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Why does ziggs W have a 26 second cooldown?

SwiftKitten88··28 votes·4,034 views

Ziggs 's satchel charge (his w), has THE longest cooldown of any champ i play, i don't play every champ. and I'm not an expert on what cooldowns should be, but this seems CRAZY long for a non-ultimate ability.

but i do play ziggs so i do know this

W (satchel charge) is always maxed last its cooldown is 26/24/22/20/18 seconds based on rank

this is Ziggs ONLY form of escape other thansummoner 4 but it is also his only way to interrupt things and it is also VERY easy to mess up with,and can be unreliable, you need a LOT of practice with it to get the angle and the distance and the location right every time. and after his rework designed to take down turrets.

now right off that bat, i think even cutting the cooldown by TEN SECONDS on all ranks, would honestly be POSSIBLE because of how high the cooldown currently is.

other option could including just a flat say 12-16 second flat cooldown at all ranks.

or another option could be to leave the cooldown as is, but refund HALF of the cooldown if the explosion hits and enemy champion.

a 26 second cooldown is CRAZY long and even 18 seconds is long and that's the FINAL cooldown.

why is his cooldown so darn long?

125 Comments

Sire Hippington26 votes

because as a longranged poke/siege mage, he already is pretty save by default, having an escape on top of that is quite strong, thus that escape has a massive cd. No other mage with similar range has an escape.

However, i wish it would get reduced cd if you hit an opponent with it to promote agressive usage.

Zero Skill Tank3 votes

However, i wish it would get reduced cd if you hit an opponent with it to promote agressive usage.

This could easily backfire though, satel charge's knockup is powerful defensive ability by itself.

Sire Hippington1 votes

Not more powerfull than the defensive tools of other artilery mages. The 2 sec snare of lux or the kockback of velcoz are similar effective, and just as those tools, it's not that effective if you get engaged on from multiple angles(which usually is the case with ganks) in contrast to it's use as escape.

alasarcher12 votes

Because he is mage. Mages arent supposed to have mobility.

EndlessSorcerer7 votes

Mages arent supposed to have mobility.

Ahri That's news to me.

alasarcher7 votes

{quoted}

Ahri That's news to me.

Thats an ASSASSIN. Mobility defines ASSASSINS

Captain Lito2 votes

Wrong, she's a kite-mage and jack of all trades. If you have a problem you can tell it to my 2 years of maining the champ.

Blåbæret1 votes

Lmao, let's make up our own sub-classes shall we? Ahri doesn't even kite.

Captain Lito7 votes

You can ask Riot, they clearly stated that they wanted her to be a Kite Mage. Not like I asked for that to happen.

Do some research before making claims about me making up subclasses, thanks.

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

They specifically used "kite mage" in the patch notes when they reworked her in 5.2.

Captain Lito3 votes

Thank you kind sir, appreciate it when someone comes to support my back.

Blåbæret1 votes

There's no such thing sry bud.

Captain Lito3 votes

Look at his link, you're just being an arrogant jerk now.

Edit: He linked it twice too.

Blåbæret2 votes

When that term turns up in the in-game store let me know. One rioter decided to use the term and now it's kanon?

Nah, sry bud. It's not even an accurate description.

Captain Lito6 votes

Oh it's only that whatever Riot changes is a representation of what they want the champ to be, especially if they're bold enough to make a new term to describe it in patch notes (which are MEANT to give their reasoning as a company), but go ahead and keep wasting people's time, I've made my point here.

EndlessSorcerer4 votes

She used to be an assassin when Charm amplified her damage and DFG existed.

She has since been reworked into a mobile, kite-oriented mage.

alasarcher6 votes

{quoted}

She used to be an assassin when Charm amplified her damage and DFG existed.

She has since been reworked into a mobile, kite-oriented mage.

Yes but in order for her to do damage she has to come close. Ziggs does damage from far. He doesnt need mobility.

