She is that kind of champion that needs a total rework because her gameplay is just infuriating to deal with. She is one of the most annoying mids to deal with. Her win ratio is bad? Good. So is urgot one ( he is still waiting a rework....)
Chespin201347 votesOf all things that didn't needed to be buffed was her E. Its already pretty fast and the range too break is so damn long not even flash is far enough to break it.
Pale Pirate4 votesActually it's really hard to hit.
Except if you are in the other guys' face, of course.
JQKAndrei16 votesWhy is it hard?
She has enough tools to get in the other guy's face, get out, get back in and back out.
The Deckowner11 votesw e w combo guarentee land.
DarkSunSovereign8 votesAnd deals 0 dmg, has short range, and costs a ton of mana
The Deckowner5 voteslb's w deals tons of dmg? (@phreak)
DarkSunSovereign1 votes85 / 125 / 165 / 205 / 245 (+ 60% AP) isn't what I call "tons of dmg" for a long cd spell. And if her going WEW doesn't result in her immediately dying to you, it means it's kinda early in the game. She'll have 100 ap at most. You will have at least 30 magic resist, so 225*100/130= 173 dmg. Wow. Retaliate maybe? If you can cc her before E procs the second time, she won't be able to proc QR which means free kill for you, unless she flashes. Which is worth either way.
JacctheInsomniac3 votes[deleted]
DarkSunSovereign1 votesExcept that it applies this damage TWICE, with EITHER detonation procing her Q damage.
40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 (+ 50% AP) *2= 80/130/180/230/280 (+100%AP) damage. I was talking about her W before,since TheDeckowner said WEW combo was "Impossible to miss" and that her W deals tons of dmg.And as I said, if you buy boots and walk backwards OR CC her return point, she can't QR you.
Not to mention the sheer amount of tools that Leblanc has to escape and engage.
If you were able to follow a debate, you would notice the subject at hand was a WEW combo, which leaves her without an escape bar her passive and flash (btw did u know that if u click on her passive clone, it has no items? U can tell which is the real one like that)
Even if she's caught out without her escapes up (something that should never happen)
She needs her W to engage at all unless you're dumb and don't buy boots or sth.
her passive is ALWAYS there to ensure that she has the extra seconds she needs.
You mean extra second? Because last time I checked, it was 1 second of invisibility, disregarding the clone due to it being useless when clicked on.
Because a champion with as much damage, CC, and mobility needs another way to ensure she's never shut down.
-"SO MUCH CC": Most midlaners have at least one form of CC. I'll make a list of midlaners with 0 cc whatsoever.
I may have forgotten some, I just quickly browsed the champion list.
LB only has two cc, and using an ulted E isn't usually the best idea.
-Mobility: Okay yes she's very mobile. Oh wait, that's her niche! And before you say "aiuoeehrguihsdaouvhoearuoe she can W into my whole team and then press W again and get out", her W has pretty short range. If your cc is a skillshot, just aim it so it will hit both the return point and her at the same time. And if there would be minions between you and her return point (thus enabling her to W back instantly and get away with it), you misspositioned. Also, unless she's fed or u r low hp, she can't kill you if she uses an ulted W, which cuts her mobility in half.
-Damage: Let's calculate her damage and compare it to other mids' damage shall we?
Q: 55 / 80 / 105 / 130 / 155 (+ 40% AP)x2= 110/160/210/260/310 (+80%AP)
W: 85 / 125 / 165 / 205 / 245 (+ 60% AP)
E: 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 (+ 50% AP) x2= 80/130/180/230/280 (+100%AP)
Ulted Q and E: 100 / 200 / 300 (+ 60% AP) *2= 200/400/600(+120% ap)
Ulted W: 150 / 300 / 450 (+ 90% AP)
Total ( QRWE): 475/815/1155/1295/1435 (+360% AP)
Of course, this is a best case scenario where she hits everything and her opponent doesn't heal at all.
Let's see other champions' damage (I'm going to pick simple champions because jeez I don't want moar weird math).
Q: 80 / 115 / 150 / 185 / 220 (+ 80% AP)
W: 70 / 115 / 160 / 205 / 250 (+ 85% AP)
E: 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 (+ 20% AP) (Assuming only one auto).
