As A Top Laner I LOVE It When Mid Ganks For Bot Lane, They Take Tower And Then We All Push Down Mid

OyddAWqJ5r·Jun 5, 2015·119 votes·5,130 views

Cuz that's how games are really won. And quickly instead of this 40 minute bs. Fite me other thread.

102 Comments

DarthVader009Jun 5, 201533 votes

Seriously, I hate these 40 minute games. I swear half my games would have been wins instead of losses if my team would just do this.

OyddAWqJ5rJun 5, 201521 votes

Lol forreal. But then there's that other thread trying to promote sitting in lane for as long as possible. Screw that, just go win the game jeez.

Joe DreddJun 5, 20153 votes

(^: let them stay bad

WillHealForHonorJun 7, 20151 votes

i have tried a game where i was ziggs i litterally wavwcleared for 8 mins straight with 3-4 constantly in my lane wasting time.. guess what.. my team didnt capatalize and we still lost.. :(

AFK PushJun 5, 201510 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jPsoEhMa,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-06-05T12:07:45.013+0000)

Lol forreal. But then there's that other thread trying to promote sitting in lane for as long as possible. Screw that, just go win the game jeez.

I think the dude was complaining about people that come mid just for the sake of coming mid, even when they aren't in a position to siege which means a lot of time was wasted and the adc just took all of his farm. However, that doesn't mean they couldn't have pushed mid then go for drag, bot, or top tower.

Titanium70Jun 6, 20153 votes

The other Thread has its point! Last time i won with anivia the opponent bot-lane did exactly this after my opponent helped them to get kills/tower. End of the Story: They were desperately trying to get my tower(ANIVIA!) ending losing 2 levels, and the Game shortly after!...

Roaming Mid as Bptlane is good to end games, but have to be in the spot.. well to ACTUALLY END the Game.

Fargo79Jun 5, 201511 votes

I always tell mid laners if you cant follow your enemy when they roam for counter ganking then take tower and make him pay for leaving his lane so much.. cause sometime you cant contend with someone elses mobility.. like a zed, LB, Ahri, Kat.

OyddAWqJ5rJun 5, 20156 votes

Holy, this is a HUGE one. Especially against the current "OP" champions. Most of them only become unstoppable due to constant unpunished roaming. But the laner is too scared to push in even though that "OP" champ is nowhere near the lane. Seriously irks me when my mid is under his turret while their mid is ganking another lane.

Father CthulhuJun 5, 20151 votes

Well that's also a tactic for roaming, too. Especially if the opposing mid laner has horrible waveclear, push the wave under their turret and roam.

OyddAWqJ5rJun 5, 20154 votes

Well, what I was trying to say is that the mid laner is STILL under turret despite the fact that the mid laner had already come bot, killed the lane and is on their way back to mid.

NOONE in the game has waveclear that bad.

QuortJun 5, 20153 votes

Bard and Sona have pretty bad waveclear. :|

Hyrum GraffJun 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Bard and Sona have pretty bad waveclear. :|

Which is why they're not played mid at high elo / pro. Same with AP Ez.

QuortJun 6, 20151 votes

I've never tried either mid, but often I'll myself at bot tower with a massive group of minions on it... And by the time I'll kill a few of them the next wave has arrived (this is only compounded by the fact that as Bard I build very little AP).

And nice catch on AP Ezreal! I've never played him so I hadnt thought of that.

Father CthulhuJun 5, 20151 votes

Well, say it's Zed versus Annie midlane. Zed outpushes her super hard, so most of the time I can manage to push to her turret, roam, and come back and her still be toward the middle of the lane.

OyddAWqJ5rJun 6, 20151 votes

You're telling me Annie can't demolish the wave with W and repeated no cost Q's if she needed to?

Father CthulhuJun 6, 20151 votes

At early levels? Hardly enough to keep up with a zed. W doesn't kill minions as fast as you'd like to imagine with just a morello's.