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

Ziggs is a siege/poke mage similar to Xerath. Those champions are designed to waveclear and deal damage from long range.

Lissandra is a mage who has to be close to her target to deal damage. She also has mobility.

Verdade7 votes

There are basically 3 siege mages (Xerath, Vel'koz and Ziggs) and they have:

  1. huge range
  2. very high damage
  3. very good CC/zone control/kiting power
  4. relatively short CDs

Their only weakness is squishiness. If you add reliable mobility to their kits, they became gods of the rift as nobody would ever have chance to catch/kill them, not with that range.

GuardAbuse2 votes

You missed Lux <3 But she follows that still.

Verdade2 votes

Yeah, forgot about Lux. But she's kinda weird with her shield and she relies on her auto weaving for maximal damage. Also her waveclear is lacking when compared to that trio. But that can be offset by her R, which has really low CD

Quort1 votes

I remember when I used to play AP Koggles. Good times.

Verdade1 votes

He's still pretty usable as AP, but its shadow of his former self.

Tormentula5 votes

{quoted}

Thats an ASSASSIN. Mobility defines ASSASSINS

Bard Assassin Meta

Voluug131 votes

Well, his mobilty consiste of 1 out of combat conditional haste, a mediocre haste on his shrines, and a ''everyone can use it'' tunnel.

Not really ''mobile'' in the assassin mobility way.

aLawfulFalafel2 votes

i hate bard

i hate good bards

i hate bad bards

but a good bard can be just as much an assassin as an ahri

also, it's a game for fun, so if your ahri playstyle is assassin and someone elses style is kite mage then so be it

"you don't have to be an ad carry to play in bot lane supports can do more than support and heimerdinger is actually not a troll pick its time to get creative and try new things" -Solwolf

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

While that should be the case; there's examples riot doesn't care. Azir AurelionSol Karma TwistedFate

Vistha Kai9 votes

Yasuo's Windwall is also at 26/24/22/20/18 and he doesn't get to build ANY CDR most of the time, unlike Ziggs.

Edit Guyz! Hey, guyz! This guy isn't blindly hating Yasuo, throw more downvotes!

Girard24 votes

All of Yasuo's base cooldown's are massively low.

Q scales with AS meaning realistically it would be around 1.3-2 seconds at all ranks W should be long, it's a stupid fucking ability E is a very low cooldown R has an insanely low base cooldown, it's ridiculous how impactful of an ability this is while being on such a short CD. Again, realistically at the mid-late game stages it's at a 30-50 second cooldown.

Vistha Kai3 votes

All of Yasuo's base cooldown's are massively low.

That's the point.

It was explicitly stated by Riot, his cooldowns are low and his Q doesn't even scale with CD, to prevent him from itemizing CDR to keep his other cooldowns as long as possible.

But it's fine. There's a lot of champion that also have long cooldowns and that's fine too. But when you get it on somebody with near to zero lane interactions, that's bad and should be buffed.

ARequestOfDeath1 votes

tanksuo?item 3031 item 3046 item 3742 item 3102 item 3748 item 3111

Vistha Kai3 votes

Aaaand how does that relate to my comment highly downvoted, because I don't blindly hate Yasuo?

ARequestOfDeath1 votes

just showing how much he doesn't need that ability

SnowFall1 votes

{quoted}

tanksuo?item 3031 item 3046 item 3742 item 3102 item 3748 item 3111

BotRK instead of Hydra works better

C9 Scott Free 6 votes

Because he can poke from forever stall out sieges builds a bunch of CDR and his W destroys towers that are at 35% health. You now have all the answers you need. Also, lowering the CD to where you want it drastically decreases the all in potential on a poke mage. He needs a weakness and if he flubs his w he is fucked. Thats the point. So it takes more skill. Your drop it to 12 seconds suggestion would make him a poking version of Fizz and could allow his team 3 structures in 2 minion waves possibly even 3 if the tower was softened already

Captain Lito3 votes

I mean, as it stands right now I could see some room to give him minor compensation (he just isn't filling his niche strongly at the moment), but it would probably only be like 3-5 seconds at rank 1 with his rank 5 w cooldown being the same, 12 is way too short yeah.

