Power. POWER!

I do agree with your proposed changes at the bottom of your post, though. They're good.

KingsgraveMay 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Reducing his revive cooldown would be pretty overpowered, sure. However, reinstating damage into his Blades of Torment would not be. You're crazy if you think those two buffs have equal impact.

Why are you so averse to buffing the power of a champion? Why are you so averse to buffing the durability of a champion?

You are dancing around the issues that overshadow Aatrox as a champion. His weakness lies within his numbers, not his mechanics. Petty, tertiary buffs will bear no progress. No fruit.

Take a step back and think about what you proposed originally. Reducing the decay rate on his blood well would balance him out with champions utilizing a similar resource system. That's a power buff, my friend. And I tell you this right now, a few strengthening buffs to Aatrox's numbers will not make him overpowered.

Aatrox is cool, but he is outclassed by his own creation right now, Tryndamere. You need to look at Aatrox in context to the power of other champions, most notably Tryndamere because they are quite similar. While Tryndamere may be a carry and Aatrox may be a bruiser, there is nothing beyond those classifications that would deem Aatrox superior in any realistic way. That is why Aatrox needs more power. Power. POWER!

I do agree with your proposed changes at the bottom of your post, though. They're good.

Aatrox was OP, then got a nerf to his early game passive AS and his late game E damage. Thats all it took to throw him into the depths of hell. Buffing any of those aspects is wrong.

Aatrox doesn't need bulk or more damage honestly. He's fine in those departments. You can't give him either because then he becomes a lane bully, which is the opposite of what Riot wants, and with the Bulk he just becomes impossible to shove out of lane.

Aatrox is not outclassed by Tryndamere in any way because they aren't similar in terms of class. Former is a Fighter/Tank, latter is a Carry. Former has CC and Utility, Latter is selfish. Aatrox is not meant to be a high damage carry or high damage dealer anyway.

Aatrox is outclassed by Irelia and Xin Zhao because those both have a lot more wiggle room in how they are played, what to max when etc.,

I've played a lot of Aatrox recently and his lack of natural bulk is important to him not being toxic in lane.

He needs QoL stuff, tweaks to how things work and just more incentives to build other items. Right now he is limited to one build path, which every other viable bruiser is not limited to.

Even doing something like adding AP ratios on to his W combined with E and R becoming Physical (R getting AD ratio but less base damage and keeping current AP ratio) would heavily increase his ability to itemize, thus allowing him to be a lot more viable. It would open him up to Trinity, Rageblade, Gunblade, Ghostblade, Last Whisper, Black Cleaver etc.,

Mob Psycho 100May 15, 20151 votes

Should make his Ult deal damage based off of his Max Health or he heals for a certain percentage based off of how many champions he hits with his ult? His W should deal bonus Magic damage instead of Physical, so you wouldnt need the armor pen and it can lead to some fun build paths ( item 3091 item 3115 item 3124 )

Also, if his Ult increases his range, much like Kayles E, why doesnt Runaans proc on his aa?

KingsgraveMay 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Party Thranduil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gJ5QaLJU,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-05-15T02:42:43.344+0000)

Should make his Ult deal damage based off of his Max Health or he heals for a certain percentage based off of how many champions he hits with his ult? His W should deal bonus Magic damage instead of Physical, so you wouldnt need the armor pen and it can lead to some fun build paths ( )

Also, if his Ult increases his range, much like Kayles E, why doesnt Runaans proc on his aa?

Because hes still Melee. It doesn't increase it to 500 like Kayle.

MLDzXnRRRMay 15, 20151 votes

Aatrox has horrible base hp - 537.8, lvl 18 - 1982.8. His combo also takes 15 % of his current HP... His W, if used for damage is also hurting you. Trynda - 625.64, lvl 18 - 2291.6 Irelia - 607.2, 2137.2 Xin - 591.16, 2070.2 The knockup of Aatrox is too easy to be interrupted and if he dies, his passive is useless, because noone will try to help you in solo q. Maybe giving him some tenacity after his passive activates will be good? His and Trist's jumps are also dumb - how can they stop you in the middle of the air? This thing makes 0 sense,

Jungle Lux GodMay 15, 20151 votes

It says it decays after not being in combat for 5 seconds.

Does it mean that you just have to be in combat, or do you have to actually cast your abilities in order to fill your Blood Well?

I don't play Aatrox, so I wouldn't know, but even if it's the former case Aatrox should, in fact, probably still have a longer period of time to keep his blood well up, possibly even longer than Tryndamere and Renekton's fury do, because he actually needs to expend some sort of cost to get his blood well up, while Trynd and Renekton don't.