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Doran Shield. An item that needs to be addressed.

Tusutaki··58 votes·22,116 views

> Stats > +80 health > +6 health regen per 5 seconds > Passive > Unique: Blocks 8 damage from single target attacks and spells from champions.

Doran's Shield. An early defensive version of the Doran's items. However, it absolutely fails in the defensive apartment. From other starting items like Flask, Cloth, or Ruby + pots, there is absolutely no reason to buy a Doran's Shield. Even on manaless champions. Flask + 3 pots gives you 810 effective in-lane health and 180 mana. Ruby + 2 gives you 450 health with a faster power spike of obtaining Sunfire for example. Cloth + 5 gives you 750 + 15 more armor and also allows you to power spike faster. Doran's Shield + 1? Measly 230 health with 1.2hp per sec. You might be saying to yourself "But the passive! It blocks 8 damage!"

This is one of the biggest issues I want to bring up. The passive, blocking only single target attacks and spells, blocking 8 damage. That doesnt sound so bad right? Well considering the fact that it blocks 8 damage BEFORE resistances apply. Lets put it like this for example.

100 ad vs 100 armor 100 armor = 50% dmg reduction 50 damage is taken

VS

100 ad vs 100 armor + Doran's Shield passive 100 - 8 = 92 50% of 92 is 46 46 Damage is taken

Out of all of the Doran's items, Shield is the only one that loses it's value the longer the game goes. Or the more you gain armor to put it simply. Whereas Blade's 3% lifesteal can be stacked with other lifesteal items and can be used in conjunction with other AD items and Ring has a flat Mana Regen and it's passive, Shield fails in comparison. Also note that Shield also blocks only autos and targeted damage, meaning AOE damage like Pantheon's E gets a free ticket.

So why has this item been ignored for so long? Note that this item didnt even block targeted spell damage for the longest item either. Shield has been a glorified noob trap item for over a year. So what needs to be fixed then? Simple. Have it block 8 damage AFTER resistances and maybe half of that from AOE attacks. Make it actually worth spending 440 gold. Otherwise, there's absolutely no reason to buy it. Not when there are other, better options around.

73 Comments

Laraso22 votes

My problem with Doran's Shield is that it's too expensive - you only get one health pot. I find it's easier to fall behind early on if you start with the shield because you typically have to back before your lane opponent. All they'd have to do to satisfy me is drop the price to be on par with Doran's Ring.

Tusutaki7 votes

I too wouldnt have a problem with that. It would make things a tad bit easier but it doesnt discount the fact that the measly health regen and its passive is near worthless. Even if its the same cost as the Ring I still wouldnt get it. Not when I can get Ruby or Cloth and I can power spike faster off of them.

What was supposed to be an early anti harass item is just a shield made of paper.

BigPooStorm2 votes

{quoted}

My problem with Doran's Shield is that it's too expensive - you only get one health pot. I find it's easier to fall behind early on if you start with the shield because you typically have to back before your lane opponent. All they'd have to do to satisfy me is drop the price to be on par with Doran's Ring.

So much this. When I go against AD top laners, I find it way better to get cloth 5. Not only is it more efficient build wise, I have 4 extra pots for sustain.

RiotMeddler17 votes

We've been thinking recently about doing a light overhaul on some defensive items (think a smaller version of the AP item changes coming in 5.13). Doran's Shield is one of the items we'd be looking at if so. A possible direction for that we've been considering is buffing the Unique Passive so it gains extra effectiveness against ranged auto attacks. That's very much at the idea stage though, rather than something we've committed to. One of the things we particularly want to avoid there, and so really need to test for, is the possibility of Doran's Shield becoming the dominant support buy again. When we've seen that in the past it's resulted in really narrow support picks (huge amount of Leona/Thresh, not much else) and that's something we don't want to reintroduce.

SaltyKracka5 votes

{quoted}

We've been thinking recently about doing a light overhaul on some defensive items (think a smaller version of the AP item changes coming in 5.13). Doran's Shield is one of the items we'd be looking at if so. A possible direction for that we've been considering is buffing the Unique Passive so it gains extra effectiveness against ranged auto attacks. That's very much at the idea stage though, rather than something we've committed to. One of the things we particularly want to avoid there, and so really need to test for, is the possibility of Doran's Shield becoming the dominant support buy again. When we've seen that in the past it's resulted in really narrow support picks (huge amount of Leona/Thresh, not much else) and that's something we don't want to reintroduce.

IIRC the only time Doran's has been more popular on tank supports than gold items was when the support gold items were rather weak.

RiotMeddler8 votes

{quoted}

IIRC the only time Doran's has been more popular on tank supports than gold items was when the support gold items were rather weak.

Yeah, it's definitely possible we've got more room to buff DShield at this point. Do want to try and validate that though.

