were 3 of the 6 mages reworked last year. Yes that's right they were made to be played as MAGES, mostly played mid or maybe top, not toxic supports... I just find it funny how they reworked the traditional immobile mage class into being more efficient bot lane then mid. Quality reworks...
Deep Terror Nami87 votesBrand and Zyra were frequent bot laners long before this (Zyra was meta support).
Reworks Are OP10 votesI know this but not to the state it is now... brand was played mid much more then support.
SnugglePuggle9410 votesZyra is a mid laner who goes bot lane, she's not a "meta support."
Edit: Such downvotes. How rude.
TheHappyReaperz52 votesZyra hasn't been a Meta mid pick in years.
SnugglePuggle948 votesBecause people found out how good she was bot lane, duh. Then Riot started to cater to that side instead of balancing her for what she originally was, just like they fucking did with Morg and Karma.
TheHappyReaperz17 votesExcept Morg and Karma both have abilities suited to supporting. They were designed, in part, with that role in mind.
SnugglePuggle9418 votesAh no. Morg was designed as a mid lane mage, but people found her shield worked for a support. Karma was designed as a battle mage with no real niche but suited for a solo lane, then they fucking turned her into a pretty useless shield bot support.
IcyPepper2 votesThe only thing non-supportive about Morgana is her W and passive.
LankPants18 votesMorg was designed in a time before Riot had any idea how players would even populate the map. The idea of a dedicated support didn't really exist at the time, the game was so early in its developmental stages that no one had any idea where they should play anyone.
She was designed with a mage with supportive aspects, but the idea of mid lane mage didn't solidify in the community until the tail end of season one. Up until then it was fairly common to take ADCs like Ashe mid rather than mages.
Anidan7 votesBack then people played the game more akin to DotA where you took someone who got a huge level 6 powerspike to mid so they could hit level 6 ASAP. Ashe was a champion that got a large level 6 powerspike thanks to her ult, and she also enjoyed the faster levels because it meant she could roam around the map and try to set up kills with Frost Arrows, similar to when Drow Ranger went mid. There was a precedent set for that kind of thing, but mages all had larger powerspikes at level 6 so they became the dominant role, and eventually it was populated by people that had power-spikes and could roam and gank with said powerspike.
Morgana was definitely created back in that time. She has a DotA-esque kit: she has an intended goal (lockdown) and an ability to helps to solidify that role (Tormented Soil), along with a way to help support an ally, since she's a mage, and in DotA mages either need some form of scaling to continue to be relevant for damage (Zeus, Skywrath Mage if going carry, Outworld Devourer), role-transition capabilities (Lina and Queen of Pain can both transition from burst mages to viable right-clickers in the late-game) or have some form of utility to maintain usefulness past when their damage is no longer scary (Puck CC, Pugna allied Ethereal form to save them from right-clicks, and the myriad supports).
Skins Project10 votesWhile we're at it why don't we shit about how blitz is played bot when he was made as a top laner HMM?
It Hertz When IP2 votesI have yet to meet a single person who looked at Blitz's kit and said "Yup, definitely a top laner first and foremost". I think Riot just mislabeled him on release.
Skins Project1 votesxD
I know just kind of point out the error in the argument here.
Idk tho, blit was intended to be a tank, despite the flat ap you see these days on him.
If you think about it it would be ok, a flat utility tank, (I think 
was the og 
prock for him.)
Was just a very very heavy utility based top lane idea... Idk.
It Hertz When IP2 votesIn Riot's defense, he was labeled back before Riot realized that releasing any durable champ with high utility pretty much auto-relegated them to bot lane.
Auz the Ripper4 votesOn the othe hand, His W and E do scream "build AD"
Nik Nikerson1 votesOh no, Riot balanced a champion for the role they are actually seeing play...
As long as a champion doesn't present a highly unhealthy play pattern in another role, why wouldn't they balance a champion around the role people are actually using them?
SnugglePuggle942 votesBecause that's not their real role, and it ruins the role they were originally made for, and upsets theirs fans. They should be balanced for what they are intended for not for what one side of their fan base likes.
Nik Nikerson3 votesI guess Vi should exclusively be a top laner then?
Also, a small percentage of players being upset by a decision isn't a reason not to do something. Every change will upset someone, and its completely unavoidable.
R182 votesUm, she's one of the best meta supports. Not sure where you have been
SnugglePuggle941 votesTo me and to a lot of other people she's a mid laner who goes bot. Not a meta support like Sona and Janna.
R184 votesMETA isn't the right word for it. The word you need to use is traditional.
LankPants14 votesThe problem is that a lot of people don't want Zyra to be just a support and that's all Riot has ever balanced her around. They don't seem to care about Zyra mid, every time Zyra support's too strong rather than asking how they could nerf her while either buffing or leaving Zyra mid at the same level they just trash Zyra mid a little more.
