Bramble Vest is a godlike item

OyddAWqJ5r·Jul 13, 2017·115 votes·9,646 views

900g and applies GW. Effective vs a wide range of top laners (namely that Fiora champ you all like to whine about) and useful throughout the entire game vs ADC's.

Almost no reason not to dump the 900g for it. Just don't rush Thornmail, not worth the cost imo.

Edit: for peeps saying executioners is better:

Bramble gives 35 armor vs 10 AD
It deals 20 magic damage on being hit vs 15 AD on your 0.6~ or less attack speed
Tanks typically dont want AD but like armor
You don't need ranged attacks to apply it
It builds into a defensive late game item
Tanks definitely don't want Mortal Reminder

142 Comments

DoktorKaiserJul 13, 201733 votes

I hate how this again murders innocent champs like Aatrox DrMundo Volibear just so we can survive the cancers Draven Fiora Yasuo Riven
[zombie-nunu-tears]

Hello I am BirdJul 13, 201719 votes

I don't think Voli really relies on his passive all that much tbh And mundo has cancerous amounts of sustain in the first place ######inb4 "But that's his thematic so it makes it ok"

I do think Aatrox doesn't need this though </3

DoktorKaiserJul 13, 20173 votes

Wut I am mastery lvl 7 Voli, without his passive he is not even a champ, maybe a siege minion.

Hello I am BirdJul 14, 20172 votes

So you're saying that without his passive up, he literally cannot be efficent in the game whatsoever.

I'm gonna say bs. His passive just gives him a bit more survivability, he doesn't use it as a crutch to be viable in the game.

Zëd LęppelinJul 13, 20174 votes

is this really a comment saying Mundo is op?????

SqkergJul 13, 201714 votes

Cancer =/= op

LuminierJul 14, 20174 votes

As a mastery 7 Aatrox, I really do appreciate your empathy <3

WolfeurJul 13, 201732 votes

item 3123 800g

Rockm SockmJul 13, 201774 votes

{quoted}

800g

Tanks don't want to waste 800g on that

WolfeurJul 13, 20176 votes

I just mean that the "Wtf, GW for few golds" is not really a compelling argument. How many people actually buy Executioner's calling?

ThilmerJul 13, 201715 votes

{quoted}

I just mean that the "Wtf, GW for few golds" is not really a compelling argument. How many people actually buy Executioner's calling?

Most people don't buy it; then they complain because the enemies heal so much.

PureSilvrrJul 13, 201712 votes

And when I tell my allies to buy one to stop the fed Nasus,a nd Ww's healing. Nope, f you.

Risk of FateJul 13, 20173 votes

[deleted]

SzGamer227Jul 13, 20172 votes

Vladimir once carried a 4v5 with Soraka, Janna, and Ivern to support him. In the end, Grievous Wounds didn't matter because 40% reduced healing versus a draintank with a Soraka and two shielding supports isn't going to make him mortal.

Not really related to what you said, it just gave me Vietnam flashbacks...

Glory ln DeathJul 13, 20173 votes

As a tank? Champions who tend to deal almost exclusively magic damage? Champions with slow, melee auto attacks and can't normally get to more than 1 or 2 enemies are a time? No, the tank shouldn't be building Executioner's unless the ADC is braindead and refuses to.

Zëd LęppelinJul 13, 20171 votes

Your username is 'Glory in Death' Sion's damage is more physical than magical imo.

Glory ln DeathJul 13, 20172 votes

Yes, hence the "tend to deal almost exclusively magic damage", rather than "all tanks only deal magic damage". Sion is pretty much the only exception, and only 1 of his basic abilities deals physical damage. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other tanks that have physical damage abilities.

PureSilvrrJul 13, 20172 votes

Add Ww, Nasus, Swain, and any fed adc to that list.

FantasySniperJul 13, 20178 votes

There is an argument to make here, though. If you're not going to finish Bramble vest anyways, Executioner's does the same thing for 100 less gold.

At the very least, Executioner's is better if you have any AD scaling.

WarpesJul 13, 20174 votes

{quoted}

There is an argument to make here, though. If you're not going to finish Bramble vest anyways, Executioner's does the same thing for 100 less gold.

At the very least, Executioner's is better if you have any AD scaling.

No. Tanks don't build Executioners... AD or not..

SzGamer227Jul 13, 201712 votes

Tanks aren't the only top lane class that would need to inflict GW. Juggernaut, bruiser, fighter, diver...

