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Problem with swain and why his kit doesn't work rn

Hibeki··7 votes·577 views
  1. Too fuckin easy to dodge the E

I cant say this enough, if this had better missile speed or a bigger hitbox it would be ok, like Ahri Orb its basically impossible to dodge both ticks if thrown right

This thing is so easy to dodge because of small hitbox/slow flight speed it fucks up his whole rotation

  1. No damage in the kit

Even if you do manage to hit everything, you still do basically no damage

Ult is a glorified sunfire cape, and i mean literally. Level 6 sunfire is only 4 less damage than his base ult damage. Its garbage.

The healing on it is nothing compared to what it once was before, and with grevious wounds means you are healing prob less than 24 per tick, and hitting four people with that. Wow. 100 hp per second. Thats so much when I only live for 3-4 seconds.

  1. Q is overinvested

You invested so much power into Q that it needs to be basically point black at all times to get any effectiveness. And I really doesn't. You said you made it like this so that Swain was a DPS instead of burst mage, you know what was good damage per second? A DOT mage! Oh wait...

  1. W is basically impossible to hit.

The cc chain like you would do with Taliyah is so spread out and so easy to dodge its not likely this thing will land.

Like its meant to be used as a probe but when the thing takes such an unrealistically long time to detonate they will NEVER be hit by it. Like Jhin traps, you NEED cc for this thing to land, and it fails at it's main purpose because of it.

Oh cool it gives a soul fragment. Doesnt mean shit since you aren't there to collect it. You tried to balance it around being an in combat tool as well as a probe tool but unfortunately made it fail miserably at both.

Pick one, hotfix it.

Swain is a steaming hot pile of garbage.

12 Comments

Kai Guy2 votes

  1. is fairly easy to land but you do need to be casting it near max range.

  2. Has plenty of damage in his kit, sustained not burst is the key. Sunfire cap has a fraction of his R's range, and soul burst hurts. level 6 R full duration into 5 stack. (420 + 170%) + (225 + 135%) In an aoe is not weak damage. Difficulty is hitting that best case, that being said, its unlikely you need that best case unless your chronically trying to 100 to 0 some one,

  3. Q is a bit tricky, point blank is the best. I had to swap it to range indicators to start making this ability work better. At max range you want to aim in-between 2 bolts to get 2 hits off, mid range use the 2nd bolt from left or right as your indicator and you can land 3 bots consistently, point blank or near point blank center it on them. Long as your getting some damage Amp its decent damage even at range and its CD means your not crippled if ya spam it.

  4. Does not have to land, use it to cut off excapes or set up E, to check camps, Combo it with other abilitys and teamamtes in fights. Also it gives you the soul shard Regardless of the range as long as it lands.

Oleandervine1 votes

For 4., This is actually not true. I took Swain as a Support, and used E to probe the blue buff bush at the start of the game, and I didn't get the soul shards until I approached close enough to the area I hit the enemies in.

Kai Guy1 votes

https://imgur.com/a/94aiP 0 shards dropped on ground. the birds brought them to swain. Pretty easy to test for yourself in Practice tool. I will be heading to work soon and wont be back till 12-1am so wont be able to follow up more today but if you would like I can go over some replays I have to see if theres any time this does not hold true in a live game. Or you could do the same with your swain support game.

Hibeki4 votes

  1. No, its still easy to dodge.

  2. That amount of damage requiring 12 seconds, is in fact, bad. You will most certainly not live for 12 seconds and nunu ult is just straight better. The healing might as well not even be there

  3. You have nothing to stick to a target point black with this, no mobility, no really cc (A small stun and a yank isn't enough)

  4. An enemy will not choose to corner themselves rather than go through this ability. You can walk through it entirely and have it not go off. If you think its so much of a threat that you are willing to stay back against the wall then you're just bad

Pro players say hes bad

Most people and every elo says hes bad

HES BAD

Kai Guy2 votes
  1. I find it very easy to land so to each their own. triggering it at max range is not to difficult and minions popping it can be used to net the Snare in an aoe with out providing much time to react for your lane opponent. toss out QW passive auto Q auto and hey your tradeing most folks with style.
  2. As i said not necessary to get the full duration. and nunu lacks mobility for his R so its more comparable to say nasus or Renk imo. Healings meh, some what better with ap behind it but if you make him drain tanky your gonna regret it. Point is you ignored the Demonflair burst in your comparison to sunfire. Your claim was it does not do damage at all, it does lots, its just difficult to get that best case and unreliable to bank on it. 4-6 seconds is reasonable to calculate off and you cant ignore Demonflairs damage.
  3. Ya don't really need to stay point blank every fight, low CD, aim for 3 bolts and spam it. Far as mobility goes, item 3152 still exists.
  4. burly slow once it has some levels on it, that alone can make for a strong deterrent, then E covers their path or follows up if they took the hit from W. Its not the damage, its the CC and setup. When you play bard you learn some times you need to cut off paths with his R, knowing it wont hit but will provided enough delay on enemy's to provide time required for some one to get into range. If you cant lead your abilitys and your not aiming them properly that's never a champions fault.

Yes, lets listen to community on first few days of a release, that's always the best idea. I have seen post for the following "Bad" champions whos kits are failures and will never be good with out reworking their abilitys completely. Evelynn Ornn Yasuo Jayce Bard Thresh TahmKench

Better obey everything pros say, things that apply for the top 0.01% of the player base are for shure relevant to the other 99.9% of players who are mechanically incapable of preforming at a pro level or experience the game from their perspectives.