R: 175 / 300 / 425 (+ 80% AP) + 20 / 30 / 40 (+ 20% AP) (1 proc, subpar)= 195/330/465 (+100% AP)
Total: 365/590/775/905/995 (+285% AP)
Annie deals less damage than LB. However it must be noted that annie is entirely point-and-click, is much tankier and has more utility. If her point-and-click kit dealt as much damage as leblanc's... there'd be 0 counterplay.
Also, annie's Q has a very low CD. That probably counts for something.
Passive: 20-250 (80% AP) -> Average damage = 135 -> Let's say 20/135/250 (80% AP)
Q: 60 / 95 / 130 / 165 / 200 (+ 70% AP)
W: 22 / 34 / 46 / 58 / 70 (+ 20% AP) x3= 66/102/138/174/210 (+60% AP)
R: 100/160/220 (+ 60% AP) x2.5= 250/400/550 (60% AP)
We multiply by 2.5 because sometimes Diana waits for another Q before finishing
the combo. I didn't multiply the Q damage by 1.5 because that would seriously warp the numbers.
Total: 396/732/1018/1139/1210 (360% AP)
Diana's damage is much closer to LeBlanc's in late game and slightly less far from it in early game. This is because LeBlanc is an early game champion and Diana is more of a late game teamfight godess. The damage deficit when compared to LeBlanc even in late game can be explained by Diana's instant and longer range damage and higher tankyness and utility.
I would add other examples but I can't be bothered. LeBlanc has high damage and mobility, but the high damage is compensated by low utility and extreme squishyness.
JacctheInsomniac1 votes[deleted]
DarkSunSovereign1 votesLeblanc's dashes AND escape, are instant, both tied to the same ability, AND deal damage.
(I would like to point out that them being tied to the same ability is a weak point, not a strong one).
Name one other champion who has that tool.
There are many unique abilities in the game, this does not make them OP. Also, the damage isn't instant: the dash has a travel time. Many melee champs can just buy boots and walk backwards. Zed, Kat, etc.
- Same issue as Master Yi, but has an extremely low range, and overall Akali is sub par thanks to her toxic kit.
Is the only other champ who has the same tools as leblanc. And he is even MORE toxic than she is.
As I said before, there are many unique abilities in the game. That does not make one OP.
You can't zone her from her creeps or outdamage her in lane.
She's a lane bully, duh. Don't die, start grouping, CC her, and laugh at her.
Her dashes mean you can't all in her because she always has an escape.
Unless she uses it to push or harass you. If she just holds onto it, she cant do anything lol.
You can't roam because she can follow you, roam better, or push better.
First two I agree with, but she can't push better unless she uses WR, in which case you can fake a roam, bait her WR, then all in.
You can't call for a gank because again, her dashes mean any half decent Leblanc always has an escape.
Tell your stupid jungler to buy a lens and to only show up when her W has been used on you/the minions. Then she will be forced to use R to escape or to flash. In the first scenario, you have 40 seconds to abuse her weakness.
You can't push the lane so she misses creeps because she'll call for a gank and kill you.
Ward, hold onto any escapes/CC you have. Or just push from your max range, and stay far back when you've used your skills. If she starts moving towards you even though your creeps are at her tower, HMMMM I WONDER IF THERES ANYONE IN THAT BUSH.
Her Tether applies damage twice, and has a leash range longer than her Dash. Not even flash gets you out of it.
It's common knowledge that the hitbox on it is glitched. Abuse it, it means it's easier to be blocked by minions (but yh riot should adjust the visuals).
If anything this ability belongs on
As she has no mobility tools save for her half second speed buff to ensure her target is snared. It also doesn't slow either. That's also on a different ability. So? If Karma is trying to snare someone, it's because she's trying to all-in (I've yet to see a Karma using it to harass). It's usually considered a bad idea to all-in with an ability on cooldown, huh?
Her dash is INSTANT and gives her a return.
From the LoL wiki: A dash is a type of champion ability in League of Legends that causes the caster to move to a specified destination, direction or to a specified unit by moving them through the space between the caster's location and the point, maximum range of the ability or the target unit, respectively. I don't know what you mean when you say her dash is instant. If you mean it has no cast time, I'd like to point out that most dashes don't. Because if you mean her dash makes her instantly reach her objective, you'd be wrong. That's a blink.
