The only thing I can think of is ranged targeted(point and click) hard cc.. excluding summoner exhaust..what else is there?
I'm not flaming about it i'm just trying to figure out what counters it. Closes thing I can say is probably TF's gold card but who would play him support or adc these days..hell who would play him at all considering how this game is now?
GaleWinUnleashed5 votesI play support Lulu. Whimsy shuts down Kalista's mobility for 2.25 seconds, which is usually enough for my team to reach her and take her out.
GloriousKaiser1 votesSo once again, no general counter play?
Laughing Fish4 votesPeople with long enough range (such as 
) or a powerful DoT (such as 
) can still hit her as she jumps. Also, people who are fast enough to stick to her despite her mobility (such as 
) can still melt her. She is harder to hit than most ADC's, but she pays for that power. She melts away very quickly when you actually can hit her.
Romans VI XXIII6 votesShe is harder to hit than most ADC's, but she pays for that power. She melts away very quickly when you actually can hit her.
as do, cait, luc, tris, ez, varus, vayne, ashe, jinx, kog, MF, quinn, twitch, draven. So literally just like any other ADC. So how is she paying for that power again?
Apollocliptic2 votesShe pays because she deals less damage over time, since the hop reduced her AS. Also because she only has two aggro skills, so 1v1 her damage output is lower (though she is probably harder to beat 1v1), in a teamfight, if she is hitting your tank for example, and you are poking there's, assuming both tanks are keeping each other from chasing, the other adc (or not Kalista) will melt the tank faster. But if you fail to secure the advantage and Kalista is last one standing, she is very likely going to clean up everyone who is left
PS. Ashe, Cait, Vayne and quin at least, all have ways to escape if you DO get close to them (ashe ulti, cait has a root and dash+slow, Vayne has a knock-back, quin has a mini-dash plus ultimate = Huge MS) Others like Draven on the other hand, is harder to kill even if you get within range, because his CC plus massive burst often kills whoever dives on him, similarly with Graves who often blows up assassins like LB so yeah, ADC's are different yo
Romans VI XXIII2 votesShe pays because she deals less damage over time
Kali has the highest "damage over time" of all the ADC with only 1 spell, E.
the hop reduced her AS.
The hop only reduces her AS when she gets to insane attack speed levels in the very late late game.
1v1 her damage output is lower
That depends entirely on: Who Kali is vs How well Kali is at jumping/dodging the opponents burst.
For example: If kali is vs a cait (who has just as little burst as kali) then kali will win every time, cause not only can she easily dodge Caits Q, but she can easily land her Q and rend Cait once she gets a good amount of stacks.
Then some one like vayne, who has no burst and relies on a drawn out right, or being able to position her self to land a stun. It is easy for kali to keep her self positioned to stand clear of the stun, and her drawn out fighting is on par with vaynes + she has her burst from Q, which may or may not be dodge able by vayne. Id say kali would win this fight as well.
Then champs like luc, who have lots of burst. If they are able to get a good combo down and burst kali well, then yes they will win, but if not then kali will end up winning the fight.
ADC's are different yo
yes i know ADCs are different, but the post I was questioning had nothing to do with differences in burst or even damage at all, as he stated
She is harder to hit than most ADC's, but she pays for that power. She melts away very quickly when you actually can hit her.
Which she is harder to hit, but stating she pays for the power by being able to be melted once actually hit applies to ALL ADCs, thus not pointing out what she is paying for with all that power, since the "hard to hit" part is in comparison to ALL ADCs, and their ability to not get hit.
Apollocliptic3 votesW is her passive amplifier which requires support input isn't it??? therefore it is very conditional, and if she's with a melee support (typical combo) then they often are not landing hits as often, plus it has a cool down.