Davy CrockettJun 7, 20151 votes

Veigar early levels

OrbvJun 5, 20154 votes

Absolutely agree. I like playing Karma mid, so catching up normally isn't a problem and getting caught mid-river while following isn't as punished. But when I sometimes choose to go with Morde or Heimer, I often get blamed for pushing instead of following Kat or Talon. I just think "I'm playing a pushing champ.......with low base movement speed....ignore the ignorance."

Ih8ucuzurtoxicJun 5, 20151 votes

Your goal as a laner is to fight the opponent in your lane. Regardless of where they wander off to. Just had a ranked game where mid and top sat farming minions while bot was 5v2'd every time we got back to tower.

macromiteJun 5, 20151 votes

actually, the job of the laner is to win lane. honestly, the best way to counter a roam is to push, they end up losing the farm war, and maybe a turret for it then.

Ih8ucuzurtoxicJun 5, 20151 votes

Actually, you're right. HOW you win that lane is different than just pushing it.

Over and over I see mids and tops pushing towers while we're getting ripped apart 4v2 at bot because they're too good to help their team mates. Pushing the tower does NOTHING if you just had 3-4 people die on your team and lost a tower cause you need to "win lane" or cs.

MAP CONTROL > CS/TOWERS/EVERYTHING ELSE YOU'VE CONFUSED YOURSELF INTO THINKING.

macromiteJun 6, 20151 votes

I'm still taking about laning phase, and if my advice is followed, then bot may lose the fight and give kills, but good chance that they will be the only two deaths, and we suddenly have a massive advantage on the other lanes.

Let me break it down simple, with a scenario that fits the criteria of the problem. I'll cut it down to the most general terms that portray the situation effectively to try to help this stay simple. For all intents and purposes, the jungler can be anywhere before this starts, for the sake of simplicity.

Lets say the enemy midlane is a high mobility assassin, and your midlane is a high mobility mage. You are playing a hyper carry, with a peel heavy support, and the enemy is doing likewise on bot Your top lane is a high mobility bruiser, and the enemy top lane is a low mobility farm heavy full tank. Your jungle is a low mobility fighter tank, and theirs is a high mobility bruiser. This part is incredibly important, because knowing the kind of opponents you have can determine what your play should be in a game.

Lets now say, that the enemy mid lane gets into a position of advantage, where they have managed to force your midlane to base with little harm for them, and instead of going for the enemy tower, they want to secure a dragon by going bot lane to push your lane back. the enemy jungler agrees with this plan unbeknownst to you, and a 4 man is initiated. I'm using this position as a point of beginning because very seldom does roaming occur when lanes are even, midlane already has some sort of advantage, and time to push it.

On bot lane, before all this, lets say you were doing better than your opponents slightly, close enough to be a good looking gank, and currently pushed on the opponents side of the river. your support has the river warded in the bush right next to lane, but there are no other wards because your support does not have a sight stone yet. you have not gotten any kills, but lane is most certainly yours at this point. This part matters, especially at the place y our support put the ward. warding is important, but during laning it can be difficult keeping all the places you need warded near bottom to be warded. specifically you need a ward in the near river bush, a deep ward in the river, and another ward that can see the inside of the dragon pit. this warding is a team effort, but the support alone is capable of it, if need be. I'm not mentioning scuttle, because scuttle would end this roam.

Your toplane is currently winning, but has scored no kills on the enemy. As a final note, this is still important to my overall point.

Here is the actual gank, your ward spots them before the enemy gets to you, but its too close, and the mobility of the attackers make up for this, meaning that you get surrounded and killed very quickly. your support would be able t ohelp a great deal, but in this setting, the skill of all the players is too close for your support to save you from all of the enemy, which is the most realistic thing to happen. A few points that should be added to this is that the midlane probably did not ping mia, expecting the enemy to buy.

