So that Warrior change that got removed, why didn't they do that for Magus instead of Runeglaive?

Kingsgrave·Jul 11, 2015·56 votes·2,978 views

On PBE ONLY: Warrior lost the armor pen but dealt 10% of the physical damage you did over 3 seconds as true damage

Bring back Magus

Lower AP to 60 from 80

Lower CDR to 10% from 20%

10% of Magic damage dealt as True Damage over 3 seconds and that amount is restored as Mana if used against Monsters. This damage is halved against Non Monsters.

AP Jungle item helps all Mage junglers instead of just Diana/Eve without making AP Ez OP af

52 Comments

TotalJerkJul 11, 201516 votes

As if Nidalee really needs her spears dealing true damage. Any mage that can jungle and has a poke would be broken as hell.

GhostOfShrimpmasJul 11, 20157 votes

Not...really. Assuming Nidalee's spear hit you for 800 damage, that would only be 80 true damage over 3 seconds.

Salt Miner 49 ErJul 11, 20155 votes

I actually kind of like this idea because honestly it's getting pretty silly how it feels like unless you're melee you're forbidden from jungling.

Jungle Brand and Karthus were a thing at one point, some time ago. Hell, even Jungle Twitch was a thing.

MohawkBirdJul 11, 20154 votes

[deleted]

SinlaireJul 11, 20156 votes

Riot also nerfed the tether range so now you cant drag monster camps all over the map with ranged champs trying to avoid taking damage.

OperationDEEZ1Jul 11, 20154 votes

TF Jungle saw play in pro play around the beginning of Season 5, needless to say, they immediately nerfed it.

AbyssphereJul 11, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monkey Trouble,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fkWEOwUN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-11T14:44:13.457+0000)

I actually kind of like this idea because honestly it's getting pretty silly how it feels like unless you're melee you're forbidden from jungling.

Jungle Brand and Karthus were a thing at one point, some time ago. Hell, even Jungle Twitch was a thing.

Ranged champions have a ton of benefits in lane and there's always one lane in which having a ranged character is mandatory (ADC). I don't really see the problem with a jungler being melee being mandatory given the ADC has to be ranged, and it only makes sense for melee characters to be stronger in the jungle considering all ranged characters are based around being able to avoid direct confrontation with minions and jungling goes directly against this balancing.

I don't get why jungle Brand and Twitch should be a thing. They just have nothing that makes them suited to it. I don't get why everyone is so attached to the concept of EVERYONE being a viable jungler - you don't see people complaining about Evelynn not being a viable ADC, because they accept that she's just not suited to it and that's fine. Certain champions are better suited to certain roles and ranged ones are tuned to be strong in a laning scenario but not a jungle one. That's fine.

junglerboy16Jul 11, 20153 votes

I like it, but that true damage burn is a lot stronger on spells than on AAs since Spells deal chunks of damage and would apply massive DoT with this, where an AD usually applies it in small consistent bursts where the DoT often ends up overlapping a lot.

Vellich0rJul 11, 20151 votes

It just would've been bad on high damage single target spells like pantheon Q. Or skarner Q, AoE true damage burn OP.

TusutakiJul 11, 20153 votes

{quoted}

On PBE ONLY: Warrior lost the armor pen but dealt 10% of the physical damage you did over 3 seconds as true damage

Im sorry sorry isnt that weaker than Elder Lizard's passive? Since it says "dealt" meaning after resistances is applied.

The LovelessJul 12, 20151 votes

Yep, and it was only 10/6% both times they had it up...that's 10/6 TOTAL damage for every 100 damage dealt OVER THREE SECONDS. That change didn't do anything for dps junglers. I say just give Warrior 50-60 total AD and it's decent (but not great) to take with you to late game.

LaowPingJul 11, 20151 votes

I like this idea. I mean, not to sure how many ap junglers exist outside of Diana/Eve, but I still like this idea. One caveat is that many mages might take down jungle camps quickly later so the mana gain would have to be instant.

KingsgraveJul 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I like this idea. I mean, not to sure how many ap junglers exist outside of Diana/Eve, but I still like this idea. One caveat is that many mages might take down jungle camps quickly later so the mana gain would have to be instant.

It would create more AP Junglers by allowing the following the ability to Jungle:

Swain Malzahar Karma Karthus Fiddlesticks Galio Morgana Zyra

LaowPingJul 11, 20152 votes

Fiddle can already jungler and without a jungle item.

The rest would have so much trouble on early clears before they get the enchantment.

KingsgraveJul 11, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Fiddle can already jungler and without a jungle item.

The rest would have so much trouble on early clears before they get the enchantment.

Sejuani has bad clears til Cinderhulk.

WW is useless until 6.

Both are still viable Junglers.