Kalista is most dangerous late game with het nuts AS, before then her mobility can be handled by most other mobile champs, but once she maxes out, she can out manouvre even some dash and blinking champs. So the loss of damage in these scenarios still apply here as I explained
and the point with Kalista being melted once you do hit her, doesn't apply equally to the other adc's, as I said, once you get close, say with Leona or taric, you can burst her (with non 100-0 champs) quite easily, compared to other champs that can actually stay in the fight even if you corner them, like Graves and Draven won't immediately drop just because you "get into range"
If I use Maokai for example, I can close in on Kalista and rip her apart, but the time she escapes my CC, an ally will finish her off If I can't. (though she often kites to the point I can't even W, but it depends on situation) On the other hand, when I go on Vayne or Draven, they can turn it around on me, stopping me from landing my full combo, so when an ally arrives, he they often get bursted down anyway, or I've even died to a fed Vayne in like 2 seconds, kalista, no matter how fed has never shut down my maokai that fast, cause Vayne stacks damage faster and has self defence, Kalista ONLY has kiting, meaning if you bypass it, you can melt her EASIER than other adc's That was the point I was making and I believe the point the previous post was making too (just without the explanation)
A similar comparison can be made about other squishy champs
A non tanky lulu can slow and speed buff herself all day, same with nami and kinda with jannah but she got nerf'd. If you bypass these skills you can burst them pretty easy, right? Wrong, they have a variety of skills for emergancy use, mostly Ultimates, but also other CC that can keep them safe "just in case" and allies can come save them. Champs like Soraka and Zyra not so much, if she fails to root you, she is probably dead before her ulti even triggers.
Both types are squishy and can be bursted, but while one is generally about getting into range (like with Kalista) others require prerequisites like a stun or knock up or silence (like lulu and jannah) or chances are, going in on them is suicide, since you will take the wrath of the rest of their team. I have played lulu like a fizz, diving right into the enemy, avoiding all their attacks, supporting my assassins as much as my tanks and adc, but as soon as someone drops a silence on me I am dead lol, Can do it with jannah too, but with nami I typically stay back cause her spells are slower, but the point is, just because you're squishy, doesn't mean you're easy to kill, and Kalista is very easy to kill
other adc's off the top of my head, MF (though she does have that burst), Jynx, Twitch, hence they rely on their other mechanics, allies and positioning to appear OP, but if you know how to get to them, they die much faster than Vayne, Draven or even esreal and ashe (but ashe needs her ultimate)
Romans VI XXIII1 votesW is her passive amplifier which requires support input isn't it??? therefore it is very conditional, and if she's with a melee support (typical combo) then they often are not landing hits as often, plus it has a cool down.
Im sry I ment E, not W. WIth E she has more damage than any ADC or any other champ in the game. Hence she out smites junglers on drag and baron.
and the point with Kalista being melted once you do hit her, doesn't apply equally to the other adc's, as I said, once you get close, say with Leona or taric, you can burst her (with non 100-0 champs) quite easily, compared to other champs that can actually stay in the fight even if you corner them, like Graves and Draven won't immediately drop just because you "get into range"
yes but that is 2 ADCs out of ALLLLLLLLLLL of them. Lol. you see my point? you can't say she gets blown up when compered to other ADCs, cause other than those 2 just about every other one will get blown up just as fast as kalista, if not faster. And in your example if Leona catches a draven then he is easily 100-0 just as easily as kalist is if leona catches her, he has nothing other than a small CC to stop it, where as kali could possible jump out fast enough.
Apollocliptic1 votesThat would make E more of a burst skill than damage over time, but yeah, it varies depending on situation, because without Rend, (on cool down or saving it for priority target) Kalista deals less damage, or has to wait longer in the event that it doesn't secure the kill, but I see your point.
As for the other adc's fair enough, if I went through the whole list I'm sure I could find more, but it would be the minority, not the majority so your point still stands, however it's not just Draven's cc I'm talking about, but his ludicrous burst that he can unleash (just through his massive AD and a crit for example). The time it takes to recover from his little cc, most adc's would be dead, hence why it's more important to lock him down or distract him, while yeah, if you fail to capitalise on a leona stun on Kalista (assuming her ulti is on CD) Kalista can escape and stay away again. But Kalista is one of those ADC's that Leona can actually kill with her E, W, Q (not at full hp obviously) cause she takes so much hurt from that combo it's not hard to finish her, but I am being semantic. As I said, your point stands, I won't argue against that :)
PubgamerAU1 votesThe issue isn't sticking to her, as she can't spam her hop while running away. The issue is her sticking to you. How does one escape a Kalista, short of killing her(which you may not always be able to do)
Laughing Fish1 votesThat is kind of the point of her. She is a spirit of vengeance. You can't run from your past.