C9 Scott Free 5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Essence Thief,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fulG4snK,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-07-10T17:57:12.318+0000)

I mean, as it stands right now I could see some room to give him minor compensation (he just isn't filling his niche strongly at the moment), but it would probably only be like 3-5 seconds at rank 1 with his rank 5 w cooldown being the same, 12 is way too short yeah.

he doesn't need it. If he got this buff he would legit get kneecapped later. Poking isn't the meta right now. He sees play in the CBLOL circuit occasionally. He needs no compensation especially since the W destroys structures. Getting caught out on Ziggs should get you killed because of how much range he has same with xerath.

Captain Lito1 votes

His passive does way more damage to structures than his W, but you're right, poking isn't necessarily the meta at the moment and I suppose we should wait and see what happens when it becomes such.

C9 Scott Free 1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Essence Thief,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fulG4snK,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-10T18:02:37.118+0000)

His passive does way more damage to structures than his W, but you're right, poking isn't necessarily the meta at the moment and I suppose we should wait and see what happens when it becomes such.

Even with that being the case it depends on what stage of the game you are in. Sure his passive does more damage later game but the W alwasy kills the tower at 35% no matter what. Hell, I've seen Ziggs players just eat a tower shot and get a free tower since the update because of how it works.

Captain Lito1 votes

Good point, maybe it's just because I've seen most Ziggs games go on past the 30 minute mark that I view passive as a better turret killer, you have a point though.

C9 Scott Free 2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Essence Thief,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fulG4snK,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-10T18:10:51.891+0000)

Good point, maybe it's just because I've seen most Ziggs games go on past the 30 minute mark that I view passive as a better turret killer, you have a point though.

And that's because of Ziggs other major power, stalling. The champion has some of the best stalling in the game so he can bomb one lane of minons with his ult while still defending mid and have his team take care of the other side lane no problem and get to that late game passive tower kill ziggs. If his team is winning then his W makes them win faster. He has a lot of power he just isnt what the meta is asking for at the moment. Considering the prevealnce of lane swaps in pro play I would genuinely be unsurprised if ziggs support popped up just for tower pressure.

Sahn Uzal3 votes

There are a bunch of champions with spElls on a 20+ seconds Cooldown, a few examples:

Gangplank W Khazix E Diana E - (26 / 24 / 22 / 20 / 18 just like Ziggs W actually) AurelionSol E Darius E Illaoi E

SwiftKitten881 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fulG4snK,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-07-10T17:41:38.238+0000)

There are a bunch of champions with spElls on a 20+ seconds Cooldown, a few examples:

Gangplank W Khazix E Diana E - (26 / 24 / 22 / 20 / 18 just like Ziggs W actually) AurelionSol E Darius E Illaoi E

good list, but the only other champ that has that long cooldown on an escape ability is Khazix , which resets once you hit lvl 11 and evolve it and get a kill or an assist. it also much more reliable than zigg's W as an escape and easier to use and it STILL has a shooter cooldown. and even then kha has to be close to his enemy to attack them and most of the time he uses his leap to jump IN

also.. ALL of those champs WANT to be close to their target to some degree darius and diana and to some degree iiloai all have the cooldown on the ability designed to bring the enemy CLOSER GP has his on a heal, sol, is kinda weird... most of effect is the passive form the E he cant even use the active unless he charges up the passive. idk sol is werid

ziggs NEVER wants to be close to his enemy.