She can escape anything. Lane phase or lategame.
Unless W is on CD.
Chasing her one way means she can just teleport back the other,
Position close to the return, throw CC at her. If she doesn't dodge it, she dies. If she jukes it with the return, press Ctrl+3 and kill her.
and not chasing her means she escapes.
Maybe kill her before you actally need to chase her. She has 1791 HP at level 18, 2007 if she has Scaling HP runes. A lot of LeBlancs like taking offensive blues (either CDR or moar dmg), which means she will have 30-55 (with athene) MR. She seriously just blows up. Also, Abyssal scepter. It cuts her damage down significantly unless she buys void staff, and if she does, she will have spent an item slot on dealing damage to you alone, which means she still won't have MR, which means you'll deal true damage to her.
Meanwhile in all chat they #jukes as if the champion doesn't give them everything they need. Fizz's Press E to Outplay syndrome.
I don't see how this is relevant to the debate.
She can use it to escape, and then the same ability, same cooldown to re-engage.
Wouldn't it be more toxic if she could disengage with one ability and then instantly re-engage with a different one? Lol.
Also, could you avoid just pointing out all her strengths while disregarding her weaknesses? It's called cherry picking and it's a logical fallacy. I can make any champion you name sound like something from Dota 2 just by doing the same as you.
JacctheInsomniac1 votes[deleted]
DarkSunSovereign1 votesYou act like this is not a counter to literally EVERY champion in League.
URGH I'm so tired of this argument. Ever tried CCing an olaf? An Irelia? Any tank? If you did, it probably resulted in them laughing at you in all chat.
Furthermore, the fact that most crowd control is a skillshot, or has some nuance to land makes "just CC her" a massive fucking chore as she has a fucking stupid amount of tools to DODGE said skillshots.
You actually act like her SINGLE dash (YES, if she uses ult to copy W SHE CANT KILL SHIT) is really hard to predict or something. If she wants to kill you, she'll use it two ways: On top of you, or diagonally. If she uses it on top of you, remember that and use said skillshot CC straight at her because you know how much she sucks. Also, if she uses it on top of you, it's because she was able to (IE, was within 600 units of you. What exactly were you/ was your team doing?) If she's not within that laughable range, you can just throw any skillshot at her. Unless she uses W, which costs a fuckton of mana and wont reach you because of the short range, she will take the damage. If she uses W, she just wasted an important cooldown. Wait for your skillshot to be back up and all-in. If she thinks she's really cool and tricky and wants to be like Faker senpai, and is always using W to the side and killing you, just buy Zhonyas. Why? Well, without her W, she has two options to kill you: QRE, EQR, or QER. I guess she could also RQE if she's fed, but she had to reach that point. Countering QRE: you have a massive amount of time while she casts QR to prepare to dodge her E. If she lands it anyway, Zhonyas immediatly. If you think you'll have the time, try CCing her. She'll probably return W to get outta there, but she won't be around to kill you (because you DID buy abyssal scepter [Or Banshee's Veil/ Mercurial scimitar / Maw of Malmortius if you aren't ap], right?). Countering QER: Even easier, she has two chains and you only have to dodge one to survive. Unless her team is ready to jump on you (Read: Ask for peel), of course. And even if she manages to hit both, you have plenty of time to cc her to force her to return W or die, which means the leash range will break. You also will have plenty of time to Zhonyas if need be. You probably will never meet a LeBlanc who does this, for obvious reasons. Countering EQR: It can be hard to dodge her E right after she jumps mainly due to the surprise of it, but it's also a bit trickier to land. I never actually considered this until I played LeBlanc (Yeah, guess what? Instead of complaining about a champion I've never played, I try to play them before saying anything). If she hits it, however, she has to sit around for a full 1.5 seconds while she waits for it to proc her QR, which is PLENTY of time for her to get hit by your whole team, die, etc or for you to be hit by skillshots.
The amount of effort EVERYONE has to put into winning, surviving, or shutting down a Leblanc is FAR greater than the effort Leblanc has to put into getting fed.
I'm aware I shouldn't be using the ad hominem fallacy here, but you really can't appreciate the effort it takes for the LeBlanc to get fed if op.gg says you haven't played her. You might actually learn something.
