Can we admit it's a trash item and fix the issues?
Here's the problem Riot won't admit; on hit builds are ALWAYS going to be better on ranged champions than melee champions because of runaan's hurricane as well as the safety of being ranged.
That's why old rageblade doubled stacks for melees. But now on hits are shit for both melee and ranged champions
Irelia Bot31 votesAs well as Wit's end and BotRK
They are all kinda less then ideal currently compared to many other items.
Basically do some work to On-hit items.
CppL1 votes[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g1AwAP1b,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-10-01T06:35:07.123+0000)
As well as Wit's end and BotRK
They are all kinda less then ideal currently compared to many other items.
Basically do some work to On-hit items.
Wit"s is fine.Botrk could use some help.
Irelia Bot16 votesHardly bought is more like it. the only realistic frequent buyer is Warwick then kayle around 15% and then teemo around 10% and everyone else is sub 5%.
Timethief494 votesirelia saw some play with wits end surprised YOu didnt think about it ^^
morris13 votesGimmicky on TF jungle but good nonetheless.
AirKingNeo2 votesWit's End falls off really hard due to the low gold value of it's stats. I'd rather build Abyssal. And this is a Kayle perspective.
AirKingNeo1 votesI'll put my idea's here since we're on the topic of onhit itemization (might as well fix Gunblade while we're here too).
Builds from: 
Cost: 3400 Stats: 40 AD, 45AP, 25% AS. Passive: Basic attacks deal 15 onhit magic damage. Basic attacks grant 6% attack speed, 3 AD, and 3 AP for 5 seconds (Stacks up to 6 times) (Melee champions gain 2 stacks per hit). While you have 6 stacks, gain Guinsoo's Rage. Guinsoo's Rage: Phantom hit occurs every other hit.
Build path: the same Cost: 3000 gold. Stats: the same. Passive: Buffed to 7% on hit current health damage. Activate: Changed to deals 10% of the target's maximum health as physical damage and slows them by 40% for 2 seconds.
Builds from: 
Cost: 2700. Stats: 50% attack speed, 10% CDR, 42 MR. Passive: Deal 3% current health magic damage on hit and heal for the same amount.
Build: same Cost: down to 3200 because unreasonable nerfs. Stats: +5 AD. Passive: 15% omnivamp, 33% effectiveness for AoE abilities. Passive: deals 175 magic damage (+30% AP) and slows the target by 40% for 2 seconds. Basic attacks on champions, turrets, and epic monsters lower the cooldown of this item by 1 second. (40 Second Cooldown, Hextech thing.)
Basically I just fixed Rageblade's stats up a bit while making it a decent buy on melees. Fixed losing stats and still kept Phantom Hit because Riot wants that so I'm being realistic with this idea. BoRK gets it's active toned down so the rest of the item can have decent gold cost and passive damage. Might need like +5% AS buff. Wit's End was the real kicker. The idea of stealing MR is obsure for nearly all champions so I changed the item to steal health. Making it appealing for more champions like Jax, Aatrox, Shyvana, Fiora, Irelia. Numbers on Wit's End may need changing. Gunblade, I just fixed the active mostly. You know, give the reset back to the people. (Oh and I also gave Wit's End a stat with 42 again.)
IGotScuttleCrabs3 votes
YEEEES
RavenMagus2 votesI feel we should be trying to avoid the 2 stacks for melee hits on Guinsoo's Rageblade.
Maybe it does need something else for melee (or maybe not) - but as we saw in the past, getting double the stacks was fairly broken on some champs.
Edit: IMO, the main reason it sucks right now is that it's built for attack speed champs but has no innate attack speed on the item itself (even while building out of a recurve bow), so you actually lose a major stat after spending a whole chunk of gold. Fix that and it should be fine IMO - no need to revisit those broken double stacking days.
ProfDrDeath17 votesOnly one champion remaining to be sacrificed, before we can make Rageblade great again.
Would you please hand High Priest ~~Morello ~~ Meddler the ceremonial Nerf bat?
AirKingNeo2 votesWhy even nerf Kayle? She's not in a particularly good spot, she's even a tad bit on the bad side. With the meta favoring mages, she's out traded by all of them because she uses scaling CDR blues instead of MR blues and has no MR per level.
Oh and let me also say, Kayle deals no damage to tanks without Rageblade, which shows how depressing her passive is.
