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Decided to try my hand at a Cass rework in the style of what Stashu and Scruffy are attempting

Kingsgrave··3 votes·304 views

@RiotScruffy @RiotStashu

Wondering what you forum goers will think of it. Any criticism is welcome and appreciated.

**The general idea is to try and incorporate all of her abilities into one central theme. Her old self only used 60% of her kit and her new self just uses the other 40% and still ignores the entirety of it. I attempt to try and cement her as the "spammy poisony snakey magey character-y". I played a lot of 3s and I always saw her as this super annoying snake cunt that just spammed twin fangs at me after poisoning me. I also sorta fused ideas from Pokemon related to Toxic and Venoshock. **

Passive: Cass abilities deal (DAMAGE) over 2 seconds and heal Cass for (HEAL) over 2 seconds. This increases each time Cass poisons an enemy. Stacks increased by 2 each time Twin Fang hits a target. This stacks indefinitely.

Cass Q and W apply a stack of poison that deals damage over 2 seconds stacking up to 10 times (said poison damage is determined by passive and stacks. the base damages for each are higher than on live and are standardized) Cass E is now a line skillshot that hits weak points of those who are poisoned, refreshing stacks of the poison and granting brief vision and grievous wounds of the target Cass R explodes all the Poison on the enemies, freezing them in stone and dealing damage based on their amount of poison stacks

Cass Q: 40 Mana. 10 second CD that is reduced by 2 seconds, stacking up to 3 times, each time she lands it on a poisoned enemy. Deals damage based on missing health.

Cass W: 60 Mana. 14 second CD. Expands from 125 to 450 over 5 seconds. Denies vision of those in the cloud of poison and massively slows them while in it. Also deals damage based on maximum health.

Cass E: 30 Mana. .5 second CD. Damage dealt and mana cost increases for each consecutive Twin Fang usage in the last 5 seconds and each stack of poison on the target. Applies a 1 second grievous wounds and true sight to the target. Deals damage based on current health.

Cass R: 100 Mana. 120 second CD. Deals base magic damage + bonus true damage for each stack of poison on the targets and stuns all of them, turning them into stone, for 1.5 seconds

8 Comments

Kingsgrave1 votes

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SmokingPuffin1 votes

Really long cooldowns on Q and W are not desirable. Creates timing windows you can drive a truck through where Cass is helpless.

Your stacking damage mechanic is interesting, but it seems like it takes too long to build stacks to be practical for teamfighting.

W having both vision block and massive slow probably means it's broken. Better than many ultimates.

I think R would feel cooler if the stun scaled some per poison stack. Maybe 1.0 seconds + 0.1s per stack or something.

I'm interested in hearing your rationale for having buttons that scale damage based on current, maximum, and missing health. I'm not seeing how they flow together with the expected gameplay, and it's a lot of kit complexity.

FiendOfOne1 votes

I think R would feel cooler if the stun scaled some per poison stack. Maybe 1.0 seconds + 0.1s per stack or something.

I can't think of any way to make this reasonably work. Q and W both add 1 stack, E adds two. That means in one trade at level 3, you can pump 4 stacks. By the time you hit level 6, you probably have a minimum of 20 stacks. When you start looking at 100 stacks mid game, or in a truly ridiculously long game, a 350+stack Cassiopeia (under this setup)... I mean, level 6 3 seconds. Mid game 11 seconds, start getting into 30 second+ stuns on an entire TEAM? I can't think of any way to make a stun work where it's interesting and has gameplay value if it starts scaling, at least not without making it OPPRESSIVELY weak in the early game.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

I think R would feel cooler if the stun scaled some per poison stack. Maybe 1.0 seconds + 0.1s per stack or something.

I can't think of any way to make this reasonably work. Q and W both add 1 stack, E adds two. That means in one trade at level 3, you can pump 4 stacks. By the time you hit level 6, you probably have a minimum of 20 stacks. When you start looking at 100 stacks mid game, or in a truly ridiculously long game, a 350+stack Cassiopeia (under this setup)... I mean, level 6 3 seconds. Mid game 11 seconds, start getting into 30 second+ stuns on an entire TEAM? I can't think of any way to make a stun work where it's interesting and has gameplay value if it starts scaling, at least not without making it OPPRESSIVELY weak in the early game.

Clearly I've misunderstood something. From:

Cass Q and W apply a stack of poison that deals damage over 2 seconds stacking up to 10 times

I figured that your stack mechanic worked something like Varus blight or Kennen marks. If your stacks never expire, I'll have to reevaluate the entire kit.

If this is the case, I think your proposed E is probably just broken. The requirement to land a Q or W before E spam is what makes E spam an allowable design. Or am I still misunderstanding the design?

Kingsgrave1 votes

I think R would feel cooler if the stun scaled some per poison stack. Maybe 1.0 seconds + 0.1s per stack or something.

I can't think of any way to make this reasonably work. Q and W both add 1 stack, E adds two. That means in one trade at level 3, you can pump 4 stacks. By the time you hit level 6, you probably have a minimum of 20 stacks. When you start looking at 100 stacks mid game, or in a truly ridiculously long game, a 350+stack Cassiopeia (under this setup)... I mean, level 6 3 seconds. Mid game 11 seconds, start getting into 30 second+ stuns on an entire TEAM? I can't think of any way to make a stun work where it's interesting and has gameplay value if it starts scaling, at least not without making it OPPRESSIVELY weak in the early game.