Verdade8 votes

Son, you want reliable, low-CD escape/gap closer on a SIEGE MAGE?! Mobile siege mage would be insanely strong, if not outright overpowered, as he combines long-range, kiting, zone control, high damage and mobility to offset his squishiness. He would have literally 0 downsides

SwiftKitten882 votes

{quoted}

Son, you want reliable, low-CD escape/gap closer on a SIEGE MAGE?! Mobile siege mage would be insanely strong, if not outright overpowered, as he combines long-range, kiting, zone control, high damage and mobility to offset his squishiness. He would have literally 0 downsides

Azir does the same thing as ziggs and has crazy mobility, and nor mana issue Vladimir does the same thing as ziggs and is tanky and has crazy sustain and no mana costs at all Viktor has BETTER waveclear than zigs, a STUN and not just a slow, and his ultimate does about.. idk let me do the math

ziggs ulti does 400 damage +.73ap to the majority of the area takes 2 seconds to land at point blank range and although it IS long range takes 3.5 seconds to land at long range. during which time ANY champ in the game can WALK out of it it does 600 +1.1AP to enemies in the center

victor ulti does 250 +.5AP base plus 3 ticks of 350+.6 radius 325

so thats..1300?? plus lets keep the lower .5 ap

thats still DOUBLE zigg's ulti.. and as long as victor chases you... cant be escaped..

there isn't ANYTHING Ziggs can do that other "meta" mages cant do better and also have more advantages in other areas. i saw ONE ziggs in LCS, it lost... HORRIBLY

Wimbledofy6 votes

vlad does the same thing as ziggs???? Vlad's main source of damage is targeted and is very short range. Ziggs has one of the longest ranges in the game. Vlad has no tower taking abilities and is not good for pushing or poking. Ziggs has a passive that lets him do crazy damage to towers and has a tower execute.

Also your comparison of viktor and ziggs ult makes 0 sense. The damage of ziggs ult is instant and has a huge area. With viktor, most champs will only get hit by the first burst and maybe 1 tick, and it will not hit many champs. Ziggs also has safer waveclear than viktor because of his range. And since we are comparing ults and not taking range into account, then lets talk about tfs ult, its so bad it does 0 damage.

Verdade1 votes

Oh my sweet summer child. It was clear you have no idea when i read LCS...

Ziggs sucks because his kit is just mish-mash without any kind of synergy. In addition, his only reliable ability is, sadly, his passive.

Despite this, he's the best base defending champion in the game. Sure, Heimer and VK may be able to hold single lane better, but Ziggs has really powerful R that can be used as waveclear

TotalJerk1 votes

Ziggs actually sucks because when he's good his kit makes games drag out into next fucking week. Super long range safe waveclear means that he can often be too far away to dive while simultaneously blocking a push.

Verdade1 votes

Any siege mage can do this? Try sieging even in 4v1 situation against Vel'koz. Unless you have 1500+ gap closer assassin or very good flank, you aren't getting that turret. Minions will die faster than they can reach turret range, you can't try to poke him because he has superior range and damage. You can't try to tank turret because if you do, he just melts you with true damage. Xerath and Lux can do the same, less effectively but still.

Again, Ziggs' problem is his non-existent kit synergy. While Lux can Q->E->R you for most of your HP, VK can WER for all of your HP, even Xerath has very good burst when he's able to land E. Only Ziggs can't, as all of his abilities are somewhat easily avoided. Only thing that resembles combo is WE, a poor-man's Taliyah

TotalJerk1 votes

Vel'Koz' waveclear isn't remotely comparable to Ziggs' and Ziggs' range is longer.

Ziggs kit DOES have synergy. All of his spells make it that much harder for anyone to dive him.

  • Q means he can farm from an extremely safe distance
  • W can either wall out an attacker, self peel, or give himself an escape
  • E can either assist his waveclear or also be used to wall out attackers
  • R is another extremely long range waveclear spell

The only one that can be argued to have less synergy is his passive, but that's good for damaging towers and giving him a little extra damage to potentially aid in killing something that actually manages to successfully dive him, especially if he gets Lich Bane.

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