Then we get to the point where you want your midlaner to chase down the other midlaner. and here is the problem with this, your midlaner in this scenario is already nowhere near, and was not in position at any point to help you. The jungler could come, but the would make it worse. the point of ganking is to bring an advantage, and if you aren't doing that is a gank, you had better not gank. a 4 V 3 is still garbage for you, especially considering the junglers gold and exp is reduced, simply by them needing to jungle. top could tp, but that leaves their laner to farm, and you can be sure that a farm lane will NOT be leaving lane to chase anyone, atleast any decent farm laner. That leaves bot alone in the best case scenario, meaning only two people die. If you want to counter and say that everyone should go, you come across some new problems. jungle and top would show around the same time, but a good chance is bot is already dead. and mid is too far to show up until a bit later, probably after the other two are also dead, so you end up aced, because you cant just flash to other lanes, there is significant distance between them.

so then, bot lane just got boned six ways from sunday, how do you get back from this? relying on other lanes, and helping them snowball as hard as you can. jungler should gank top or mid, to help shove and push back the laners, and mid should start pushing hard to stop the enemy from roaming much anymore, if possible. and after you see the enemy roam once, expect it from then on, and ward, everything.

I can agree with you on something though, it is how you win lane, or more precisely, how you react to the situations given. I can admit, there are situations where chasing the enemy down is advantageous, but there are also times when doing so can cost the game. its just best to keep your head in it, and remember, you don't need to carry every game.

Little tip as well, Nexus>Teamfight>Baron>Dragon>Tower>Kill>Cs. Teamfight does not apply during laning.

Tldr; Keep on your toes, everything is situational.

Ih8ucuzurtoxicJun 6, 20151 votes

Yeah, like I said, Map Control > anything else.

Pushing your tower and losing bot while playing mid is REALLY bad.

macromiteJun 6, 20151 votes

Losing mid because you went bot is also bad, which is what my case says, if you read it.

Map control is only a part of the game, and not the most important part, that goes to objective control.

Ih8ucuzurtoxicJun 6, 20151 votes

I can't argue with a wall. Enjoy being right. I'm sure it's working out for you.

macromiteJun 6, 20152 votes

We were arguing?

MartyrofsandJun 5, 20157 votes

Sadly while a lot of people know how to win lane they have no clue how to win games. Its gotten to the point for me where I have started putting a damn near unhealthy focus on split pushing, especially if I'm top lane, because most of my teams spend all their time dicking around in the jungle instead of pushing objectives. Kinda sad when I solo push down nexus turrets while my team hasn't even taken the outter mid turret.

OyddAWqJ5rJun 5, 20154 votes

Had a game where I went 5/0/10 on Cho. I won lane and the rest of my team had similar results. All in all we were 26 - 3 out of lane. Wanna know how long it took us to end?

49 MINUTES!!! HOLY HELL! That game went on wayyyyyy too long cuz of constant splitpushing and "farming" instead of pressing our ginormous lead and winning the game. I had to buy a Zzrot just so I could solo take turrets since my team wasn't going with me. And if I'm able to 1v5 AND take turret we obviously have a huge lead. A huge lead that coulda turned into a loss cuz noone wanted to group.

What's the point of farm if you don't even use the strength you get from it? All they did with their gold from farming was use it to farm some more. Seriously, go end the game.

"What's the point of packin' a sword like that if you aren't even gonna use it?" - Nero, Devil May Cry 4. Hyped for Special Edition.

Champion SkinJun 5, 20151 votes

And well if you had any initiation you could probably have crushed them so hard in a fight Any initiation/lock down + Cho'gath Q + W is just so insanely strong and will lock them down for so long

OyddAWqJ5rJun 5, 20152 votes

I wish, but even so my Q's were landing every time and I was tanking through turrets anyway. Just needed someone to help DPS them down :/

The Blue RajahJun 6, 20153 votes

If you're ever playing a Mage type and you really wanna increase your tower damaging potential, get an elixir of sorcery. 25 true damage on hit to turrets is real.

StrawberrycocoaJun 5, 20151 votes

Completely one-hundred-fucking-percent agree.

Had a game the other day where our top laner was doing nothing but farm. Not even taking towers, just pushing the lane backing then going back to farm more. Which would be fine if they joined fights or took objectives but they didn't do ANY of that. They farmed up a huge amount of gold but didn't put it to USE in any sizeable way.