Romans VI XXIII1 votesas she can't spam her hop while running away
Sadly, this is what she is best known for, kiting (or running away) people around all day while she is constantly hitting them, as her jump is increased by 25% when jumping backwards. And also the fact that her jump forward is not as fast as some one with descent movement speed or gap closer running away, as she does need some one to hit to jump, and once you are out of the AA range then she can no longer catch you.
Apollocliptic1 votesSadly, this is what she is best known for, kiting (or running away) people around all day while she is constantly hitting them, as her jump is increased by 25% when jumping backwards. And also the fact that her jump forward is not as fast as some one with descent movement speed or gap closer running away, as she does need some one to hit to jump, and once you are out of the AA range then she can no longer catch you.
You're clearly right about running away, you're half right when she chases. If you leave her attack range you're fine, but "decent movement speed" won't do it, you need a dash. Champs like nami (and depending on scaling lulu) can grant nice MS buffs, but still won't escape a late game Kalista, or even mid game, (they can with well placed cc ofc, but just talking ms here) some normal champs will attack and chase faster than you can run, like Vayne, so Kalista is a champ that, short of a dash skill or flash, you will not outrun. Most cases, you must attack, wait for her to retreat, and turn that in your favour. She can't cancel or change direction, so when she hops back, you must retreat too, immediately leaving her AA range, though Q and rend can still turn that against you
Romans VI XXIII1 votesThat depends entire upon what "decent MS" means, as it is dependent on the person who is talking (its one of tho subjective terms lol).
sooooo I'm all right :D And so are you :)
Apollocliptic1 voteslol Well yeah, that's why I mentioned the MS buff from lulu and nami, but self casters like Xin or Garen will outrun her, so it's very subjective :P
PubgamerAU1 votesShe can't spam her hop while running away because she has to attack consistently to proc it(excluding the 1 time use from her Q), which puts her in range of other champion attacks.
If she tries to use her hop to escape anyone, she'll get slaughtered. She can use it once or twice to put some distance between her and her target(max auto attack range) but after that, if she keeps going back into auto attack range to proc her hop, she wont be running away.
However, you can't run away from her. Her passive allows her to stay on ANY target running away, unless they have some sort of low cd escape ability. If it's not on a low cd, she'll just smash her E button as soon as you use it, catch up, and stick on you anyway.
Romans VI XXIII1 votesJust FYI you are being hypocritical in your statements.
She can't spam her hop while running away because she has to attack consistently to proc it
So by this logic she cant chase either, cause she has to attack to proc it.
However, you can't run away from her. Her passive allows her to stay on ANY target running away
So why does it matter which direction your target is running? If they are running left/right/up/down they are moving at the same speed, so why can kali keep up with them when chasing, but cant when she is running? Especially when she jumps _backwards _25% further. And she can use E both when chasing or running slowing their movement speed. And if they are not in Kalistas AA range, then odds are you are not in their range either, thus making it irrelevant to jump with your AAs.
So Again, I will state this. Kali is better at kiting than chasing, due to multiple factors.
PubgamerAU1 votesChasing implies she WANTS and is ABLE to stay in auto attack range without dying. Running away implies she wants to be attacked the least amount of times as possible.
Her auto attack range is either shorter, or about the same as most other champions. That means, if she's running away, she can't spam her passive because if she does she puts herself further into harms way. Kind of counter-intuitive wouldn't you say?
Chasing someone however, means she wants to attack them as much as possible. This means she will deliberately stay within attack range, enabling her to proc her passive as fast as she can attack(which is usually pretty fast).