Lichblade1 votes

An idea I had to make Doran shield a bit restricted so its less attractive on supports is to maybe make a similar simple mechanic from Doran Rings or Blade.

Since Doran rings has a passive that grants mana on a unit that you killed, it ensures that only a solo laner that is allowed to last hit can use it. Same goes for Doran's blade since its lifesteal so you have to keep AAing minions to heal up.

PrinceOfWinners1 votes

{quoted}

An idea I had to make Doran shield a bit restricted so its less attractive on supports is to maybe make a similar simple mechanic from Doran Rings or Blade.

Since Doran rings has a passive that grants mana on a unit that you killed, it ensures that only a solo laner that is allowed to last hit can use it. Same goes for Doran's blade since its lifesteal so you have to keep AAing minions to heal up.

or you can make Dorans Shield build into Heart of the Mountain that way it can be an option for supports and top laners can go the opposite build route

B Variegatus3 votes

Doran's items are designed to be very gold efficient without being slot efficient. Having it build into something defeats the purpose of the item.

Rueian1 votes

Maybe have it build a tiny passive shield per minion killed that doesn't regenerate, you just 'gain x temporary HP when you kill a minion' This allows you to build up damage mitigation when your opponent isn't nearby as well as forces your opponent to consider making trades often with you so the shield doesn't get big.

Maybe also have it shred the shield off when you go back to the fountain

On the other hand, you could have it give burst Shielding 'gain x shield that lasts for y seconds when you kill a minion' Making playing a defensive character going in for a last hit not so easily punished.

cheezeoflegends2 votes

You could always scale it back if needed.

Also I do hope you guys plan to give offensive AD items an overhaul similar to the AP one. Nearly as much as AP needed it AD could use more build variety, smoother build progression, some price adjustments, and more things that build out of Brutalizer (which only builds into one thing other than a jungle enchantment). Plus AP has TONS more good bruiser items than AD does.

Lucifer3 votes

{quoted}

We've been thinking recently about doing a light overhaul on some defensive items (think a smaller version of the AP item changes coming in 5.13). Doran's Shield is one of the items we'd be looking at if so. A possible direction for that we've been considering is buffing the Unique Passive so it gains extra effectiveness against ranged auto attacks. That's very much at the idea stage though, rather than something we've committed to. One of the things we particularly want to avoid there, and so really need to test for, is the possibility of Doran's Shield becoming the dominant support buy again. When we've seen that in the past it's resulted in really narrow support picks (huge amount of Leona/Thresh, not much else) and that's something we don't want to reintroduce.

Thresh isn't the most picked support in the game since his release? I don't think doran's shield has anything to do with the problem of Thresh always being picked bot lane.

HighKingOfSkyrim2 votes

My idea (all numbers are just examples no real suggestions)

+80 health +4hp/5sec

Unique passiv: Gives a 40 points strong shield, that regenerates 20 shieldpoints/5secs, while not in combat for 4 seconds. While the shield is at full strength you gain + 4hp/5secs.

So basically if you are not in combat you gain 40 hp really fast and then regenrate hp a bit quicker. If you are in combat (and your shield is down) you gain almost nothing.

This could be called runic blessing ;)

Would be a bit complex for a dorans item though...

HighKingOfSkyrim1 votes

Idea behind this:

vs ranged... you would have an option to go in and take a lasthit without having to pop a pot, while the ranged dude maybe has to go into a more aggresive stance to keep you of your farm...

vs melee... you can try to always trade when your shield is up...

kuhzoo2 votes

For supports that would mean melee supports could pretty much harass for free though. Go in, smack the adc a bit, walk out for the shield to regen, repeat.

If you gained the regen or shield through minion kills, that might be different.

Jeddy0171 votes

{quoted}

A possible direction for that we've been considering is buffing the Unique Passive so it gains extra effectiveness against ranged auto attacks.

That would be very useful against Gnar lanes when I'm playing a melee champ like Garen if that goes through.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Well it's pretty obvious that min/maxers will find the "Best in Slot", use it and then every1 will blindly follow it. No matter the balance discrepancy (meaning that even a 0.001% advantage in 60 minutes of a single match will decide the meta).

From some1 who likes to play Mordekaiser and Gnar I wouldn't mind for defensive items to have some kind of utility rather than simple stats that helps if combined with 1-2 offensive items.

Right now the only synergy we have is AP/SpellVamp items plus Spirit Visage in terms of defence+offence while I believe that maybe a transition of utilities from offensive items to defensive items would mean more freedom for defensive/offensive hybrid characters.

