What is the point of a mage?

Onotori·Apr 4, 2018·2 votes·469 views

I just honestly don't know why I bother playing them.

ADCs burst much harder and have higher sustained damage, plus they have lifesteal out the ass and no cooldowns, skillshots or resources.
Assassins are infinitely more mobile and do much higher damage, plus they can build Death's Dance to heal.
Tanks have better CC and a lot do more sustained damage, plus MR is infinitely more effective than armor and, unless you're playing Azir or Kayle, you basically can't hurt a tank while building AP.
Divers do more damage while being much tankier with better CC.

... What the fuck do mages even do better than anyone? Only time AP is even viable is if you're playing a champ that literally one shots (or a support) -- otherwise you're just intentionally gimping yourself and trolling your team.

And yet, we pretend Riot gives a damn about balance.

13 Comments

JunkοApr 4, 20186 votes

It's such a shame item 3165 mages item 3157 don't item 3135 have item 3102 ways item 3151 to item 3089 deal item 3116 with these problems.

OnotoriApr 4, 20181 votes

So, GW stops lifesteal, right? Well, look at it this way: 300 / 2 = 150/s. So, if you don't literally one shot them, they are going to outsustain anything in your kit unless you're playing Azir, since mages have these weird cooldown things.

And I'd love for you to find a tank that actually dies to a mage not named Azir if said mage isn't fed.

OnecimusApr 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

And I'd love for you to find a tank that actually dies to a mage not named Azir if said mage isn't fed.

Any tank dies almost every time to me playing Anivia item 3151 and some magic pen, which is what I build on her.

The best mages to play right now are control mages (imho). They control the battlefield through their cc (which is actually generally better than tanks. There a few exceptions), their extremely wide range of control, and other means (like Anivia wall or Heimerdinger turrets for example).

True, it's hard to 1v3, but with Anivia (she's my main midlaner, if you couldn't tell xD) I can pretty easily 2v3 or 2v4.

JamareeApr 4, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I just honestly don't know why I bother playing them.

ADCs burst much harder and have higher sustained damage, plus they have lifesteal out the ass and no cooldowns, skillshots or resources.

No they don't, only if they are fed out of their mind.

Assassins are infinitely more mobile and do much higher damage, plus they can build Death's Dance to heal.

And have a quarter if none of the CC said mages have.

Tanks have better CC and a lot do more sustained damage, plus MR is infinitely more effective than armor and, unless you're playing Azir or Kayle, you basically can't hurt a tank while building AP.

And less burst, which is the point of a mage.

Divers do more damage while being much tankier with better CC.

No, they don't.

... What the fuck do mages even do better than anyone? Only time AP is even viable is if you're playing a champ that literally one shots (or a support) -- otherwise you're just intentionally gimping yourself and trolling your team.

Anivia Cassiopeia Lissandra Malzahar Orianna Syndra Taliyah Velkoz Ziggs Xerath Azir

You play them for the long range damage, CC, and utility they offer.

OnotoriApr 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No they don't, only if they are fed out of their mind.

Now if only that was how it worked. Unfortunately, it's not. IE, Statik, and all the little bonus damages ADCs get make them do much more damage at all points in the game, unless you're like 15/0 as Veigar or Zoe.

And have a quarter if none of the CC said mages have.

Yeah, that's the only thing mages do better than ADCs. But, that CC is also easily avoided, and AD champs have several items to nullify it.

And less burst, which is the point of a mage.

An ADC that autos twice does more damage than a mage does with their full combo. I fail to see how a mage outbursts them.

No, they don't.

Yes, they do. Show me one that doesn't.

Yaśuo MainApr 4, 20182 votes

An ADC that autos twice does more damage than a mage does with their full combo

At level 3, an ADC will do like, 80-130 damage with 2 auto attacks combined.

At level 3, say someone like Ahri or Xerath will do atleast 250 damage with an entire combo. Infact, about any mage will atleast do 200.

But, that CC is also easily avoided, and AD champs have several items to nullify it

You mean QSS which is about the only thing you can buy to avoid it. And this does not compare to the ninja tabi + seekers armguard combo to make an assassin have ZERO kill pressure without ignite.

Now if only that was how it worked

Well it is how it works, go 1v1 an ADC as a mage at level 6 and have fun winning. That is, if you're skilled enough.

VekknaApr 4, 20183 votes

I asked myself the same question earlier this season, so I started playing Tristana mid for fun. She has great wave clear, a safe lane, no mana issues, excellent all-in, scales well with exp, and deals hybrid damage. I fucking stomped every lane, pushed early turrets, and was basically immune to ganks. If my jungler wanted to gank, you just jump in assassin-style and collect free gold.

Then team fighting came around and we started losing. I think I actually lost every game. Why? Picks.

At the end of the day, mages might seem worthless on paper, but they aren't. Poking and picks create safe engage opportunities for team fights. Their niche is really to set up opportunities for winnable fights, and they're the best at it.

