Does riot have short memory or something?

Giggling Granny · 2017-08-24T22:29:47.790Z

Grand Challenge (R) [New Effect] "The Movement Speed Bonus she gets from each Vital hit has it's duration doubled." ??You nerf Fiora MS because she was able to abuse the MS and chase down everyone and now you buff it? What?? Ivern Triggerseed (E) magic damage increased from 50/70/90/110/130 to 60/80/100/120/140 AP ratio on magic damage increased from 70% to 80% This ability got nerfed because it was stupid and pretty much overloaded...and now you buff it again? how about buff some of his other kit so he can be a skillful champion and not a Janna V2? how about that?? Jarvan IV Golden Aegis (W) base shield lowered from 65/90/115/140/165 to 60/85/110/135/160 bonus shield per champion lowered from 2/2.5/3/3.5/4% to 2/2.25/2.5/2.75/3% You nerf shield value and buff per champion bonus...and now you nerf both? What??? i know J4 is picked in LCS but not because of his shield... Ryze Rune Prison (W) AP increased from 20% to 60%??? This is just weird....this is just a wrong buff...but i read that there is a rework coming again for him (Mini one) so i guess we wait to see more? because you people nerf that skill because of how easy is to use it...point and click CC.... So what the deal here? does riot forget what they nerf and why and then 2 patches later they buff it back? what next?? And btw where is the Xin zhao Mini rework? its supposed to be on pbe soon

YGY818Aug 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fuEk8jeh,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-08-25T02:22:00.953+0000)

We think the Fiora nerfs did harm. If it was correct to nerf her at all, it should've been a simple damage or base stats tweak. Given the dramatic meta shift immediately after the nerf, and given we were shipping Bramble Vest, it probably wasn't correct to even do that much. This only isn't a total revert because we think we made some small game design gains on not giving the movement speed up front on the R - if this doesn't pan out, we'll likely just do the revert of the nerfs.

The Ivern nerf was made when his itemization looked quite different. He's doing approximately the kinds of things we expect and he could use a little power, so a tap up here is appropriate. Trying to keep it relatively small, though.

Jarvan isn't powerful for just one thing - it's how much damage while how tanky. We don't want to see his kill threat go down, particularly not while the meta's still jungle tanks, so we're tapping down the other side of the equation instead. This should still be a net buff as long as he's putting gold into defensive items, relative to before we touched him in patch 7.7.

Ryze has been horrible for a long time; we're looking for a buff that might get him some spot Worlds play and doesn't do a ton otherwise. We think we need to a pretty meaningful tune-up (we are NOT planning any kind of rework), but it's too risky for pre-Worlds; hoping to ship something between Worlds and preseason.

Can you compare Jarvan and Vi? Idk, but Vi seems to be tanky and strong as well...

RiotRiot AxesAug 25, 201718 votes

They have some similar properties, but Jarvan's more comfortable jumping into the center of an enemy team and Vi's more dependent on being able to single someone out, plus Jarvan thrives better with tank stuff while Vi's dps itemization needs are bigger. That adds up to Jarvan being mostly just stronger right now, though Vi can at least compete in more disorganized settings.

VekknaAug 25, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fuEk8jeh,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2017-08-25T03:18:02.253+0000)

They have some similar properties, but Jarvan's more comfortable jumping into the center of an enemy team and Vi's more dependent on being able to single someone out, plus Jarvan thrives better with tank stuff while Vi's dps itemization needs are bigger. That adds up to Jarvan being mostly just stronger right now, though Vi can at least compete in more disorganized settings.

Why not change J4's W to work more like Leona's W? The shield nerf is obviously targeted at assassin J4 because his stats are off-the-charts broken right now. If W gave the base shield on activation and the slow and bonus shield after a delay, J4 would have to build tanky enough to survive the delay.

As it is right now, the shield nerf isn't going to change much. Assassin J4 is still going to be able to delete any squishy within 1450 units with the only counterplay being Flash.

When a hybrid assassin-tank hyper-diver is at 55%+ win rates with high-AD lifesteal builds, what sort of result do you expect from such a miniscule nerf?

inuitmailmanAug 25, 20174 votes

"Some spot worlds play" why?... why does Ryze have to be in worlds? Why not a champ that's never been or is rare anyway?

