Assassins and Safe Laning Phases

OyddAWqJ5r·Sep 4, 2015·67 votes·4,880 views

Should never coexist

138 Comments

IcyPepperSep 4, 201519 votes

I find that some ranged mages can make it a little harder on him with some autoattacks, though.

What I find about Zed is that his laning phase is pretty safe, but he starts to fall off late-game because he can't dive past the frontline all too well. Maybe that's just me, maybe I'm wrong, but he seems to fall off a little late-game in that regard (probably why he has that W passive in the first place!).

Other assassins have shittier early games, while having godly late-games. For instance, everyone knows the joke that Akali can go 0/4 for the first five minutes but once she hits level 6 she's suddenly 5/4

Earl EulrichSep 4, 201516 votes

it´s more like Lee Sin...he doesn´t fall off as much, it´s just a lot harder to make him work in 5v5s than in 1on1s or Brawls. The really great Zed-players will still find their targets later on in the game. And Akali is a really bad example, as she just does nthing if she doesn´t get fed.

IcyPepperSep 4, 20155 votes

At least he has damage, instead of utility like Lee. Yeesh...

And I'm not going to complain about great Zed players finding their targets, I mean that's what assassins do. They pick out targets. I ain't mad if he got the better of us.

I got nothing against his late-game. His split-pushing is countered by a guard, and his teamfighting is countered by a proper frontline and support (not necessarily the support, but rather support from the team).

GigahappytownSep 4, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I find that some ranged mages can make it a little harder on him with some autoattacks, though.

What I find about Zed is that his laning phase is pretty safe, but he starts to fall off late-game because he can't dive past the frontline all too well. Maybe that's just me, maybe I'm wrong, but he seems to fall off a little late-game in that regard (probably why he has that W passive in the first place!).

Other assassins have shittier early games, while having godly late-games. For instance, everyone knows the joke that Akali can go 0/4 for the first five minutes but once she hits level 6 she's suddenly 5/4

akali is eh shes too easy to counter relies on enemys being bad worst assasin right now not because shes bad because everyoen else is just better she lacks any defensive capabilitys and is just pure damage not garunteed to kill her target either

talon is a better pick that akali

Akali is SO HOTSep 4, 20152 votes

nah bro her shroud is the ultimate defense mechanism and can't be countered and she is op as shit because of it. If only item 3364 I could do something item 3362 about it and stop her from being invincible with no counterplay item 2043 who can 1v5 teams ezpz after 1 kill.

:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^)

Stiv1234Sep 4, 201513 votes

Ahri Leblanc

FistOfSharkieshaSep 4, 201512 votes

Ahri is worse imo. If her ultimate isn't up she has a monstrous speed boost always on hand and mid lane is so short that if her outer turret is up she's basically immortal.

MordepoolSep 4, 20153 votes

Not really to many assasins can towerdive her with no risk. From a mage vs mage your point has merit but assassin ahri is dead (so glad for that assassin ahri sucked)

Edit: people dive when champs are at low health and abilities are on cooldown. Zed fizz Lee sin. All mobile no risk tower divers

FistOfSharkieshaSep 4, 20158 votes

No risk? She has a charm, MS boost, and potentially 3 dashes. Tower diving an Ahri is asking to be destroyed by a turret.

DrNovaSep 4, 20152 votes

If you towerdive her while she has them all available you are an idiot and deserved to die.

SpecterVonBarenSep 5, 20152 votes

If she doesn't have any of them available then why would she stay under turret at low health against an assassin?

MiraweaveSep 4, 20157 votes

Eh, the safety would be ok if he didn't have such strong harass.

Indominus BladeSep 4, 201515 votes

Strong harass vs bad players, medicore to no harass vs good players.

AlphadefSep 4, 20159 votes

So no champion has any harass? It's not like the shuiken is a slow projectile, so if it doesn't count as any harass at all vs a good player, what does?

Indominus BladeSep 4, 20154 votes

Razor Shuriken is easy to sidestep, if you can't, you can still hide behind minions to reduce the damage significantly. If a Zed is constantly landing clean first hit Razor Shurikens on you, then you are not a good player. A good player sidesteps or takes cover behind minions if he can't sidestep. Zed harass is medicore. Good harass comes from champions like Varus Xerath Azir etc.

AlphadefSep 4, 20153 votes

Fair enough, yet I consider varus and xerath easier to dodge, but I'm bronze.