Her passive enables her to move more units on the screen than just running would otherwise allow, in the same way Riven spamming her Q does. You need a very high move speed to be able to outrun kalista's passive being procced constantly.
One last thing: The extra range when jumping backwards is almost negligible. It equates to something like an extra half width of a finger.
I would be happy to show you exactly what I mean in this post in a custom game on the OCE server.
M Schumacher1 votesban her in champ select
or pick something that can 100-0 her instantly
Apollocliptic1 votes[{quoted}](name=M Schumacher,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gE98fcVG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-04-21T14:08:39.743+0000)
ban her in champ select
or pick something that can 100-0 her instantly
LB, Kha, Rengar, and many other assassins, especially stealth assassins are good for this I assume Vayne post level 6 and Twitch can too, since even her ultimate has a time delay, you can often kill her if she tries to use it defensively
Romans VI XXIII1 votesHer passive is countered by slows as well, since the distance jumped is based off her current MS. So building items that slow, or selecting champs that have good inherent slows are good counters to her other than just point and click stuns/roots. Ex: Frozen Mallet or Lissandra (Best counter to Kalista).
The only problem I can see with TF vs Kali, is Kali can back out pretty fast as soon as she sees TF going for the yellow, specially since she can jump while using Q, and TF has a very short range.
PubgamerAU2 votesWrong. It scales with boot tiers, not movement speed.
Martial Poise's range scales with boot tiers, and is increased by 25% when dashing backwards (the amount of speed Kalista has does not affect the distance).
Romans VI XXIII1 voteswhere did you quote that from, you cant just quote something and expect every one to believe it with out proof of where it came from.
My sources tell me other wise Mobafire.com
Distance traveled scales with bonus movement speed
lolking.net
Martial Poise distance scales with Enhanced Movement
If I am wrong its due to my sources (that many league players all use) are not up to date.
Mathbalnase1 votes'Enhanced Movement' is the name of the Unique Passive found on Boots. (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Enhanced_movement#Enhanced_movement)
Try here, for PubgamerAU's quote: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Kalista
PubgamerAU1 votesHow about you read her passive in-game? Lmfao.
Source: I'm not a fucking idiot.
Extreme Troller1 votesthe counter to kalista passive is to report kalista for scripting, because everyone script to make good use of her passive.
Sincerly,
WolfChases1 votes
.But, Ashe vs Kalista is a risky laning phase. If Kalista takes an advantage you are most likely DOOMED, but if you play carefully and safe untill the point you can permaslow her, that everything goes in your favor. Not to mention that Ashe is a late game carry and you will potentially outscale Kalista easily.
qetzel1 votesIt depends who you are playing.
You obviously have targeted CC. Exhaust and other attack speed slows (Randuins/FH/Nasus) all shut her down 'harder' than other ADCs.
Then you have the less obvious methods. Use bushes to make her attacks miss (If they hit you know they have a ward there).
If you are on a tank or initiator, run at her, force her to kite backwards then turn round and attack her allies. She will take some time to get back, possibly enough for your team to burst someone down, putting the fight in your favour.
If you can force her to use Rend early - possibly by forcing her to use the slow - you severely lower her DPS. Remember - Kalista's damage is back loaded unlike, for example, Graves. You have to take her out of the fight early or she gets massive damage with Rend. On this note, burst is better against her than against other ADCs. Catching her out (using, for example, death bushes) is more effective against her than other ADCs.
Going back to Rend, 3 spears gives you 1 non-crit attack. It is really back-loaded damage.
If Kalista buys Runaan's the tanks can zone her away from the carries - this build is much weaker against single targets. The rest of your team should be able to beat the rest of your team.
Finally, much like Singed, don't chase the Kalista... It doesn't work.
I hope this helps.
Rebonack1 votesTargeted anything.
Other ADCs who out-damage her.
Vayne and Koggy don't give two shits whether or not Kalista is bouncing around like an idiot.
Reikken1 votes
also 
and pretty much any marksman as well
also her mobility is fairly weak when she isn't in 550 range of anything. all she has is one (delayed) dash. You can use that to your advantage as well.