So I have to ask, why would be gutting an under performing champion? Like I can see nerfing her a bit if she's too strong after a patch when they fix onhit itemization.
SlashStriker11 votesif 
is not buying it there is a major issue
Dracocrash9 votesI can pull up some threads right now that literally begged for either guinsoo or devourer to be gutted, because together they were too strong.
Riots response : LETS REMOVE/GUT BOTH OF THEM IN THE SAME PATCH! LOL! CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.
OH AND LETS NERF ALL CHAMPIONS THAT WERE OP BECAUSE OF THE ITEM AND REVERT 1 TINY CHANGE TO PLEASE THE PLAYER BASE!
He4rtkiller5 votescough Kayle cough.. I'm sure there are more, perhaps Jax.
GULAG 4 U7 votesRage blade is crap on jax honeslty
It Hertz When IP3 votesWhich is annoying, because I'm pretty sure he used to be the poster boy for it, until it got changed.
GULAG 4 U3 votesYeah, because you need triforce on jax and with rageblade, during late, you get capped attackspeed from 2 items and only one gives on hits.
Tattersall4 votes……I buy Rageblade…
[zombie-nunu-bummed]
Fill To Win3 votesI seriously love rageblade on shyvana. No stats wasted and the full stack effect refreshes q for every other attack.
BLACK REALM GOD3 votesDO NOT F*** WITH MY WITS END AND RAGEBLADE. just because 99.9% of the community cant find a way to use it effectively doesnt mean everyone cant.
T_T im going to be so sad when my secret build on chogath doesnt work anymore
AirKingNeo1 votesNo one but Kayle buys Rageblade.
No one buys Wit's End. Kayle, YEAH KAYLE, honestly just should buy Abyssal or Maw.
Rakvir2 votesI can't speak for Ragenlade but Wit's End is a niche item. You can't even argue that it shouldn't exist in it's current state based solely on -that-, even, if you were to concede it does get built (if rarely) because then what's the point of support items? Those are the most blatantly, widely unquestioned niche items in the game.
Warwick, Nautilus, Kayle, Kogmaw, Udyr, are just a small handful that come to mind, depending how you build them in addition to conditionals such as if your team is front-loaded with AP.
Is it the best item ever and should you auto-include it every game? Gods no! But don't sit there and tell us that it is worthless on anything but a sub-optimal pick on Kayle and should be discredited altogether.
BLACK REALM GOD3 votes
it doesnt have to make sense
Rakvir1 votesI have no problems whatsoever with this. It looks fun. I have a similar build for Cho, though not with Black Cleaver. I believe Spirit Visage was in it, though I can't recall at this moment.
Mis-clicked reply and meant it for AirKingNeo, I take it?
BLACK REALM GOD2 votesno. it was meant for you. had i replied to airkingneo he probably would have just spewed hate my way. i just wanted to share it.
AirKingNeo1 votesWit's End isn't niche, it's obscurely useless and outclassed. Counter sustain damage mages? Abyssal and Maw counter the burst they have. Counter burst? Wit's End sucks at that. Lower MR? Abyssal does that and Maw gives mixed. Tank killing? Void Staff.
Support items at least can be useful in situations and not be outclassed, where as Wit's End is in all situations. Seige? Banner and Zzrot. Magic defense? Locket. Spam heal and shields to the point of absurdity (why did riot think this was a good idea)? Mikeals, Ardent, Grail.
Warwick would rather get Visage. Naut does not build Wit's End, Abyssal would be 10x better. Kayle, maybe, but again, why not build Abyssal or Maw? Kog, he's dead like Morde/Aatrox, doing him as an example right now is being obscure. Udyr? Zzrot and Visage.
Rakvir2 votesSpoken like a true "I'm going to always build the exact 6 items on X champion every game, no matter what the situation" person.
Also, Wit's End on Naut is something to consider, given it is an item to help hit his "sweet spot" of reaching the desirable attack speed for his W's empowered AA burn. Not every Naut has to be nothing but a CC bot that builds full tank.
Additionally, you're going so far as to say no one plays 3 champions at all (Kog/Aatrox/Morde). Pardon? I'm sorry but I must have missed the part where Riot said in the patch notes that they deleted these champs from the game. By all means, point it out to me because I must be blind.