WiegrafOfValorAug 25, 201712 votes

This will all backfire because you're not considering the fact that those picks can't deal right now with the overloaded ADCs, but when you buff Ivern and Fiora like that, once ADCs get their fixes maybe in pre-season together with the new runes, they will continue to abuse those same buffs you're giving them now, and we will have another thread like that telling you the same thing I'm telling you now.

When you have a major problem that is affecting the meta, you need to address this first, to create a even ground, them after the dust settle you can look at those "under performing" champions and see if they still need buffs.

Looking for something to buff, how about fixing immobile melee fighters? They are out of the meta, have you play Udyr in the last 8 patches? And poor Tahm, give him his old HP% value on his passive already.

VelvetCrotchAug 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

This will all backfire because you're not considering the fact that those picks can't deal right now with the overloaded ADCs, but when you buff Ivern and Fiora like that, once ADCs get their fixes maybe in pre-season together with the new runes, they will continue to abuse those same buffs you're giving them now, and we will have another thread like that telling you the same thing I'm telling you now.

When you have a major problem that is affecting the meta, you need to address this first, to create a even ground, them after the dust settle you can look at those "under performing" champions and see if they still need buffs.

Looking for something to buff, how about fixing immobile melee fighters? They are out of the meta, have you play Udyr in the last 8 patches? And poor Tahm, give him his old HP% value on his passive already.

Agreed. Except tahm buffs.

BlåbæretAug 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

This will all backfire because you're not considering the fact that those picks can't deal right now with the overloaded ADCs, but when you buff Ivern and Fiora like that, once ADCs get their fixes maybe in pre-season together with the new runes, they will continue to abuse those same buffs you're giving them now, and we will have another thread like that telling you the same thing I'm telling you now.

When you have a major problem that is affecting the meta, you need to address this first, to create a even ground, them after the dust settle you can look at those "under performing" champions and see if they still need buffs.

Looking for something to buff, how about fixing immobile melee fighters? They are out of the meta, have you play Udyr in the last 8 patches? And poor Tahm, give him his old HP% value on his passive already.

Fiora never should've gotten nerfs. You can't balance a game on what "may happen" in the future. You balance for here and now. If these champs become an issue after the hopefully coming ADC nerfs then Riot will nerf them.

Downvoted and moving on.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 25, 20173 votes

Fiora did need a power shift. Passive MS on her R didn't fit well at all with the idea of a high-skill duelist.

AzteryzAug 25, 20171 votes

is this the extent to the ryze tweaks meddler mentioned earlier?

and if not could you give some insight into what you might have in mind? meddler said it would be akin to the shen changes that happened earlier this year where you shift strengths and weakness as opposed to functionality

RiotRiot AxesAug 25, 201712 votes

That's a different set of changes slated for after Worlds, still early in development though.

HellioningAug 25, 201773 votes

Fiora's ult giving her move speed was the dumbest thing? If she needs to be buffed, buff her in a way that requires skill, not 'I ult, now you can't escape.'

CithriaCAug 25, 201716 votes

I think the nerf worked in some way, I used to use fioras ult on someone when I was running away from them just for the speed.

HeimerLmaoAug 25, 20178 votes

Or just used ult to catch up as Fiora, now you actually need to get in range to proc vitals to get the MS.

Snake PrinceAug 25, 201719 votes

Even DOPA said " flora trash tier after ults nerfs " , you are just biased bc it is frustrating for you .

Sun Wu RyuumokuAug 25, 20176 votes

seems like its better to follow this bronze board than a random rank 1 chall*[zombie-brand-mindblown]*

buPPDrmXEOAug 25, 20175 votes

Riot should balance the game around DOPA and ignore other 40+ million players

FearlessCreatorAug 25, 201713 votes

Yes because 40+ million players are stuck in bronze.

gubigubiAug 25, 20178 votes

40 million people aren't complaining about Fiora. Stop trying to make your cause sound bigger than it is.

TheHappyReaperzAug 25, 20172 votes

It buffed the MS you get for proccing the vitals, it doesn't change her movespeed, when she just ults.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 25, 20173 votes

Her ult just gained more MS on proc. It's not back to the crap that was constant passive MS.