...adc...

Glory ln DeathJul 13, 201731 votes

Most tanks don't have many AD scalings, and they deal mostly magic damage. Meaning, most tanks will have to auto attack enemies to apply GW, which doesn't work too well against ranges champions. It is also difficult to apply it to multiple champions at once.

On the other hand, Bramblevest works even if you can't attack, affects all enemies attacking you, and provides durability against those attacks through its armor - a stat tanks actually want, whether or not they end up completing Thornmail.

AlienPrimateJul 13, 20177 votes

Executioner's calling would still be a better choice against champions like Swain and Vlad though. They could simply look at your build and not auto attack you once you get the vest.

Glory ln DeathJul 13, 201716 votes

Honestly, if you can't apply the GW from Executioner's, there's no point in getting it. Against champions like Vlad and Swain, just build MR - that'll be a lot more effective than having to walk up to them to slap them, putting yourself in full range of their damage. Because you can't apply the GW, it won't do any good during laning phase, and it really isn't effective for you to have it during teamfights. Just yell at your ADC until they get it.

PluniverseJul 13, 20174 votes

Actually executioners on riven and fiora help them win the vlad / swain matchup by a landslide. once they all in its gg since they cant heal.

5000000000000000Jul 13, 201718 votes

Well yes, that's what he meant when he said "If you can't apply the GW." Both Riven and Fiora are mobile physical damage dealers, so they can reliably apply GW.

ModValeevaJul 13, 20173 votes

I'll be sure to build Executioners on Shen next-time LUL

ChaoticPineconeJul 14, 20173 votes

Riven and Fiora want as much AD as possible and dont really build thornmail.

Hyrum GraffJul 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Actually executioners on riven and fiora help them win the vlad / swain matchup by a landslide. once they all in its gg since they cant heal.

Riv and Fio aren't exactly tanks, tho.

FantasySniperJul 14, 20172 votes

Top lane tanks/bruisers/juggernauits like Sion, Darius, Poppy, Garen, Kled, Yorick, Nasus, etc. would get more use out of Executioner's than Bramble.

Duchu26Jul 13, 20176 votes

The thing is, comparing item 3076 to item 1031 , you pay 100g more for 5 less Armor and Grievous Wounds passive.

item 3123 gives 5 AD more than item 1036 and GW passive, but costs more than double.

WolfeurJul 13, 20176 votes

5 more AD is 50% more, so it's AD is worth 525. Plus, it comprises GW, for a total of 275 gold meant for it.

5 less armor is 12.5% less, so it's armor is worth 700. GW and damage reflection are only 200 gold, but the lack of control over it makes it up for the smaller price.

It's kinda balanced, I would say.

QuephaJul 13, 20172 votes

If you're brawling with your lane opponent and you have equivalent attack speeds, bramble vest will deal 33% more damage to the opponent while also giving you 35 armor to reduce the enemy's damage to you. That sounds very, very worth the extra 100 gold pricetag.

nGioJul 13, 201715 votes

Yeah, I'm really liking Bramble. Now if we can just get it to build into an item worth spending an extra 2k gold on, because what you get for the 2k going into Thornmail is pretty laughable.

GrReaper96Jul 13, 20171 votes

I havent played in quite a while, so im wondering whats the problem with the current thornmail?

YumaS2AstralJul 13, 20176 votes

Damage has been nerfed to oblivion, attack speed reduction (which makes Thornmail counter itself since attack speed slows make the enemy attack you less times, thus take less damage from Thornmail)

On my opinion they should replace item 3082 with item 1031 on Thornmail's recipe, remove the attack speed slow passive, and buff the damage passive to compensate.

However, they should not buff the damage passive too much. As long as Thornmail has Grievous Wounds, it cannot have damage compared to its old self.

TwitchInMyPantsJul 14, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Damage has been nerfed to oblivion, attack speed reduction (which makes Thornmail counter itself since attack speed slows make the enemy attack you less times, thus take less damage from Thornmail)

On my opinion they should replace with on Thornmail's recipe, remove the attack speed slow passive, and buff the damage passive to compensate.

However, they should not buff the damage passive too much. As long as Thornmail has Grievous Wounds, it cannot have damage compared to its old self.