Yfrappefort1 votes

{quoted}

We've been thinking recently about doing a light overhaul on some defensive items (think a smaller version of the AP item changes coming in 5.13). Doran's Shield is one of the items we'd be looking at if so. A possible direction for that we've been considering is buffing the Unique Passive so it gains extra effectiveness against ranged auto attacks. That's very much at the idea stage though, rather than something we've committed to. One of the things we particularly want to avoid there, and so really need to test for, is the possibility of Doran's Shield becoming the dominant support buy again. When we've seen that in the past it's resulted in really narrow support picks (huge amount of Leona/Thresh, not much else) and that's something we don't want to reintroduce.

Mmm, the support pool is currently already pretty narrow, especially in LCS. It's always Thresh, Alistar or Nautilus. Buffing Doran's shield to make it at least gold efficient compared to other Doran's would be a good start. Honestly, I think just dropping the price to 400g, thus allowing us to buy 2 potions, would be good enough. No need for some extreme buffs.

TiberiusAudley2 votes

If the idea is to make it better for laners but not really for supports, affecting the damage reduction seems like the wrong route, because no matter what it would be more (cost) efficient in a lane versus 2 opponents than versus 1 opponent, as it reduces damage for every attack, so it's reducing more damage overall.

In order to make it more efficient in a 1v1 lane, making it generate an actual shield seems like a better route.

Could use the Banshee's Veil of "after taking no damage from champions for x time" you generate a shield that blocks damage from champions but not minions (inner tower mechanic), which caps at x (low)% of your max health.

Since it's a shield that only generates when not taking damage from champions, it's less efficient versus 2 opponents (who can pop it and keep it down for longer, especially if you're a short range / melee support like Leona / Thresh / Amumu), and stronger versus 1 opponent (who has less opportunity to duel you).

PotatoPrincesss1 votes

I'm not sure giving tanks any buffs is a good idea... they're in a good spot right now, even with nerfed cinderhulk.

Meep Man1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure giving tanks any buffs is a good idea... they're in a good spot right now, even with nerfed cinderhulk.

I dont think you have it right. JUNGLER Tanks dont need any buffs, which is those who get Cinderhulk. LANE Tanks are ok for the most part.

Sire Hippington1 votes

I think buffing the passive damage reduce will most likely end up with it becomeing popular on supports again. If you want it to be a valid choice for toplaners, it would either have to offer some sustain supports don't have acces to(like a bit health for last hits ), or offer some manasustain(main reason to get flask/dorans ring over the shield on many champs), or offer some aditional damage vs minons to help with llasthitting/pushing.

Overall, the more agressive option not only give you similar power for trades/all ins, they also improve your farming and your kill potential especially together with a jungler. If the raw damage reduction/sustain is buffed enough to make it valid despite not adding kill potential, farming or mansustain, then it will very likely be a return of the tanky doran's shield support-meta.

p.s. flat damage reduction should also always be applyed after %reduction(resistances), just like flat pen is applyed after %pen, so flat reduction doesn't fall off as horrible a bit later in the game.

Shrek Luigi1 votes

Leona pls do it :)))

Tusutaki1 votes

{quoted}

We've been thinking recently about doing a light overhaul on some defensive items (think a smaller version of the AP item changes coming in 5.13). Doran's Shield is one of the items we'd be looking at if so. A possible direction for that we've been considering is buffing the Unique Passive so it gains extra effectiveness against ranged auto attacks. That's very much at the idea stage though, rather than something we've committed to. One of the things we particularly want to avoid there, and so really need to test for, is the possibility of Doran's Shield becoming the dominant support buy again. When we've seen that in the past it's resulted in really narrow support picks (huge amount of Leona/Thresh, not much else) and that's something we don't want to reintroduce.

Well considering a lot things have changed throughout the years from last time Dorans Shield was top pick. So if lets say Shield does give a buff from my described post, I do not think it would be a top item for supports as there are a lot of necessary items needs to rush first before they can deviate into their own personal build path.

Use the PBE to your advantage. See how it plays out instead of playing with "what ifs". I can bet you that a lot of players dont even know that it blocks before resistances is applied and when thats the case, we would've seen a lot more supports today with Shield. I just dont want to see people getting this noob trap of an item.

UPfreely3 votes

sheild is more of a counter pick these days, take it against darius or swain

SaltyKracka3 votes

Doesn't do shit against DoTs.

WeFlyNoLie6 votes

Actually it does, that's 8 damage off of each tick of Hemorrhage which may not seem like much, but at early levels it really cuts away his bleed damage.

SaltyKracka1 votes

Sure, it would just a lot of damage off of it if it affected it.

I'd need to see proof before I believe that it does.

Kingsgrave1 votes

{quoted}

Sure, it would just a lot of damage off of it if it affected it.

I'd need to see proof before I believe that it does.

Damage Over Time abilities (DoTs) are coded as Single Target spells for Spellvamp and Rylais, so they are also counted as such for Doran's Shield.