If you think only a certain tier of play and higher is the only thing worth considering, then clearly you're insane. If the overwhelming vast majority of players are NOT within your perception "worth" allowing things to stick around for, then how exactly does an item which you don't use and no one is forcing you to buy, hurting anyone but those who DO find a use for it?
AirKingNeo1 votesSpoken like a true "I'm going to always build the exact 6 items on X champion every game, no matter what the situation" person.
Did I not just say Wit's End has NO SITUATION IN THE GAME where it is a better buy then any other item.
Then Naut builds Abyssal because it's a better item because it works with all of his abilities. Building Wit's End instead would just be trying to lose.
Morde, Galio, Aatrox, and now Kog (for now) are such terrible and irrelevent champions that they shouldn't be considered much when having to nerf, say Rylai's, for the sake of balancing the game.
Wit's End has no uses. It's an item that I can outclass with Phantom Dancer, in everything plus more. Only downside being 50 gold. A certain tier of play? Sir, the item isn't good. It was terribly gold ineffective before a cost reduction and a cost reduction didn't fix any of the problems with the item.
It has no use, that's why I want it changed. If I didn't care about onhit itemization, I wouldn't complain. People complain for change.
Truly not Gay3 votesHow is any champion terrible and irrelevant? Just because something isn't flavor of the month doesn't mean that it's terrible. I play Galio a lot and know that he isn't irrelevant. In fact, he is the only middle laner I play. He does a lot of AOE damage, hard counters nearly every AP middle laner, is practically unkillable unless outnumbered late game, has one of the strongest shields in the game (90 armor and magic resist on an ADC is kind of broken), and he has one of the biggest game changing ultimates there is with a 720 + 108% aoe damage 2 second taunt and 50% damage reduction.
I honestly think the only reason people don't like playing Galio is because he is a melee mage whose auto attacks become worthless after about 10 minutes. They don't want to deal with poke as a melee champion and simply don't know how to deal with it. This isn't a problem for me because I found an easy fix. HP/5 quints and I can stand there taking poke all day not caring.
Akali is SO HOT3 votesBotrk, Wit's End, and Rageblade buffs/changes would be nice
Zelnick2 votesIf Botrk did percent max health instead of current health I'd use it. If you're an adc who wants to shred tanks there's no reason to get it over some last whisper build path item unless your vayne and you want as much attack speed as you an get.
Requiemsfire4 votesYeah because last whisper items give attack speed, life steal, AD, and a single target slow activate. Let's face it if it was max health it's probably be broken in its current state.
R FLASH XD3 votesIf Botrk did percent max health instead of current health I'd use it. If you're an adc who wants to shred tanks there's no reason to get it over some last whisper build path item unless your vayne and you want as much attack speed as you an get.
and even vayne buys crit nowadays lol
Auz the Ripper5 votesThat's 'cause of all the buffs to her Q though
Teridax682 votesMy issues with Rageblade:
The AP. I know it's useful on some champions, namely Kayle and Teemo, but the item is clearly designed mainly for marksmen, and a Rioter even mentioned that the stat was mostly just there to pad out an item that would otherwise be potentially too good if it were cheaper. The item needs a new recipe, and should probably build off of Recurve Bow + Stinger, or some other combination that's AD/AP-agnostic.
The loss of double stacks for melee champions. As mentioned in the OP, melee champions have a hard time sticking close enough to enemies to consistently activate Guinsoo's Rage, and getting there faster should help them. Right now, though, we've also had a problem with several light fighters doing too well by abusing on-hit effects and going full tank, namely Master Yi and Yasuo, so we might need a more consistent solution for that first.
The passives. Guinsoo's Rage is decently fun, and the on-hit magic damage is functional enough, but the stacking stats aren't really as visible as they should be. If their power were moved either to the base on-hit effect to make it more interesting, or to Guinsoo's Rage to make it more of a distinct power surge, the item as a whole would feel a lot more coherent.
AirKingNeo4 votesIt's suppose to be a hybrid item.
Teridax681 votesSure, but my point is that making it a pure AS item would be better for hybrids than AD + AP, because the latter means that any champion picking it is going to end up with a stat they don't really want, including any "hybrid" champion like Jax or Kayle. Building hybrid still isn't really a good choice even on hybrid champions, since they tend to do a lot better with pure AD or AP builds, and I don't think putting both stats on an item really encourages building "hybrid" in a good way. It's also worth mentioning that marksmen are still the biggest potential users of this item, since they're the benchmark for any on-hit build, so even if Rageblade has its use on both AD and AP champions, it's still mostly oriented towards ADCs.