I don't see your point.

khorneyJul 11, 20151 votes

Lol true ww is just weak jungler all game with out ult he can't do anything

I Miss CannonJul 11, 20152 votes

Wat Sejuani only has a bad first clear, after having some points in W and having Trailblazers she clears pretty fast.

kile147Jul 11, 20151 votes

WW is a fine jungler, he's just a bad ganker (which isn't all there is to jungling).

Bears Dont CareJul 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Sejuani has bad clears til Cinderhulk.

WW is useless until 6.

Both are still viable Junglers.

I don't see your point.

Warwick is viable?

LaowPingJul 12, 20151 votes

Sejuani is tanky enough to sustain through her first clear while stil having decent damage over time to multiple jungle creeps from her abilities. Galeo will be ok to a degree but I'm not sure if he does enough sustain damage to kill the jungle creeps. Warick being useless till 6 has nothing to do with my previous comment.

SorgklaanJul 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Fiddle can already jungler and without a jungle item.

The rest would have so much trouble on early clears before they get the enchantment.

Brand actually clears quite nice right now currently. IMO atleast.

khorneyJul 11, 20154 votes

Zyra can clear decent how ever she is so slow

LittleBlastJul 11, 20151 votes

Zyra is actually a really good jungler atm!

ULTRAF0RCEJul 11, 20151 votes

ad malz is a much better jungler

TotalJerkJul 11, 20151 votes

Fiddles has no problem IN the jungle, it's when the action starts that he struggles. He's entirely reliant on the ult-over-walls cheese, and if the opponents can deny him that, he becomes nothing more than a fear bot. It really says something that Vlad is FotM and Fiddle still isn't being picked against him.

khorneyJul 11, 20151 votes

How is rune glaive better then lich bane less ap less ratio less damage

Count ZubatJul 11, 201516 votes

And 1k gold less. The damage difference between Lich Bane and Runeglaive is noticeable only late game when you have full build, and you can do a lot with that 1k gold saved in mid game.

StealWolverineJul 11, 20155 votes

spellblade passive is also aoe. and it has 10% cdr

missinggraveJul 11, 20151 votes

Plus smite for objectives and chilling for chase/kiting, skirmishers for better dueling, and trailblazer for sieging and potentially sustain.

Tis a nice dayJul 11, 20151 votes

I like this idea.

SolideusJul 11, 20151 votes

Perhaps because that doesn't add anything to the way you play, as opposed to runeglaive.

What Is SmiteJul 11, 20151 votes

You Realize what those Warrior Changes will do right? It means when my Jungle Fiora hits over 500AD your carries will be taking ignite damage from just my Q-AA-Q-AA combo

Vellich0rJul 11, 20151 votes

Q-aa-Q-aa happens in about 2 or 3 seconds, which means you would be dealing like, 150 or so true damage over 5 seconds. I mean I could calculate it, but I am too lazy, however DOT effects refresh themselves as opposed to stacking.

What Is SmiteJul 12, 20151 votes

Fiora's Default combo is actually done in less than 2-3 seconds, it's done in that time frame if you just let the animations play out, however most Fiora Players should be able to get that combo done in 1-1.5s depending if you get CC'ed along the way

Vellich0rJul 12, 20151 votes

which is why i gave that so you would get the high end of the true damage. If the true damage DoT works like 98% of traditional DoT effects you would be getting even less true damage if the time span was shorter. Each ability would just refresh the ability with a different amount of damage depending on the damage of the ability.

What Is SmiteJul 12, 20151 votes

Right well hopefully I still get to murder people as I am doing now with the current Warrior Enchant

GavranJul 12, 20151 votes

Pretty sure it stacked, though. Not like other DoTs.

Vellich0rJul 12, 20151 votes

If that's the case i can see why it was pulled. an assassin could take it just for the burn and suddenly a kit that can burst you for 2k bursts you for 2.2 K which is partially unblock able. Talon would have a field day.

Jungle Lux GodJul 11, 20151 votes

This is either hilariously broken or hilariously useless.

True damage nuke based on magic damage dealt is really strong on a a lot of mages, but is beyond broken on a lot of poke mages. Poke mages aren't widely viable in the jungle, but you won't see them in the jngle because this is going to be abused by poke mages everywhere to a point Ezreal never did with Runeglaive.

At the same time look at the stats. It trades the sheen proc, mana, and a MASSIVE chunk of its mana regeneration for 10 AP and the passive. If this is supposed to be good, it's going to be good for the passive, and the passive is going to be abused by laners.

As a hilarious side note, this will actually get procced on every auto attack on jungle monsters because the jungler passive deals magic damage to monsters.