SaltyKracka1 votes

Assertions are nice. Proof is better.

Lichblade3 votes

Change the Health regen to 8 per second, and simplify the passive into Unyielding from the champion Mastery in defense.

Stats +80 health +6 HP/5 --> +8 HP/5 Passive Unique: Reduces all incoming damage from champions by 8.

There fixed.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

That might make it a tad too strong. That is all sources, and early game is where it makes and breaks the amount of damage you do, could easily put a tank ahead.

Kingsgrave1 votes

{quoted}

Change the Health regen to 8 per second, and simplify the passive into Unyielding from the champion Mastery in defense.

There fixed.

Uh

You just made it the must buy for every single Top laner. Why would you take anything else when you can just ignore all damage they deal?

It makes all users of it strong and makes all the ones who don't use it optimally unviable.

MasterOfTheOrder2 votes

Yes, but... Vladimir

SaltyKracka2 votes

Needs nerfs anyways.

TwitchInMyPants2 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but... Vladimir

Pretty much the only champ that'll buy it and get an advantage. Extra AP, Sustain, HP, and damage reduction is a great bundle for a character that needs to passively farm.

Tusutaki1 votes

You're better off just buying boots or even tome and pots as you get more benefits from both. Where boots allow for better mobility and harass and tome provides more AP, little less health but better healing also along with buying your spell vamp that much faster.

BakugoBestBoy2 votes

The thing is, bruisers don't care about whether they take sword or shield. Whichever item has better stats, they'll just buy it. Buffing it won't create more options it will simply rule out anyone buying dblade who isn't an ADC.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a393 votes

[{quoted}](name=Use Your Bankai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6aH6jozL,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-07-01T12:38:02.110+0000)

The thing is, bruisers don't care about whether they take sword or shield. Whichever item has better stats, they'll just buy it. Buffing it won't create more options it will simply rule out anyone buying dblade who isn't an ADC.

The thing is, tanks and AP bruisers exist.

BakugoBestBoy2 votes

This has literally nothing to do with my comment. If you can't read then try your luck elsewhere. The point is, right now, no one buys dshield. Not even tanks or ap bruisers. Buffing it so they can have a better starting item won't fix that. It will just make everyone start with that item, and the stronger AD lane bullies will still make better use of it than they ever will.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a392 votes

[{quoted}](name=Use Your Bankai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6aH6jozL,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2015-07-01T17:16:36.440+0000)

This has literally nothing to do with my comment. If you can't read then try your luck elsewhere. The point is, right now, no one buys dshield. Not even tanks or ap bruisers. Buffing it so they can have a better starting item won't fix that. It will just make everyone start with that item, and the stronger AD lane bullies will still make better use of it than they ever will.

I did read your post, but you failed to do it for my post.

"Not even tanks or ap bruisers. " That's why we have to make Doran's shield exclusively useful for them, but not for ADs. ADs already have Doran's Blade as an excellent choice.

Your point was buffing doran's shield would benefit ADC/AD Bruisers. My point was tanks and AP bruisers aren't negatively affected by the buff of Doran's shield, while ADs are. ADs mostly deal damage by AA. Introducing a stronger Doran's shield that mitigates AA damage would be an additional option to reduce their early game domination. It only benefits ADs if they are facing another ADs opponent, but this will give tanks and AP bruisers an alternative starting item.

Please don't get offended because you didn't fully understand my point. I didn't really think I would have to explain in details for your laziness to think.

BakugoBestBoy2 votes

Ok. No longer upset. Please explain, how, you would buff dshield in a way that would make it a "tanky" starter item, that would in no way benefit Riven Renekton Katarina but would be great for DrMundo Zac Maokai

Tusutaki4 votes

Because 2 out of 3 of those champions scales with actual ad and ap? You're grasping at straws here.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a392 votes

[{quoted}](name=Use Your Bankai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6aH6jozL,comment-id=00090000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-01T19:32:09.129+0000)

Ok. No longer upset. Please explain, how, you would buff dshield in a way that would make it a "tanky" starter item, that would in no way benefit Riven Renekton Katarina but would be great for DrMundo Zac Maokai

Do those three former ones get doran's blade? You get the idea.

Dengeden1 votes

If I ever see a mana-less champion buy flask.. It's like seeing them with biscuits.

Iron IV dude1 votes

Had Kennen Support with biscuits once... i wasnt sure if that works ...

Tusutaki6 votes

There isn't wrong with biscuits though on manaless champs. An immediate 20hp recovery is pretty handy.

Syndrarella1 votes

[deleted]

SaltyKracka1 votes

Sold 25 minutes into the game

Is an entirely irrelevant benchmark. It's a lane item you are supposed to buy in the early game in order to survive your early lane. And it's shit at it.

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