Hayaishi2Sep 4, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Indominus Blade,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fxx4lKEy,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-04T14:13:21.176+0000)

Razor Shuriken is easy to sidestep, if you can't, you can still hide behind minions to reduce the damage significantly. If a Zed is constantly landing clean first hit Razor Shurikens on you, then you are not a good player. A good player sidesteps or takes cover behind minions if he can't sidestep. Zed harass is medicore. Good harass comes from champions like etc.

Varus' arrow is 10 times easier to dodge than Zed's shuriken.

Anyways, Zed with his current laning phase can't have reliable Assassination patterns like everybody else does, so Zed mains gtfo with your QQ about zhonyas or that his late game isn't good enough.

Indominus BladeSep 4, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Varus' arrow is 10 times easier to dodge than Zed's shuriken.

Anyways, Zed with his current laning phase can't have reliable Assassination patterns like everybody else does, so Zed mains gtfo with your QQ about zhonyas or that his late game isn't good enough.

Varus arrow is not easier to dodge. Varus arrow does more damage, has a lot more range and can be spammed with cdr much more effectively. Get to lvl 30 before trying to argue that Zed has better harass than a Varus, especially when speaking to a superior diamond elo player, kthxbye.

Hayaishi2Sep 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Indominus Blade,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fxx4lKEy,comment-id=000000000000000000020000,timestamp=2015-09-04T20:59:44.185+0000)

Varus arrow is not easier to dodge. Varus arrow does more damage and can be spammed with cdr. Get to lvl 30 before trying to argue with superior diamond elo players, kthxbye.

I'm diamond as well, this is just the account i have to use to post here. Get your head out of your ass.

Varus' arrow is like the most telegraphed ability in the game, the only way they are hard to dodge is if you use them from the fog of war, if he is in your vision and you get hit by those constantly you're doing something wrong, specially in laning phase where he can't afford to spam them.

Indominus BladeSep 4, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I'm diamond as well, this is just the account i have to use to post here. Get your head out of your ass.

Stopped reading there. Diamond player who claims Zed harass is stronger than Varus harass, ayy lmao. I play them both, go away troll. When you have a EUW account speak to me, you can play Zed, I'll play Varus, lets see who wins :)

Akali is SO HOTSep 4, 20155 votes

Varus' arrow is 10 times easier to dodge than Zed's shuriken.

Stopped reading right there

Indominus BladeSep 4, 20157 votes

Kassadin vs Zed , loses, better QQ on forum :) Ironic that you also played a "safe assassin".

360D3GR3SSSep 4, 20156 votes

The point of an assassin is to get in and get out.

OyddAWqJ5rSep 4, 201537 votes

Never gets in, farms from a looong distance with Q and gets out whenever anyone gets near him. Sounds more like a sniper to me.

Talkin bout laning btw.

...Talkin bout pre-6 laning btw.

Soda PopkillskiSep 4, 201516 votes

If the Zed never goes in then he sucks. He needs those earlygame kills to snowball his shitty lategame.

A Miss FortuneSep 4, 20157 votes

I don't think Zed's late game is that bad when he can kill pretty much any carry by just pressing R and auto attacking them once or twice. He clearly isn't the best late game, but I wouldn't say his late game is necessarily bad.

Soda PopkillskiSep 4, 20159 votes

That only works if he's REALLY REALLY fed. A non-fed Zed can only assassinate half health targets that have seperated from their team. While a fed Zed can actually assassinate in teamfights, as long as they're good enough.

Hayaishi2Sep 4, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Soda Popkillski,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fxx4lKEy,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-04T19:00:37.248+0000)

That only works if he's REALLY REALLY fed. A non-fed Zed can only assassinate half health targets that have seperated from their team. While a fed Zed can actually assassinate in teamfights, as long as they're good enough.

Zed late game can kill without his ultimate and mid game he can kill you with his Death Mark if he hits ABSOLUTELY everything.

Akali is SO HOTSep 4, 20154 votes

If you're bad he can otherwise he aint killing shit if you remove his ult lol

Elo ThiefSep 4, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Zed late game can kill without his ultimate and mid game he can kill you with his Death Mark if he hits ABSOLUTELY everything.

So you're complaining that Zed can kill you by using and landing every single skill and spell at his disposal? Yeah that isn't biased at all.