This is why there were so many people telling Riot to balance Zyra around mid and just forget about Zyra support for a while in the MYMU thread. Support Zyra will probably always be at least playable, so the focus should be on mid Zyra and making that a viable build without breaking support Zyra.
Troll for Trump4 votesIt's like the opposite of sona mid and lulu top/mid
NineTailedMystic2 votesThank god, too. Zyra mid is incredibly oppressive.
LankPants6 votesNot really, Zyra mid is pretty much standard mage shit, a bit of AOE, a snare that she can punish you after if you get hit. That's the basics of how most mages play. What's oppressive is when you add another person and the punishment for missing her E becomes death or summoners almost all the time.
I'd say Zyra mid is overall less oppressive than your main, who has a more punishing E with better followup that's easier to land due to her R.
NineTailedMystic2 votesWhat's oppressive are her mini gatling guns. Her QER themselves are fine, but her plants do insane damage with 0 effort involved on top of her QER doing great damage as well. She doesn't even have to hit her seeds with Q, as it has leniency on sprouting them.
Played against one recently, like a few days ago, went to trade with her and her Q did 25%, nbd that's fine, but then her little shits did 25% more while we disengaged.
Zyra just isn't well designed imo, and I heard she was a terror on release.
Ahri isn't really oppressive unless she gets ahead.
LankPants4 votesShe doesn't even have to hit her seeds with Q, as it has leniency on sprouting them.
I agree this is dumb. Her Q's big enough to hit enough seeds already, it doesn't need to be bigger.
Played against one recently, like a few days ago, went to trade with her and her Q did 25%, nbd that's fine, but then her little shits did 25% more while we disengaged.
If you were bot she'd have dealt 20% with her Q, 20% with her plants and her ADC would have dealt extra while you tried to disengage. Even an ADC who's not got the best follow up like Ashe can hit you for an extra 20% quite easy, someone like Jhin with good followup can probably just kill you.
If you get hit by an E bot as well she's going to hit you just as hard with plants and her ADC can follow up better, realistically you probably burn heal or die.
Zyra just isn't well designed imo, and I heard she was a terror on release.
IMO her worst problem is the RNG, if she roots you right before her passive comes up she has a chance to drop two seeds on top of you, a chance to drop one seed and a chance for the seed to go somewhere dumb. When the first or third case happens it feels shit for one player because they're getting fucked by RNG, the Zyra went on her passive CD to try and get an extra seed on you and RNGesus said no or the Zyra randomly dropped 2 seeds on you and had 4 plants to kill you with. Both of these feel like shitty outcomes.
I don't really have a huge issue with her kit as a whole though. A DPS punish for a CC isn't a bad idea. It can be executed on well.
Ahri isn't really oppressive unless she gets ahead.
This is kind of Zyra's other issue. Whether she's ahead or behind barely matters. A Zyra who's ahead will deal a little more damage but a Zyra who's behind still has way too much damage in her kit. This is something I'd also like to see changed. Her plant base damage/level is just too high and the ratio is nonexistant. I think if you changed this you'd see Zyra feel much fairer because if she started to fall behind her damage actually would fall off.
NineTailedMystic1 votesThis is kind of Zyra's other issue. Whether she's ahead or behind barely matters. A Zyra who's ahead will deal a little more damage but a Zyra who's behind still has way too much damage in her kit. This is something I'd also like to see changed. Her plant base damage/level is just too high and the ratio is nonexistant. I think if you changed this you'd see Zyra feel much fairer because if she started to fall behind her damage actually would fall off.
This is most Mages really. Brand, Veigar, Lux, etc can all dump on a squishy as long as their not outrageously behind. Just an unfortunate circumstance of non-scaling MR on most champs and their high bases.
LankPants2 votesNot really, other mages tend to be fairly reliant on their AP ratios. A Veigar, Lux, Syndra ect who's behind tends to have fairly pathetic damage and fall back mostly on their utility. Zyra falls back on her utility and still deals significantly more damage than any of them.
Looknook2 votesSome mages with high bases and CC can be useful when behind. I would no put Veigar and Lux into those Categories though and especially not Veigar. He has had scaling but not great bases. If he gets behind there is a significant difference. The same goes for a lot of Midlaners actually. The ones who do have good bases as well are typically the ones you see botlane. All the other have to get levels and money from a solo lane.
ThorHammerz13 votesGet ready, because 
and 
are all coming to tear ADC's a new hole!
Coming soon to a bot lane near you!