The point of the damage is a deterrent, unless you were Rammus you weren't using the item to kill. Being hurt as you hit is meant to make you pick a different target. AS slow + grevious wounds is a higher deterrent than a small amount of damage, even if its better than this even piddly amount.

That -25 armor though is pretty absurd for an endgame item slot.

FilDaFunkJul 13, 201713 votes

You get Grevious Wounds. YOU get Grevious Wounds. EVERYBODY GETS GREVIOUS WOUNDS! https://giphy.com/gifs/y8Mz1yj13s3kI/html5

RogueWillJul 13, 201710 votes

yeah but ADC getting grievous wounds by 800g item 3123 is perfectly ok. I love how people have double standards.

VekknaJul 13, 201710 votes

Meanwhile, AP have to spend 2900 gold and only get it below 40%.

Itemization 2k17.

RiviniJul 13, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile, AP have to spend 2900 gold and only get it below 40%.

Itemization 2k17.

And for most AP champions, it can only be applied with spells on top of that.

Riot's favoritism towards their AD champions at its best.

VekknaJul 13, 20173 votes

No, favoritism at its best is item 3812 versus the WotA replacement.... item 3010

RiviniJul 13, 20175 votes

{quoted}

No, favoritism at its best is versus the WotA replacement....

Don't forget, that was right after the fact Riot claimed "spell vamp is unhealthy for the game," but of course just spell vamp for their precious AD champs wasn't enough. They had to make it also work like a lifesteal item (because there clearly aren't enough lifesteal items in the game Kappa) and bloat it with % damage reduction and CDR. WotA only ever had AP and spell vamp, aside from the short time when it also had a little CDR if I'm remembering right.

Another itemization example to look at is:

item 3135 vs. item 3036 item 3033

AP itemization is a complete joke compared to AD itemization. I've been noticing this trend in favoritism for years and it's disgusting.

VekknaJul 13, 20171 votes

Not to mention the fact that spell vamp was removed literally the exact same patch they reworked every mage that abused it. Everyone kept defending the removal because Vlad abused it. So, like....try making reworks that don't abuse it?

It's the dumbest thing I've ever seen: AD ratios + physical damage: Spell vamp totally balanced! AP ratios + physical damage: Spell vamp totally balanced! AD ratios + magic damage: Spell vamp totally balanced! AP ratios + strong AA damage: Spell vamp totally balanced! Hybrid ratios + hybrid damage: Spell vamp totally balanced! AP ratios only + magic damage only: Spell vamp totally broken and impossible to balance, y'all!!!

RiviniJul 13, 20173 votes

The easier and more justified way to go was to rework Vlad so he didn't make having WotA so OP, but that wouldn't do for them. In Riot's eyes, for some strange, twisted reason, mages should die if they unload their combo and don't kill their target(s). I've never seen a PvP game where sustain options were severely limited to one class and favored for another.

It really doesn't make sense because lifesteal isn't balanced on champs who go full AD and crit. How is it fair that they can heal for hundreds of health on every quick, rapid basic attack dealing 1000+ damage each, but mages healing for maybe 100 at most on cooldown-based attacks is considered ridiculous? Why should one class be able to heal back during a fight while the other can't, and at the same time putting out far more DPS that requires no mana or cooldowns?

There is no other way to put it. It's Riot's favoritism for their flashy, mobile, action-packed AD right-clickers.

AlmightyJul 13, 20174 votes

Oh, great. More cheap items that render my dear Soraka 's one true strenght useless. Might as well just make an item that reduces shield strenght too. Because "hur dur supports hard to deal with."

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Almighty.

VeltoxJul 13, 20178 votes

And what do you suggest? Soraka being strong means having a walking fountain following you.

RiviniJul 13, 201719 votes

{quoted}

Oh, great. More cheap items that render my dear 's one true strenght useless. Might as well just make an item that reduces shield strenght too. Because "hur dur supports hard to deal with."

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Almighty.

Signing comments is such a pretentious thing to do.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Rivini

inuitmailmanJul 13, 20176 votes

I laughed

VekknaJul 13, 20172 votes

I've been rushing item 3076 vs. heavy AD threats as Poppy and Camille, and it's not as strong as people are saying. I had some success rushing it one game vs. a Riven, but that Riven was godawful.

My experience vs. Yasuo was that it was amazing because the thorns damage popped his cancer passive shield. It was amazing on Poppy. He got a Zeal and still wrecked me as Camille, but I'm also pretty horrible with her.