Kalista, in exchange for incredible mobility, deals only 90% damage fro auto attacks on any target.
Fiora and Vayne, in exchange for a type of damage with no item counters, give up nothing.
It's just odd that additional damage with no defensive counters isn't balanced with a reduction in the physical damage dealt.
Anonagon4 votesoh nice another "muh %hp True damage is inherently busted" thread
%hp true damage is an acceptable tool that Riot can give a champion to give them target agnostic damage, and to make sure certain champions are always kill threats
maybe instead of complaining about your inability to win against certain champions by just buying items, you could learn how to beat them straight up
The Ecdysiast3 votesMight be reasonable if the champions who do this weren't specifically designed to easily play around opponents.
Maybe instead of thinking players can't play, you should learn that items actually matter in this game?
Though if you really didn't know that, there's not much to hope for reasonable discussion from you.
The Lost Marbles3 votesYou act like Health and Armor don't still do something against Vayne and Fiora.
For both of them, their true damage is being dealt alongside the auto attacks that are triggering said true damage. By protecting yourself against that damage, you're still lessening the damage they do to you.
The Ecdysiast1 votesWhich would be a sound argument, if they inherently had a drawback to coincide with their true damage, like the 10% AA reduction of Kalista or the 10-25% crit reduction of Yasuo and Jhin. But their auto attacks still 100% scale with their AD, meaning armor is less effective against them than anyone else besides Kalista.
SpookyNeedle3 votesYou act like Fiora doesn't have to hit vitals to deal true damage
The Ecdysiast1 votesYou act like there's any difficulty at all in doing that, since she has a dash to help with it as opposed to a weakness like immobility to actually make it difficult.
The Ecdysiast1 votesPretend that's hard all you want. A strong winrate across all player skill levels proves you wrong.
Ok sure but why2 votesYou act like Vayne doesn't have to keep focused on one single target during an entire teamfight to proc her true damage
OtterlyLost2 votes[{quoted}](name=JZ Jora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fvJZE20Y,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-04-30T06:30:07.411+0000)
You act like Vayne doesn't have to keep focused on one single target during an entire teamfight to proc her true damage
You act like all ADCs aren't better off focusing down one person in a teamfight. I don't know about you but I'm not swapping my attention on Tristana or Caitlyn mid teamfight. :/
Ok sure but why1 votesYou act like %max health damage is the part about Vayne ADCs fear
OtterlyLost2 votes[{quoted}](name=JZ Jora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fvJZE20Y,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2017-05-02T04:10:33.482+0000)
You act like %max health damage is the part about Vayne ADCs fear
??? In what way does what other ADCs fear about Vayne have context in this argument. What other ADCs fear about Vayne(though irrelevant) is not the %max health true damage, no. Its the massive AD Steroid on her Tumble (on a 2 second CD at rank 5) coupled with the AD steroid and stealth her ult gives her that other ADCs fear. There is literally nothing another ADC can do if the Vayne has ulted because they can never get any AA's in because of her stealth. :/ Vayne is a monstrously overloaded piece of shit that is unmatched late game; she can not only duel squishies and burst them down with her AD steroid but she can melt and demolish tanks and bruisers with her % health True damage. If they were even remotely willing to compromise on anything with her kit, I wouldn't dislike her half as much and feel like she was half as unhealthy. But they aren't willing to in the slightest.
Ok sure but why1 votesYea
Her true damage is the only healthy part about her
OtterlyLost1 votes[{quoted}](name=JZ Jora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fvJZE20Y,comment-id=0002000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-03T00:50:13.617+0000)
Yea
Her true damage is the only healthy part about her
No. Its not. None of her kit is healthy. The True damage is unhealthy because it removes one of the key counter plays to ADCs; the ability to build armor and health to reduce their damage. The Tumble/Stealth is unhealthy because it doesn't allow other ADCs to safely deal with her and they removed the only form of counter play that had.
The Ecdysiast1 votesShe doesn't.
She has to hit someone 3 times.
The Ecdysiast1 votesThey additional damage renders that moot, whereas defensive items are actually effective against every other champion.
Perhaps it'll be make a difference when they swap HP for more armor on tank items in the upcoming update, but for now it's not enough to beat that strength, especially with how well these two work with bork or penetration items to begin with.
Ok sure but why2 votesI sure prefer that over flat true damage. At least with %max, your poor ADC won't get fucked as hard.
ugh.
The Ecdysiast1 votes
700 Health.
Vs. %, which you have no option to counter regardless of your itemization.
acehole761 votesWho or what are you talking about
The Ecdysiast1 votesFiora's passive and Vayne's w. Other champions that have true damage don't have it deal a flat percent of health because of what I said in the post. The mechanic alone forces Riot to balance these two completely around their true damage. But champions like Gangplank, Rek'sai, Darius, and Camille have flat amounts of true damage, instead. This makes it so that you can effectively buy more health against them to counter it.
OtterlyLost1 votesI agree that % Health True Damage is mechanic/damage type in the game that is inherently toxic because it lacks no noticeable counterplay. It especially should not be allowed on an ADC like Vayne, who is hyper mobile(2 second tumble at rank 5 and stealth with a knock bock is pretty mobile for an AD when we have ADCs like Kog, Varus, Jhin, and Jinx who have no dashes and are meant to scale harder than her) and has great kiting potential because of it. How you deal with ADCs has always been a matter of CC or stat checking; what are you meant to do when stat checking doesn't work and they have the mobility to dodge your CC?
I've always thought that Vayne and Fiora for that matter, were exceptionally unhealthy and poorly designed champions because their entire kit revolves around something that is unhealthy. Usually the counter play to them would be to shut them down earlier but I have to ask,"What is there to shut down?" Vayne doesn't even have to build damage to destroy tanks; she literally only needs AS in order to come back later in the game. I've destroyed so many Vayne's early but it didn't matter because their true damage meant,"Yeah, I have two less items then you buy I'm still demolishing your tank and then you because I get massive amounts of free AD off my tumble! c:"
Vayne is inherently designed in a way that means she can easily play from behind and that just negates the fact that her early game is terrible. :/ She, as an ADC, can literally build anything as long as it gives her AS and still do fine.
I wish they'd look at % Health True Damage and do something about it.
The Lost Marbles1 votesThe strongest part of Vayne's kit is actually the fact that Tumble's bonus damage can critically strike.
Variks the Loyal1 votesWhile I do think Vayne's damage is gonna end up being too high (Tumble crits OP), Fiora's true damage is easily played around.
In lane, if she gets and aggressive Vital, walk offscreen to drop it and walk back. You won't miss any farm (Probably), and she'll be left with a bad Vital; a Vital cannot spawn towards her twice in a row, and you can abuse this by walking offscreen whenever she gets a beneficial Vital.
During her ult, just stand against a wall. You'll take a lot of damage from the others, but if you're playing a tanky Juggernaut or Diver, the rest of her damage will be noodles and she won't get the healing zone. I always use this tactic to beat Fiora as 
.