Clearly I've misunderstood something. From:

Cass Q and W apply a stack of poison that deals damage over 2 seconds stacking up to 10 times

I figured that your stack mechanic worked something like Varus blight or Kennen marks. If your stacks never expire, I'll have to reevaluate the entire kit.

If this is the case, I think your proposed E is probably just broken. The requirement to land a Q or W before E spam is what makes E spam an allowable design. Or am I still misunderstanding the design?

Basically E does little to no damage unless you use it a fuck ton W basically deals almost no damage but provides a butt ton of utility Q is mostly used as your main source of damage

Stacks do not last forever, E just keeps them from expiring. E is no longer single target, since its a skillshot, so you can miss it.

FiendOfOne1 votes

I think R would feel cooler if the stun scaled some per poison stack. Maybe 1.0 seconds + 0.1s per stack or something.

I can't think of any way to make this reasonably work. Q and W both add 1 stack, E adds two. That means in one trade at level 3, you can pump 4 stacks. By the time you hit level 6, you probably have a minimum of 20 stacks. When you start looking at 100 stacks mid game, or in a truly ridiculously long game, a 350+stack Cassiopeia (under this setup)... I mean, level 6 3 seconds. Mid game 11 seconds, start getting into 30 second+ stuns on an entire TEAM? I can't think of any way to make a stun work where it's interesting and has gameplay value if it starts scaling, at least not without making it OPPRESSIVELY weak in the early game.

Clearly I've misunderstood something. From:

Cass Q and W apply a stack of poison that deals damage over 2 seconds stacking up to 10 times

I figured that your stack mechanic worked something like Varus blight or Kennen marks. If your stacks never expire, I'll have to reevaluate the entire kit.

If this is the case, I think your proposed E is probably just broken. The requirement to land a Q or W before E spam is what makes E spam an allowable design. Or am I still misunderstanding the design?

Basically E does little to no damage unless you use it a fuck ton W basically deals almost no damage but provides a butt ton of utility Q is mostly used as your main source of damage

Stacks do not last forever, E just keeps them from expiring. E is no longer single target, since its a skillshot, so you can miss it.

Hrm. I was going off of the passive.

Passive: Cass abilities deal (DAMAGE) over 2 seconds and heal Cass for (HEAL) over 2 seconds. This increases each time Cass poisons an enemy. Stacks increased by 2 each time Twin Fang hits a target. This stacks indefinitely.

Kingsgrave1 votes

I think R would feel cooler if the stun scaled some per poison stack. Maybe 1.0 seconds + 0.1s per stack or something.

I can't think of any way to make this reasonably work. Q and W both add 1 stack, E adds two. That means in one trade at level 3, you can pump 4 stacks. By the time you hit level 6, you probably have a minimum of 20 stacks. When you start looking at 100 stacks mid game, or in a truly ridiculously long game, a 350+stack Cassiopeia (under this setup)... I mean, level 6 3 seconds. Mid game 11 seconds, start getting into 30 second+ stuns on an entire TEAM? I can't think of any way to make a stun work where it's interesting and has gameplay value if it starts scaling, at least not without making it OPPRESSIVELY weak in the early game.

Clearly I've misunderstood something. From:

Cass Q and W apply a stack of poison that deals damage over 2 seconds stacking up to 10 times

I figured that your stack mechanic worked something like Varus blight or Kennen marks. If your stacks never expire, I'll have to reevaluate the entire kit.

If this is the case, I think your proposed E is probably just broken. The requirement to land a Q or W before E spam is what makes E spam an allowable design. Or am I still misunderstanding the design?

Basically E does little to no damage unless you use it a fuck ton W basically deals almost no damage but provides a butt ton of utility Q is mostly used as your main source of damage

Stacks do not last forever, E just keeps them from expiring. E is no longer single target, since its a skillshot, so you can miss it.

Hrm. I was going off of the passive.

Passive: Cass abilities deal (DAMAGE) over 2 seconds and heal Cass for (HEAL) over 2 seconds. This increases each time Cass poisons an enemy. Stacks increased by 2 each time Twin Fang hits a target. This stacks indefinitely.

Oh thats my bad then. The stacks in the passive refers to your indefinitely scaling passive not the poison stacks on the enemy.

Serpents Embrace1 votes

At this point, I'm so, so sick of idiotic suggestions for Cassiopeia.

Your changes fix nothing, and introduce so many stupid, tiny stacks the thought of it is driving me batty. Cassiopeia was a functional champion before her rework. She had a place, she was good against certain champions, worse off against others, had clear strengths and weaknesses and a power curve that prevented her early laning power from becoming too unstoppable late game. Suggestions just like yours just validate Stashu's ego that there needs to be some sort of change from her original kit, despite the fact that it's a better mage kit than he could ever hope to make with his weak understanding of the class as a whole.

Nothing in the rework is coherent as a kit, in a vacuum or in context to her identity, and nothing in it is worth salvaging. If they *really wanted to rework Cass, the only realistic and professional thing to do is to revert the rework on Live, start over on the drawing board and try again with all the feedback they've received from this catastrophe. You know, feedback being the thing they neglected to get their first go-round.

But the thing is, they don't really care about Cassiopeia's kit. Her shoddy rework was rushed to Live because of that awful Shurima update, so it could be "look at all the 'work' we did for this update for Ascension" even though none of the non-Ascension work was worth anything. Three sentence lore pieces? Really? A half-baked kit rework that abandoned the core fantasy of the champion it was for, regardless of how many times recently they've said that's their main focus during kit reworks?

If they could erase patch 4.16 and all its changes from Live it would fix so much.

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