Warrior PrincessApr 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I just honestly don't know why I bother playing them.

ADCs burst much harder and have higher sustained damage, plus they have lifesteal out the ass and no cooldowns, skillshots or resources.

Assassins are infinitely more mobile and do much higher damage, plus they can build Death's Dance to heal.

Tanks have better CC and a lot do more sustained damage, plus MR is infinitely more effective than armor and, unless you're playing Azir or Kayle, you basically can't hurt a tank while building AP.

Divers do more damage while being much tankier with better CC.

... What the fuck do mages even do better than anyone? Only time AP is even viable is if you're playing a champ that literally one shots (or a support) -- otherwise you're just intentionally gimping yourself and trolling your team.

And yet, we pretend Riot gives a damn about balance.

THIS. The only people down voting are tanks/adc's/bruisers that don't want mages to be buffed

paisyApr 4, 20182 votes

What the fuck, then why are they always meta? Even in the highest tiers of play?

kaironenApr 4, 20181 votes

Mages generally have higher range and control radius (areas where you get in danger if you go in). They also give a ton of waveclear to stall the game out. They also bring CC which helps peal for the carry, yourself, or other roles. Their burst is higher, you just need to land abilities compared to the adc right clicking you.

OnotoriApr 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Mages generally have higher range and control radius (areas where you get in danger if you go in)

That range is so fucking easily closed by 90% of the roster that it's not even funny. Hell, most ADCs will just run at you and out damage you in the blink of an eye, since they can use minions and whatnot to block for them. So that's irrelevant.

They also give a ton of waveclear to stall the game out

So do most assassins and divers. Almost all of them have an item or kits that have absurd waveclear. Plus it's not like ADCs have a hard time clearing.

They also bring CC which helps peal for the carry, yourself, or other roles.

So why not play a tank? They do that better.

Their burst is higher, you just need to land abilities compared to the adc right clicking you.

No, their burst is higher versus one auto. An ADC that autos twice is already doing more damage than nearly any mage. Plus most mages can be avoided, meaning your damage isn't even guaranteed.

kaironenApr 4, 20181 votes

If you try to close the gap as an adc on a mage without backup, you will regret it. You would need to heavily outplay that mage to be able to kill him. Minions usually only really matter early game in laning. I don't play adc mid lane vs mages so I can't really answer for that, but for mid-late game, minions don't mean anything other than for sieging. I usually don't think about outplaying someone just by the usage of minions in most cases when I walk up to aa. I usually try to predict the skill shot and then dodge up or down, depending on how I predict. Wave clearing as most assassins is suicidal if the enemy team is near. If the enemy fizz presses e to clear wave, he can get immediately collapsed on the moment his pole ends, in which he would either have to burn flash, or die. It's the same thing for most assassins. The most you can do for safe wave clear is zed shadow + e and q, or Diana Q. There's other assassins I probably missed that can do that but it generally won't clear the whole wave.

If you only take out what both classes do that are similar, then you can make one sound better than the other. However, mages do a lot more things than CC so you can't really look at 2 individual similar things and forget the rest. Tanks are melee (except gnar) and generally do not do as much damage. You need to step into the minion line to wave clear, usually. This leads to a similar issue like assassins where it can get risky. In most scenarios, since you are a tank, it won't matter but you could get caught from it and end up dying.

Two aa on adc won't do as much damage as a mage. However, there's a ton of mages and a ton of adcs so it's hard to tell in a vacuum, what 2 classes will do more dmg in that time period. If you compare mages like orianna to an adc like trist with 2 aa, orianna's full combo will do more damage than the tristana's 2 aa. If Oriana only used her q and w, I think the damage will be about even, maybe slightly in the favor of orianna but it won't be a huge difference. If you compare tristana and ahri, then I think tristana's 2 aa dmg will out damage ahri's e and q combo, maybe her w as well. However, ahri's full combo I believe will out damage tristana's 2 aa. You also need to remember that ahri's charm is a pretty long cc ability, so that will also go into how effective the champion is compared to another. The only burst I will say is dumb is rapidfire/shiv combo on adcs. That combo has made the crit adcs really dumb in their first shot burst dmg for a while.

Mages can have their skill shots dodged, but the adc can also be out ranged by the mage. If I am playing Caitlyn, who has 650 range, then my range effectiveness is 650. However, xerath, who has around 900-1200 range effectiveness (idk the exact range of abilities but only the difference really matters), the xerath will heavily out range the Caitlyn. Caitlyn will need to dodge every ability to be able to close the gap on xerath and only if he decides to stay in 1 spot. Xerath has a much bigger control area than Caitlyn and so he has more room to play around with. The only thing that changes the range effectiveness with with rapidfire cannon but xerath still out ranges it. Also, xerath has more damage in his 3 combo than 2 auto attacks.

Also, ADC is a late game class while mages are better early game and maybe mid game as well. Both scales well but ADC is meant to be one of the strongest roles in the late game.