ModCaptainMårvelous1 votestfw Karthus/Swain have migrated to top lane. (Swain more obviously but Karth sometimes goes top iirc)
ThorHammerz1 votesKarthus also jungles... ganking bot lane from the fountain since 2009 :D
ModCaptainMårvelous1 votesGotta be honest: I'd -love- for them to push Karthus into the jungle because of how neat his playstyle is.
NineTailedMystic2 votesThey'd never do that. It'd be like old Warwick. Farm til 6, gank with no interaction about it.
Sraeg20132 votesI did play Syndra/Orianna bot lane once.
The "meta" bot lane had no chance.
Pimasterchampion1 votes
*steals farm with q and ult
ChaddyFantome8 votesto be fair, all 3 of them have been played support before in the past.
PaffWasTaken1 votesBefore, dmg supports were troll picks to have fun. Now? They are almost necessary in the meta...
ChaddyFantome2 votesBefore, dmg supports were troll picks to have fun. Now? They are almost necessary in the meta...
....You know, if we ignore the resurgence and prevalence of enchanter, ofc.
Edge of Daybreak6 votesYeah but when we nerf them out of their lanes what you guys want riot to do? We can't dumpster them for bot and then expect them to go back mid it makes no sense.
Jerry SeinfeId6 votesAnd why can't they be support?
used to jungle or top -> migrated to support i think somewhere in s5.
was considered one of the better supports for a while while being a burst mage
while a stable support pick for a long time she's a mage, and she bursts adc's like it's nothing.
Buy 
and you do as much dmg as your midlaner.
he's just as capable of being a mid laner as he is at being support.
Used to be a meme then became viable as support.
see nautilus.
Even 
is being used as a support.
is nothing new, as far as i remember she's always been played in both lanes.
i've seen once a while back when a friend of mine wanted to try it out. I can see it working with his lockdown. and it's just as toxic as midlane malz.
he's got a stun, his ult is strongest when facing two players. him moving bot either as support or replacing the adc was only a matter of time. as he's atleast got some cc and can get by with the gold of the support role means replacing the support.
I seriously don't know why Support mains are so overprotective about their damn role. Only the champs you guys like can be support? Hell i expect all of you to cry if sejuani became a meta support suddenly. Anyone who can fulfill the role should be allowed to play it. Noone should cry they can't play support, 70% of midlaners/toplaners can play support and some junglers can too.
As a matter of fact i want to see riot support supports leaving the botlane. I love playing jungle/top leona and would love to see it become a more viable options compared to support.
Then again i main Jinx, Singed and leona so idk why you guys are crazy about maining one role.
Sexy Jack Rabbit6 votesIt's not usually the sup mains who complain about it, it's moreso other roles. Janna, Soraka, Nami, Karma, Sona etc. None of them struggle against poke ap lanes.
Tanks sups suffer, but tbh there is not really much capable in regards to bringing back Tank sups when poke is just so much better.
As far as I know, people aren't being protective.
It's a lot more related to Riot being generally bias by forcing 
into the bot lane, and then having them immediately over-shadowed by and 
it's a case of certain champions being FORCED To support, and others being allowed to leisure from lane to lane without as much as a love tap.
Jerry SeinfeId1 votesi think lowering the base damage and upping the ap ratio's would allow those 3 to swap lanes more easily
I have always played lulu as a midlaner. it's been a while tho. Sona does alot of damage and it's reliable poke. so it's pretty effective against an adc. Nami also has pretty strong base damage early on (imo) and her heal works better when there's more people around.
still they deserve to be able to change lane.
as for tanks suffering i can kinda understand that. i still find myself doing fine as leona tho.
Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votesWell the issue is that all 3 of these champions used to Mid-lane (And in Lulu's case, also Top lane). But Riot decided they did not want that one bit, and nerfed them SPECIFICALLY so that they were to go bot lane.
Lulu lost her Waveclear tool, and is just plain and simple no good as a solo laner.
Sona had her Passive base nerfed a long time ago to shift more power into her Aura's. Poke and damage is useful anywhere.
Nami lost her only some-what decent scaling on her W due to her mid-lane trading.
It's not a case of they CAN'T swap Lane, it's that Riot does not want them to mid-lane, and as a result breaks their legs/fins and gimps their kits in order for that to happen.
Other champs that fit into this include 
and even 
All forced from the Jungle and Top, into bot lane roles, where in honestly they see less gold and less stellar performances.
TheHappyReaperz5 votesYou seem to forget Fiddlesticks.
Ralanr5 votesZyra was a support for a long time.
h5LYF41Lam4 votesZyra and Brand always went bot,malz just joined the aids squad.
GrReaper963 votesTo be fair at first was just OP then they nerfed him to become a support
Supreme Senpai691 votesMalzahar support works because of the meta not necessarily the rework. Brand and Zyra always went support.
The only thing the reworks did was kill jungle Malz and jungle Zyra :l