Good thing league of legends is a game you can beat by following a walkthrough right?

You don't have games with new swain in your history, post on a account that does or your entire argument is just built off 2nd hand experience.

Edit, added in some " " that I neglected. derped.

Hibeki1 votes

Except all of those champions are cancer and the only way they would ever be good AND balanced is if you did rework their kit.

There's a difference between only some people saying

and everyone but you saying it.

Kai Guy1 votes

Alright lets also add in AurelionSol Jhin Taliyah Ivern Nami Ziggs Elise Rakan . Lots of "TRASH BAD GARBAGE" posts. I disagreed, felt there was potential in all of them.

Wait are all of them cancer as well?

FurriesAreHot1 votes

You know all the “bad” champions you listed, minus yasuo, are all or were recently, really good or broken?

Kai Guy1 votes

Yes, I was pretty outspoken about eve rework being strong, even before runes reforged hit live. I got flamed over it quite a bit lol. Not a single one of the champions I listed has ended up being bad and have been problematic or strong In a meta. Also why I cherry picked them for my example of when boards and playerbase as a whole has been grossly wrong.

That being said, In the intrest of good faith Yas became a strong champion the day after some one streamed item 3087 build on him. And the tilt on Thresh ended once player base started to understand how to use lantern so both did not really last for a long period of time as "bad" champs. Also just realized I neglected to put Bad in that previous post in-between a pair of " ". Derpd that one.

ModCaliCoastReplay2 votes

My take...

  1. Too fuckin easy to dodge the E

Only if the champion in question is fast, otherwise I'm hitting it well. You just have to be sneaky with it, just like his old W. My issue is not having it dodged - it's that I can't use it to survive ganks now. If I get ganked top, the E will proc on the faraway champion and then generally let the jungler just beat me to pieces. I used to be intensely skilled using his old W to stun 2-3 champions at a time to survive ganks and now I just have to play a lot further back, which isn't as much fun.

  1. No damage in the kit

The damage feels nerfed compared to the old days, but he still dishes out a ton of damage if he gets into Rabadon's. He's more of an AP hog than he used to be. The basic issue I see there is that it feels like Rabadon's has to be a rush for him now, 2nd instead of 3rd-4th, and that comes at the expense of Zhonya's because that was generally his old 2nd core item. He can either have damage or survivability now but not both, which means if he wants kills he has to give up being a frontliner, and if he gets survivability he can't kill anything. I'm not convinced though that this is his fundamental issue, but it does mean he can't stride boldly into battle as he used to, which was not supposed to be the goal.

  1. Q is overinvested

It definitely makes him a burst mage now, not a drain tank. Still though, max rank Q with cooldown reduction dishes out a lot of damage, at least for champions. It doesn't feel entirely terrible to me, except in terms of waveclear. It blows through low health minions just fine, but gets stopped by a single high-health melee or cannon minion even at high AP and max ranked, which is kinda humiliating late in the game.

  1. W is basically impossible to hit.

This is the big one for me - plus the by-design refusal to allow it to be used for waveclear. His waveclear is just terrible now and it really holds me back, and W may be a fun toy for objective steals/long-range "ganks" but that has come at the expense of it being more or less completely useless in lane. I feel like I have two abilities now as a laner most of the time - Q and E - since his R is now down a lot, and W just doesn't work at all. And that's the part that isn't fun for me. His W needs an animation time reduction and a damage buff versus minions, and I stand by that as the most major thing that needs to change in his kit...though apparently the buff they're considering instead is a speedup on the charge time on his ult, which I agree would be nice but don't think will fundamentally fix him.

xxxMadLionxxx1 votes

use his w to zone ur target

Coin2YourWitcher1 votes

{quoted}

  1. Too fuckin easy to dodge the E

I cant say this enough, if this had better missile speed or a bigger hitbox it would be ok, like Ahri Orb its basically impossible to dodge both ticks if thrown right

This thing is so easy to dodge because of small hitbox/slow flight speed it fucks up his whole rotation

  1. No damage in the kit

Even if you do manage to hit everything, you still do basically no damage

Ult is a glorified sunfire cape, and i mean literally. Level 6 sunfire is only 4 less damage than his base ult damage. Its garbage.

The healing on it is nothing compared to what it once was before, and with grevious wounds means you are healing prob less than 24 per tick, and hitting four people with that. Wow. 100 hp per second. Thats so much when I only live for 3-4 seconds.

  1. Q is overinvested

You invested so much power into Q that it needs to be basically point black at all times to get any effectiveness. And I really doesn't. You said you made it like this so that Swain was a DPS instead of burst mage, you know what was good damage per second? A DOT mage! Oh wait...

  1. W is basically impossible to hit.

The cc chain like you would do with Taliyah is so spread out and so easy to dodge its not likely this thing will land.

Like its meant to be used as a probe but when the thing takes such an unrealistically long time to detonate they will NEVER be hit by it. Like Jhin traps, you NEED cc for this thing to land, and it fails at it's main purpose because of it.

Oh cool it gives a soul fragment. Doesnt mean shit since you aren't there to collect it. You tried to balance it around being an in combat tool as well as a probe tool but unfortunately made it fail miserably at both.

Pick one, hotfix it.

Swain is a steaming hot pile of garbage.

HAALAYYY fUCKING LOOYAA couldnt agree more with this coment . give me old swain back please . cant beleive riot fucked this up so much .. every thing relys on hitting the E and u can see it coming a fuckin million miles away , and you can just literaly walk around it LOL.

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