Iota ThetaAug 25, 20173 votes

Currently, they are. She won't get the MS just from ulting a target, but she has to actually proc the vitals to get it now.

CarnicoreAug 25, 20173 votes

I think the issue is that if you can counter her ultimate effortlessly just by walking away from her, then that's too unreliable.

HellioningAug 25, 20173 votes

So should Illaoi get a ms boost when she ults?

Meeks011Aug 25, 20172 votes

Well her W cooldown is reduced significantly and it's a short-range dash, so it basically already does.

LeBlanc RoseAug 26, 20171 votes

[deleted]

ImaSpacePotatoAug 26, 20171 votes

Illaoi W

LeBlanc RoseAug 26, 20171 votes

Soz. I'm actually fking retarded

CithriaCAug 25, 20173 votes

Part of Illaoi's theme is her tentacles being in 1 place and the fact that you can move to dodge them(most of the time unsuccessfully). She even gets spellvamp to bait players into attacking her instead of running and waiting out her ult, while fiora is about dancing around popping vitals, even when both of you are moving, which is why she gets movement speed. You can stick to a wall and deny your vital (This really tilts fiora players, bonus if you can kill her while sticking to a wall, double bonus if it's the last ult vital).

SkiasAug 25, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fuEk8jeh,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-08-25T02:22:00.953+0000)

We think the Fiora nerfs did harm. If it was correct to nerf her at all, it should've been a simple damage or base stats tweak. Given the dramatic meta shift immediately after the nerf, and given we were shipping Bramble Vest, it probably wasn't correct to even do that much. This only isn't a total revert because we think we made some small game design gains on not giving the movement speed up front on the R - if this doesn't pan out, we'll likely just do the revert of the nerfs.

The Ivern nerf was made when his itemization looked quite different. He's doing approximately the kinds of things we expect and he could use a little power, so a tap up here is appropriate. Trying to keep it relatively small, though.

Jarvan isn't powerful for just one thing - it's how much damage while how tanky. We don't want to see his kill threat go down, particularly not while the meta's still jungle tanks, so we're tapping down the other side of the equation instead. This should still be a net buff as long as he's putting gold into defensive items, relative to before we touched him in patch 7.7.

Ryze has been horrible for a long time; we're looking for a buff that might get him some spot Worlds play and doesn't do a ton otherwise. We think we need to a pretty meaningful tune-up (we are NOT planning any kind of rework), but it's too risky for pre-Worlds; hoping to ship something between Worlds and preseason.

I disagree with the Ivern buff. That champion is absolutely frustrating to jungle against. He just walks up to your buffs and instant smites them. Even if you strike him, he can mash his right click until the camp goes off and takes it anyways. That's provided you get in range in time. He needs fundamental changes. Soon. His counterplay doesn't function well at all.

KloqdqAug 25, 20174 votes

Ivern has been in a pretty trash spot since they beat him over the head. The buff is just increasing his damage, not his utility or clear speed/health. Honestly he needed something especially after they dropped his W range from 1600 to 800 which was MASSIVE.

LyingOnLineAug 25, 20171 votes

{quoted} Honestly he needed something especially after they dropped his W range from 1600 to 800.

Yeah. More nerfs.

KloqdqAug 26, 20171 votes

Far from it. The best Iverns can make stuff happen but once support items see their eventually nerfs, he will be ryze trash tier.

nargnargnargAug 25, 20172 votes

That's b/c you're bad and don't know how to counter jg him. He can only clear when his smite is up, or after a delayed period of time. This leaves his camps up to be easily counterjungled.

My Waifu VanillaAug 26, 20171 votes

Here's how you play against Ivern after his last nerfs. You start on the opposite side he did....and then you just kill him at his other buff because he has like 100 hp at that point because nerfed the living hell out of his passive and made it cost like 30% of his health at the early levels.