Zed will NOT kill any ADC late game without his ult if they have even one defense item. Maybe in a 1v1 if they fuck up, but who the hell is not by their team as an ADC late game? You have no idea what you're talking about.

Also, Varus arrow is not telegraphed. There is no indication of where he is going to shoot it, similar to thresh's q.

Hayaishi2Sep 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Elo Thief,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fxx4lKEy,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-09-04T21:06:45.611+0000)

So you're complaining that Zed can kill you by using and landing every single skill and spell at his disposal? Yeah that isn't biased at all.

Zed will NOT kill any ADC late game without his ult if they have even one defense item. Maybe in a 1v1 if they fuck up, but who the hell is not by their team as an ADC late game? You have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm not complaining, i simply stated a fact, and you agreed with me yet i have no idea what i'm talking about, lmao get out.

Elo ThiefSep 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm not complaining, i simply stated a fact, and you agreed with me yet i have no idea what i'm talking about, lmao get out.

Literally everything you say is wrong about Varus AND Zed. No Diamond player says that Varus Q is telegraphed, it makes no sense, in fact, it is the OPPOSITE of telegraphed. You don't know where he is going to shoot it because it has no indication, similar to Thresh q. You wouldn't be scared to post here on your main if it was Diamond either, so there's that.

Hayaishi2Sep 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Elo Thief,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fxx4lKEy,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-09-04T21:10:54.061+0000)

Literally everything you say is wrong about Varus AND Zed. No Diamond player says that Varus Q is telegraphed, it makes no sense, in fact, it is the OPPOSITE of telegraphed. You don't know where he is going to shoot it because it has no indication, similar to Thresh q.

How is the super obvious charging animation NOT telegraphed? You have to know he's gonna use it when you see that Kamehameha animation.

Elo ThiefSep 4, 20153 votes

{quoted}

How is the super obvious charging animation NOT telegraphed? You have to know he's gonna use it when you see that Kamehameha animation.

You know he's using it, but you don't know where. That's what a telegraphed ability means. It's hitbox is also much larger and goes at basically the same speed as Zed q. It's range is also MUCH further, allowing you to zone someone off to miles away from CS.

Not to mention if you get hit by a shuriken it isn't the end of the world, but getting hit with a Varus Q? You can say goodbye to a chunk of HP, at least Zed has to use his full combo or be far ahead for his ONE Q to do meaningful damage. He just sits back and pokes with large hitbox, long range and massive damaging arrows.

Akali is SO HOTSep 4, 20159 votes

You're silver 2 with no Zed games at all. You have no right to assume anything about Zed tbh. Go play 10 games with him and then come back and tell me about his late game.

A Miss FortuneSep 4, 201513 votes

Darn, guess my elo prevents me from having any understanding of the game at all. Guess every time I heard a Diamond player say "ogm teemo soo op" they were clearly right solely due to their rank.

Binxy PrimeSep 4, 20159 votes

There was a point where Teemo was pick or ban in solo queue, and he still has moments of strength, although I would guess most of the times that has been said it's hyperbole.

But seriously go play 10 games as Zed.

it will let you see how absolutely not broken he is
he might be the most fun champion in the game.

A Miss FortuneSep 4, 201510 votes

I've never said he was broken, in fact I consider Zed balanced.

And I never said he was unfun? How do you know I haven't played with Zed at all?

SolusInCadereSep 5, 20151 votes

yea scrub, get out of hear with your well expressed ideas, even though your elo represents the vast majority of League players, I don't see any LC$BIGPLay$ coming out of you, so get lost!

A Miss FortuneSep 5, 20153 votes

Hey, how dare you! I will have you know that one time I bought a ward!

Elo ThiefSep 4, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fxx4lKEy,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-09-04T10:08:41.406+0000)

Never gets in, farms from a looong distance with Q and gets out whenever anyone gets near him. Sounds more like a sniper to me.

Talkin bout laning btw.

If Zed is last hitting every single minion with q then you must be doing absolutely nothing to pressure him.

Don't get me wrong, he's a pretty safe champion, but Zed is able to be poked down, and he won't be throwing that many Q's if you push him to tower considering he will have to use all of his energy last hitting under it IF you are actually pressuring him and not just letting him farm for free.

Also, are you really in a place to talk about safe champions when your most played consist of Hecarim and Vlad? If we're gonna act like Zed is brainless, I can easily say that all you do is mash q and e whenever they are off CD to harass your opponent because there is no reason not to. All while healing yourself! So fun!