Not to mention that if she's REALLY bad she can build Zonhyas, a totally balanced item that simeultaneously augments her damage and defenses while granting her MORE time for cooldowns and to abuse her broken fucking escape tools.
All AP champions (which are a bunch) can buy zhonyas.
But also, it's not OP at all. Let's calculate its efficiency.
3500 gold for 100 AP, 45 armor and an active.
We know AP is priced at 435/20=21,75 gold per point and armor is priced at 300/15= 20 gold per point.
Thus, 100 AP= 2175 gold and 45 armor = 900 gold. That equals 3075 gold, which leaves the active at 425 gold worth. That's and 87.86% cost efficiency, not to mention that the build path sucks. First you get these two things 
that don't do shit and just take up inventory space, then you get 
this thing that doesn't do anything until you get 30 more CS which is hard with LeBlanc, then that just sits in your inventory until you get the 1250 gold you need to buy 
, and then you need another 1050 gold to finally get a useful item. Compare that to items like 
that are just spoon-fed in terms of build path.
Leblanc. Press W to outplay.
You can virtually say that about any champion. For example, I could say Syndra is "Press R to win". We both know that is not true, but to someone who does not play Syndra, it sure looks like it.
Shonjl1 votesYou make it sound like CC doesn't work on any of them champs. Olaf is forced to ult if it is CC that can kill him, that doesn't sound like it did bad if it forced him to ult, most likely away from you.
Even when I play Nasus or Garen with 5k hp I still don't enjoy a Morg Q when their team can bash my face in right after.
DarkSunSovereign1 votesTrue, Olaf is forced to ult, but he loses ult. LeBlanc is forced to use W either to return or to escape, which makes her lose a kill window. And before you say "bbbbbut she can use W to DODGE my cc WHILE getting closer", well, same with Master Yi, it's you fucking up rather than them dodging.
And well, LB likes it even less than Nasus or Garen. And a Morg Q is an EXTREMELY devastating skillshot.
Llanite1 votesYou're not supposed to break the tether without a dash
Troll for Trump3 votesNo; imagine a lower CD W, a stronger Q(increase in both first and second proc), increase in AP scaling on recasts of her R; she's in a bad spot, the small buff is fine.
She is that kind of champion that needs a total rework because her gameplay is just infuriating to deal with.
So is Yas and that won't happen.
Shifune16 votesI love seeing people complain about LeBlanc because I personally find her ridiculously easy to deal with.
TDubH3 votesOut of curiosity, what champs do you play?
Odesza6 votesOne of my favorite champs to bring into leblanc is veigar. Just survive the early laning phase and passively farm under tower if you can. Once you get some stacks though she's pretty squishy and easy to burst down since she can't dash through your stun.
Dengeden8 votesShe needs a rework just because you need to respect her damage? The things you people come up with.
They're not even buffing her power, the buffs only made sure that you couldn't dance around her skill shots with 0 mobility/MS.
JAGMAG8 votesdid you watch the EU LCS yesterday? were leblanc didnt even full combo and would 3/4 health the enemy top laner
iamleburk14 votesforgetting to mention the enemy top laner was a 0/8 lissandra with barely any tank items.
TDubH1 votesFull stack roa though, that counts for a smigeon.
iamleburk5 votesbarely. Soaz was playing like shit that game, he got counterpicked top (problem in draft imo. should have flexed the lissandra mid once they saw the olaf), and he tilted like always.
OG also tried to go with a poke/kite composition when Tahm and Lulu. So Origen had no tank and the Leblanc did well, big surprise huh? And we'll concentrate on the leblanc rather than the fed Olaf or the near perfect Zac play.
JAGMAG1 votesyes that zac and olaf play was amazing the thing is the leblenc play wasn't even that good febivin kept missing his combos and jumping to the wrong place but he kept insta gibbing whoever she did mange to land a skill on
iamleburk4 votesNah leblanc was doing fine, when pros use leblanc it's more of a burst mage like lux rather than an assassin. Febi did his job in bursting the opponents.