AirKingNeo1 votesAt that point make a new item.
= Some new item
Costs 3600
Stats: 70% attack speed, 30 on hit damage
Passive: Your attacks apply on hit effects an additional time every 3rd hit
GrReaper961 votesBut then you lose 4% attack speeck
AirKingNeo1 votesFine, 75%.
PermabannedGaren1 votesCan we admit it's a trash item and fix the issues?
Hey man, Kayle buys it. That means it's allllllllll riiiiiiiiiight.
Sohleks2 votesPls nerf Kayle ;~;
AirKingNeo1 votesWhy would we nerf Kayle? Like seriously, what is your line of thought here? I'll even argue this out but I'm really curious why people want to nerf a slightly under performing champion.
Sohleks2 votesShe's been the #1 win rate performing top laner for a while now. Granted, if fervor of battle wasn't so potentially powerful Kayle would sink some though.
With a heavy attack speed rune page's pushing power she just forces non interaction with almost all melee and ranged alike staying out of reach of melee and sustaining poke. There's no way you're tanking up that kinda sustained dmg either it's too much and too mixed. It's the most frusterating top lane to lane against IMO. She scales fiercly too which is important.
I've tried her myself and the carry and cheese potential is absurd. In that experience I noticed her Q sucks though considering the mana cost (it costs more mana than dmg it does LOL); it's just good for pushing the kill/heavy trade but that's fine because that just allows her to abuse her W sustain more. If she just heals herself and presses E to scale it's just the most disgusting playstyle top lane while having constant lane pressure.
55976771DEL21 votes and need to be fixed.
Vallalan1 voteswit's end is fine. its honestly a niche item. its a viable item if you want an attack speed item that gives mr for cheap. its never going to be built on adcs in place of a zeal item either so its fine.
bork could use some buffs. its pretty trash right now.
and rageblade is an item that I think costs too much. I thought the phantom hit would justify its absurd cost, but it doesnt. if they lower the cost of rageblade just a tiny bit it will be more of a viable option for those who build some on hit or value the hybrid side of it like Kayle or Jax. Kayle already builds it, but Jax kind of abandoned it.
Meep Man1 votesI think Guinsoo's needs to be made into either AP or AD. Or have that split into two separate items for each... like...
Guinsoo's Rageblade +45 Attack Damage +30% Attack Speed UNIQUE Passive- Rageblade: Basic attacks grant +3 Attack Damage and +4% Attack Speed for 5 seconds, stacking up to 6 times. At 6 stacks, this item grants Guinsoo's Rage. Guinsoo's Rage: Every other basic attack will trigger on-hit effects an additional time. (Only one Rageblade can be purchased)
Cactopus' Rageblade +60 Ability Power +30% Attack Speed UNIQUE Passive- Rageblade: Basic attacks grant +4 Ability Power and +4% Attack Speed for 5 seconds, stacking up to 6 times. At 6 stacks, this item grants Cactopus' Rage. Cactopus' Rage: Every other basic attack will trigger on-hit effects an additional time. (Only one Rageblade can be purchased)
Then each would have their costs adjusted to fit. This way, half the stats provided aren't wasted on 75% of the champions that purchase it.
ABSINTHEged6 votesThat's kind of the opposite of it's whole identity. It's meant to be a niche item for champions like teemo.
The real issue is that champions like teemo can't actually afford to put it into their builds.
Meep Man1 votesAh, I see. "Why can't they afford to put it into their build?", is probably the question that needs to be asked then. Is it the gold cost or are the stats provided too weak?
ABSINTHEged2 votesWell, it's probably efficient for it's gold value. It's very slot efficient too.
The problem is it's just so damned expensive that it's hard to rush early unless you're very, very ahead. Completed items are just too powerful compared to component items. Teemo benefits sooo much more from getting wits end at 14-15 minutes than rageblade at 20-22. For the cost of rageblade you can have an entire completed item and half the component items for a second.
Really expensive, really slot efficient items tend to be better buys late game, but most things that would build rageblade for it's passive proc are early game champs.