OyddAWqJ5rSep 5, 20154 votes

If Zed is last hitting every single minion with q then you must be doing absolutely nothing to pressure him.

The game consists of skillshots and short ranged targeted spells. The skillshots have less reliability at a range. In order to put "pressure" on him you must overextend into that range aka into gank range aka into "I-can't-walk-back-to-my-tower-if-he-jumps-on-me-and-I'm-squishy" range.

Don't get me wrong, he's a pretty safe champion, but Zed is able to be poked down, and he won't be throwing that many Q's if you push him to tower considering he will have to use all of his energy last hitting under it IF you are actually pressuring him and not just letting him farm for free.

So the counter is to overextend? Sounds like a bad plan to me. If only wards grew on trees. And you act as if he is void of basic attacking to last hit minions and the tower is AoE nuking all the minions from him. No, it's not. He can actually last hit under tower FAR BETTER than any other champion given his passive. On top of that he has Q and E to catch those minions that almost get tower rekked.

Any Zed player with a brain won't be QWE'ing the minion wave if it gets to their tower. And any jungler with a brain will destroy you if your squishy mage butt crosses into over-extension territory.

Also, are you really in a place to talk about safe champions when your most played consist of Hecarim and Vlad? If we're gonna act like Zed is brainless, I can easily say that all you do is mash q and e whenever they are off CD to harass your opponent because there is no reason not to. All while healing yourself! So fun!

Personal attacks, always gotta have these. Hecarim is safe? I don't need to argue it. Vlad though? His heal is minuscule pre-hex which is where most of laning happens. All during this time he is extremely vulnerable to a great number of the cast. He is a counterpick to some so it doesn't apply as much but for the most part there is plenty of non-safety to this champion.

Also I never said he was brainless.

Any other pretentious comments about who I am or what's on my profile that invalidates my statements?

ThryaleSep 5, 20155 votes

oh, and let's not forget his unavoidable harass. Sure, if yer light on yer feet, you can dodge his really fast shurikens, but there is no possible way to dodge his WE combo. If yer in range of his W, yer taking damage.

"Oh! but Thryale! that means he burned his escape!" okay, so? what do you expect my half hp butt to do about it? Oh, and let's not forget, I'm most likely an immobile midlane mage with unreliable cc and trading with him causes me to run out of mana. (heaven forbid I'm melee and have an all or nothing trade pattern)

Zed is great at melee range, as most melee assassins should be, but he is too oppressive at range, and it makes trading with him a nightmare. Once he get's life steal, you basically lost your lane unless your jungler is camping. (successfully might i add. none of that run in lane to scare him off/straight up dying bull crap)

OyddAWqJ5rSep 6, 20152 votes

I want to say something about how Shurikens aren't dodgeable but rather missable and the way to "dodge" them is to be unpredictable in your movement and hope he doesn't guess right.

But I feel it might be biased to say so. I'm not exactly playing on 30 ping either so idk if I can judge.

Noble FoxSep 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fxx4lKEy,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-09-04T10:08:41.406+0000)

Never gets in, farms from a looong distance with Q and gets out whenever anyone gets near him. Sounds more like a sniper to me.

Talkin bout laning btw.

...Talkin bout pre-6 laning btw.

His early energy costs are massive, his e is essentially useless in lane since it relies on his enemy being dumb enough to either be in range of his w or in range of him, neither should you ever be as an AP mid, and his q cd is rather large early game, so he either has to choose between harassing you with no guarantee, or csing subpar and being harassed easily as a trade off. No good mid player loses lane to a zed unless it's a heavy counterpick like veigar or something. My guess is you faced a good zed, he made the most of his champions strengths without anyone on your team knowing how to deal with him, and you got dicked. QQ More.

OyddAWqJ5rSep 6, 20152 votes

No good mid player loses to Zed and no good mid player loses as Zed. Why? Because read what you replied to. This was never a QQ thread about his kill power in lane.

I appreciate the ignorance tho.

360D3GR3SSSep 5, 20151 votes

Guess what? You can go cloth 5 if you want to out sustain him and beat him in lane, or you could simply take exhaust and he can never kill you.

OyddAWqJ5rSep 6, 20154 votes

If you read what you replied to you'd know this was never about him killing anyone.