JAGMAG1 voteswell still a lissandra with a ROA and she wasn't 0/8 till she died like 3 times in a row to Leblanc
iamleburk1 votesYea that is one tank item (i said barely) and the leblanc was fed. And for the record, in a pro game, going 0/3 is considered feeding. One death is huge, small leads are everything. So going 0/8, whether it be from leblanc roams or not, is absolutely terrible. OG messed up the draft, and then Soaz messed up the execution
JAGMAG2 votesstill either way she was one shoting people wile fucking up her combo the amount of damage she has with the amount of mobility she has is insane
iamleburk2 votesOkay but that's supposed to be her strength. She's also squishy af, pretty weak against tanks, dependent on roams and doesn't scale as well as the other meta mids. Also, waveclear mids really mess her up at that level because its hard for her to roam when they push you under your turret.
Did you see how Vitality dealt with the exact same comp? Leblanc isn't that insane atm, OG has just had horrible drafts lately. I also forgot to mention how they had no tank vs the high engage and burst on the FNC lineup. And then made the same mistake vs H2K
DropFill4 votesShe needs a rework just because you need to respect her damage? The things you people come up with.
They're not even buffing her power, the buffs only made sure that you couldn't dance around her skill shots with 0 mobility/MS.
No. She needs a rework because her kit doesn't allow her to be balanced. She is either OP or UP. And, she will ALWAYS be extremely annoying to play against, because of poor counterplay. ( She has no counterplay actually, just counterpick/counterbuild).
Dengeden5 votesWelcome to LoL, where everything is either OP, UP or redundant.
Oh and her low range and low wave clear leave no room for counterplay? Riiiiight. Must've been a fluke when I saw a Varus outtrade her in LPL yesterday.
iamleburk4 votesor the fact that she is hard countered by the extremely meta kassadin.
I Main Swain1 voteslast i checked, leblanc can instaclear a wave once she gets a couple full items. her range also isn't low when you take her mobility into account.
and that wasnt a fluke, it was just a leblanc who cant dodge
Llanite4 votesBy that logic, Nasus also has good wave clear.
Dengeden1 votesLast time I checked, she has to waste her ult to do that.
I didn't know it was even possible to dodge Varus spells at that range and with LB's pitiful wave clear. I guess I forgot that the fotm OP champions can dodge every skill shot in the game.
EDIT: She jumps into your face to do damage, that's low range in my book.
I Main Swain2 votesyou say waste her ult like it has a long cooldown
her waveclear is no worse than half the other mid laners in the game, dont act like its a huge exploitable weakness. and she actually can dodge skillshots better than most other champs because of her w, but that's not what i was saying. i was saying the only way she would have been consistently losing trades to a varus is by just never dodging his q.
jumping into your face to deal damage isnt low range. your actual ability range being low is low range.
Dengeden1 votes30s~ still means you can't use it on every wave.
"Half the mid laners"? Defuq? She has ONE AoE spell, that's rare to non-existent among mid laners. (Annie and Kassadin are counter matchups, Ryze and Swain are draintanks, Karma is probably as good as my last game seemed to indicate)
No, the only way for Varus to lose these trades is if LB delivers her combo whilst simultaneously clearing most of the minions. He can trade with AAs, clear with Piercing Arrow and Hail of Arrows is hard to dodge at close range.
Her actual ability range is still no more than her AA range. (Max range chains are never gonna hit)
Shonjl1 votesReally? Are you saying a 40-25 second ult is long? Crying out loud I rarely play Lux and when her ult gets down to like 30 seconds, I spam the crap out of it due to how meaningless it means to not have it up since it will be within seconds again.
A lot of champs have normal abilities with that long of a cd, so please don't act like it is long.
Dengeden1 votesIn the sense that you can't clear every wave with it, yes it is.
Try using only Lux ult to push out minions, no matter the CD, you'll see what I mean.
Century Child7 votesGo ahead Riot, nerf her. Anyone who knows what they're doing with her will be able to stomp with her regardless. She's got a high skill ceiling, let that speak for itself. She doesn't need to be easy, she needs to be hard, so that people who love her can still play her and do well, and not any idiot can pick her up, Q+R+W and win the match.
Kaioko7 votesShe's strong but I don't find her that overwhelming to deal with. It's not like they gave her a buff to her damage anyways.
DropFill2 votesShe's strong but I don't find her that overwhelming to deal with. It's not like they gave her a buff to her damage anyways.
She already 100-0 you. No need to buff this
Kaioko6 votesShe's never been able to 100-0 me honestly because I would never let her use her W as a form of damage therefore forcing her to use it for positioning.