Blows my mind how people don't get that: you farm gold to put it to use against the enemy team, not to go back and make more gold.

OyddAWqJ5rJun 6, 20151 votes

It's a completely valid strategy for before towers go down. Once towers are down that top lane should be splitpushing hard or grouping.

Only Play DariusJun 6, 20153 votes

"A huge lead that coulda turned into a loss cuz noone wanted to group."

MasterYi Zed Fiora Nasus Tryndamere Darius

Cho'gath may be good in teamfights, but there are some champions who simply work better alone and you have to respect that. They splitpush because in teamfights they get endlessly kited or focused and deleted, and have almost no utility to offer their team during said teamfights, and it's no fun. Not everyone can be Amumu Nautilus Katarina Sion Veigar Sona etc.

The guys off splitpushing do it because they can 1v1 anyone on the enemy team. If they send 2 people, then they can kill one of them and still escape with their life. As a general rule, it takes at least 3 people to kill a good splitpusher who warded, as in the enemy team just dedicated more than half their team to kill off the most teamfight-useless member of your team. If you can't take advantage of that then that's on you.

KING ATTILAJun 6, 20151 votes

This spoke to my heart as a Tryndamere main <3

Only Play DariusJun 6, 20152 votes

I'm touched. As much as I personally dislike Tryndamere, you're cool with me. In fact, i'm a Nasus main, we aren't too different!

SammystormJun 5, 20154 votes

the other thread wasn't complaining about pushing down mid but rather people coming mid and just farming which does happen more than you would think.

WillHealForHonorJun 5, 20153 votes

Funny thing is when im ziggs i have often pushed all the way in to inhib tower and then gotten half health on inhib tower and still lost because people flame me for not "helping" imo smashing mid is much more valuable..

Hyrum GraffJun 6, 20153 votes

Upvoted only so this would beat the other thread.

Only Play DariusJun 5, 20152 votes

I main Nasus . I disagree with your approach. Come at me.

OyddAWqJ5rJun 5, 20156 votes

But not coming at you and instead going for the base and ending before you have any real power is still the better approach. You can't fool me Susan.

Only Play DariusJun 5, 20151 votes

Ok. How about when i'm on your team and I farm the entire game because 2-shotting the ADC is too fun?

OyddAWqJ5rJun 5, 20155 votes

Then... Thanks? You're top lane, no need to roam if you don't want to. Do Susan things while we play the game and come back whenever you're done playing Farming Simulator 2015: Rivals Edition.

Seriously though if top can hold the other top there then there's no need to leave top other than to tp into objectives when the enemy top does so or whenever you feel like it'd be best you help out.

Only Play DariusJun 5, 20151 votes

Well see, I don't follow the enemy top around, because I would miss farm!

I call my MIA's so it's your fault if you decide to pick a fight at the wrong time.

lDontLiftIcarryJun 5, 20152 votes

and thats why you don't win games often enough to climb to anywhere meaningful on the ladder lol

stochastic42Jun 5, 20152 votes

This is far too simplistic to be a meaningful strategy.

If your comp is late game scaling champs who build tears you most definitely do not want to group and push mid, that's like saying 'here, ace us at our biggest power trough and win the game'

If your team spikes early and is a siege comp then this is a brilliant strategy.

HellioningJun 6, 20152 votes

That's never how it works. It's 'someone kills a bot tower, both bot lanes come mid, and we play ARAM for the next 5 or so minutes'.

OyddAWqJ5rJun 6, 20151 votes

Which is ideally how it should work. Next step is winning mid. For 5 minutes though, that just means the aggressing team isn't even attempting to put shots on tower.

HellioningJun 6, 20151 votes

Yeah, they're not trying to push heavily or anything, they're just trading skillshots back and forth and waveclearing. Occasionally, the junglers even show up to vaguely threaten a bad engage.

OyddAWqJ5rJun 6, 20151 votes

Those players are gems, gems that are truly, truly outrageous.