AmarulenceJul 11, 20151 votes

Problem with that is the new Ezreal changes. They basically make him reliant on Runeglaive. AP Ezreal and Runeglaive Ezreal are two completely different builds, and the only difference between them is Runeglaive Ezreal gets his power spike earlier, but he doesn't scale as well into the late game (until he switches Runeglaive out for Lich Bane, but then he has an almost useless Summoner Spell).

If they removed Runeglaive now, they'd have to restore Ezreal to form pre-Runeglaive, otherwise AP Ezreal would be a thing of the past (kind of like AP Rengar), and not to mention, SivHD would be out of a job.

I believe they should seek to limit some junglers that can make massive advantage of Runeglaive (not just 'using' it, as that's the point of the item, but the ones that make it overpowered), but also add Magus back. Sure we would have 2 AP Enchantments, but so what? It's not like it'll really effect us in the long run. No one can build two Enchantments.

Anyway, just my two cents.

KoKobotoJul 11, 20151 votes

Hey this is a awesome idea nice!

Jeddy017Jul 11, 20151 votes

I say it's because they realized that they keep opening a jungle balance can of worms each time they change the jungle items this season. Juggernaut to Cinderhulk?Instantly shifted the meta & people taking it Top. Magus to Runeglaive?It's now in a questionable place for AP junglers & motherfucking RG Ezreal (people taking it mid). Devourer to Sated Devourer?You all know.

They must feel they got enough to deal with in terms on jungle balance right now.They'll likely still look at giving Warrior something unique as well.Maybe the PBE change will come back later.

I GANK LANESJul 12, 20151 votes

Wait what? It got removed?

Silents429Jul 12, 20151 votes

What other AP junglers are there.

Because Runeglaive works on Eve and Diana,

Zair UmbrasJul 12, 20151 votes

Because the Runeglaive right now is amazing. The runeglaive on the PBE though is utter garbage. It's so bad it's not even worth defending. I loved Ruenglaive as an idea. An AoE Lichbane. That was amazing. Now it's just an extra weak lichbane that AoE's on MONSTERS. There's nothing unique about it.

VenomousNecroJul 12, 20151 votes

Why the hell doesn't Riot just change it to the old ap jungle item? Make it were it starts with 60 ap then you stack it with each jungle camp and then you get it to 80 ap. The good thing is that it's balanced so that any ap jungler can use it.

Crowe StalkerJul 12, 20151 votes

This has the exact same issue as item 3726 did before it was reworked and even now still suffers from: AP Junglers are forced to get the item and then keep farming their jungle instead of ganking because the item has very little inherent power. It has 50 Base AP and you had to kill fifteen big monsters to get it to 80 AP. The item wasn't even efficient when you bought it, you had to farm like hell to make it worth buying.

Let me put it like this: Spirit of the Ancient Golem gave Tank Junglers bonus stats for building health like they normally would anyway along with 200 health (that's the equivalent of a item 1028 plus 6 Flat Health Seals) 20 armor ( item 1029 plus one and 2/3 of a flat armor seal at the time, now five armor seals) and 10% CDR. Thanks to the Bonus Health, those who got Ancient Golem scaled better into the late game as the item became more and more efficient. Not only that, the item came with built-in wards. It was literally the perfect defensive/utility item on a tanky jungler.

Spirit of the Elder Lizard gave you 30 AD (a item 1037 and five AD Marks) 10% CDR and the passive which deals true damage over time. While certainly not Gold Efficient, it gave you all of the stats up-front so you could then immediately go gank a lane. Because AD is more efficient than AP (due to how AD also increases your auto attack damage in addition to abilities if you play an AD Champion) a Jungler with Spirit of the Elder Lizard had better duelling power than one with Spectral Wraith in a straight-up fight.

Wriggle's Lantern gave you 12 AD, 30% Attack Speed, a strong passive against monsters, increased gold income that you could literally free farm with unlike the old Conservation mechanic on the Elder items, gave you free wards, and eventually evolved into Feral Flare which let you scale harder as the game went on. While the AD was certainly negligible, the bonus attack speed and damage bonus against monsters essentially gave you a item 3072 when fighting monsters. This was before you hit your Feral Flare.

Spectral Wraith was garbage, anyone who says otherwise either didn't play it enough at the time or didn't actually play around with the other Jungle Items. I'd sooner get on both knees and praise Runeglaive than see that garbage item return.

Kuroi86Jul 12, 20151 votes

So that Warrior change that got removed, why didn't they do that for Magus instead of Runeglaive?

Because Runeglaive is actually viable and a pretty good item and the change to warrior would have been pointless.

ZzEslIolZQJul 13, 20151 votes

Cause dirtcrawler wants you to play his fav archetype only, AP assassins, in every lane and jungle. Shit on WoW and now he's here to shit on LoL. Inb4 he shits on YoY.