Support PositionAug 25, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fuEk8jeh,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-08-25T02:22:00.953+0000)

We think the Fiora nerfs did harm. If it was correct to nerf her at all, it should've been a simple damage or base stats tweak. Given the dramatic meta shift immediately after the nerf, and given we were shipping Bramble Vest, it probably wasn't correct to even do that much. This only isn't a total revert because we think we made some small game design gains on not giving the movement speed up front on the R - if this doesn't pan out, we'll likely just do the revert of the nerfs.

The Ivern nerf was made when his itemization looked quite different. He's doing approximately the kinds of things we expect and he could use a little power, so a tap up here is appropriate. Trying to keep it relatively small, though.

Jarvan isn't powerful for just one thing - it's how much damage while how tanky. We don't want to see his kill threat go down, particularly not while the meta's still jungle tanks, so we're tapping down the other side of the equation instead. This should still be a net buff as long as he's putting gold into defensive items, relative to before we touched him in patch 7.7.

Ryze has been horrible for a long time; we're looking for a buff that might get him some spot Worlds play and doesn't do a ton otherwise. We think we need to a pretty meaningful tune-up (we are NOT planning any kind of rework), but it's too risky for pre-Worlds; hoping to ship something between Worlds and preseason.

STOP talking about worlds. STOP. How many people are in worlds? In pro teams even?

Awesome. Now how many people play fucking league?

Yea. Stop fucking going around the minority. Fucking ridiculous.

ArthastheicekingAug 25, 20172 votes

So true, and in my opinion those "worlds patch" are useless because pros are just going to pick/ban the same 25 champs

GayFluffyUnicornAug 25, 20172 votes

And you know why? Because all year and especially before worlds riot doesn't change what THEY want to see or what THEY think is balanced. They change what THE PROS WANT because MUH COMPETITIVE INTEGRITY. Where are the old moscow 5 cheese picks. Old CLG breaking the meta and WINNING. Doesn't exist anymore, the game is entirely balanced around what the pros want to play.

DauntAug 25, 20175 votes

Not sure why this is getting downvoted, every word about Fiora is true. She was hit in the wrong spot (if she even needed to get hit) instead of reverting some of the buffs that she got in the past (vital damage or q damage). It's incredibly harder to pull off all 4 vitals with the ult after the nerf versus any subpar player who uses their brain.

GayFluffyUnicornAug 25, 20172 votes

Saying "if she even needed to get hit" shows that riot has zero clue about their own fucking champions. A supposedly high skill cap champion with a 51% winrate who scales into a lategame monster but is a LANEBULLY to 50% of her matchups while the rest of the matchups are pure skill dependent NEEDS TO BE HIT.

DauntAug 25, 20176 votes

You forgot about the meta shift that came after. She's not really a lane bully, she's really fragile until she gets lifesteal items and especially in the early levels of the game. Any time she wants to poke you down she will just get minion aggro by using her Q.

I'm also not sure why you're complaining about her. Your most 3 played champions are GP, Swain and Jayce, all champs that do pretty well vs her.

Also, i think you forgot about how carry top laners work. A lot of matchups are skill matchups to a carry top lane champion and as long as they play it out right it should justify their success.

CarnicoreAug 25, 20171 votes

We think the Fiora nerfs did harm. If it was correct to nerf her at all, it should've been a simple damage or base stats tweak. Given the dramatic meta shift immediately after the nerf, and given we were shipping Bramble Vest, it probably wasn't correct to even do that much. This only isn't a total revert because we think we made some small game design gains on not giving the movement speed up front on the R - if this doesn't pan out, we'll likely just do the revert of the nerfs.

Meanwhile Master Yi never got his Highlander nerf reverted. Even though Devourer was removed maybe 2 patches later. He's been a mess ever since then, so often his ulti will run out before he can get a reset and he's forced to retreat because he can't fight without it.

Meeks011Aug 25, 20172 votes

Let's see...

Meditate AP ratio increased to 25% from 15%.
Wuju Style actve bonus true damage increased to 14/23/32/41/50 from 12/19/26/33/40.
Alpha Strike grants vision on bounces and has a minimum untargetability of 0.25 seconds.
If Double Strike's first hit kills a unit, the second now searched from a new target within 300 range.
Channeling Meditate pauses the durations of Wuju Style and Highlander, and also gives one stack of Double Strike per second.

Does riot have short memory or something?

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