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Dear Bruisers,

HateDaddy··67 votes·2,122 views

It is 2017 in League of Legends, therefore it is imperative that we remind you of this simple truth:

You. Are. Not. Allowed. To. Move.

Want better tenacity itemization? Shut up and don't move, here's a cup of 90% slows galore.

Want knock-ups and the plethora of displacements to have counter itemization? haha enjoy a nice bowl of not being able to control your character

Minion block causing you problems? Sorry pal, we claim minion block doesn't exist and isn't a problem idiot.

It has come to our attention that you enjoy playing the game and we simply cannot allow you to do this unless you are a tank, a mage, a support-tank, an ADC or an assassin. Those assassins don't deserve to enjoy the game either honestly. Since you keep on attempting to do this, we are going to add more CC to the game with less counterplay to it than ever. And then we'll blame one long-term problematic generic champion design that Morello had a secret love affair with as our reason to not buff tenacity instead of just gutting this generic, non-interesting design character and giving her a new kit entirely (IRELIA).

Sincerely,

Riot Games.

I want to point out that I've been saying there's too much fucking CC in this game for a long time now. Almost every champion in the game has crowd control, which is fucking stupid. And crowd control continues to get worse while there is nothing being done to reduce its power. Heaven forbid I pick an immobile (or fuck even a mobile bruiser at this point not named jarvan or jax) and want to enjoy the game. What was I thinking?

69 Comments

Big Lincoln26 votes

game needs both less CC and less _spammable _ CC

it'd feel much fairer imo if dodging a big CC spell meant I had more than 3 seconds to act before they throw it at me again, and they could be rewarded with it for a longer CC if they hit

abca989 votes

I agree if we reduce the mobility too. CC exists because you can't deal with things like Riven, Yasuo, Akali, Vayne and others without permastuns.

Big Lincoln5 votes

I can deal with most of these champions on ones who barely have any CC

abca981 votes

Which ones do you use?

Big Lincoln3 votes

i use illaoi into riven very often, darius/garen into yasuo

outside of ranked where I'm required to be a metaslave i play mostly juggernauts

nice table1 votes

you must be playing against some pretty bad rivens and yasuos if those picks are working out for you

Big Lincoln4 votes

riven can't all-in illaoi unless she misses E

i'm pretty ok at landing it so i can do pretty well

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fgwlba4q,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-08T22:56:42.297+0000)

i use illaoi into riven very often, darius/garen into yasuo

outside of ranked where I'm required to be a metaslave i play mostly juggernauts

Riven can dodge everything that Illaoi throws at her. It is a pretty bad example.

Big Lincoln1 votes

can does not mean will

ZyniX2 votes

I think the problem is too much cooldown reduction more then cc. It's on everything these days. Even riot agrees which is why there will be a rune that gives you extra bonuses per cdr over the cap.

Ralanr14 votes

More roots, less knock ups.

That's all I ask if we get more tenacity.

TimX24968B4 votes

more silences and taunts, too.

Ahristocats14 votes

game needs BKB now, and whoever disagrees has honestly never played a bruiser that can't do shit except if he's in melee range

i just thank god that mordekaiser can burst a squishy from 600 range

Catastrop7 votes

[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fgwlba4q,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-08-08T18:27:24.678+0000)

game needs BKB now,

Or just buff Cleanse? Why this thing doesn't also just straight up give a short duration of CC immunity after activation is beyond me(well aside from Merc Scimitar's existence I guess).

Big Lincoln9 votes

because mid laners would break it like they broke ghost

NineTailedMystic6 votes

Cleanse: Removes all disables (excluding Suppression and Airborne) and summoner spells debuffs affecting your champion, as well as granting 65% crowd control reduction for 3 seconds. If your champion is melee, you instead gain crowd control immunity for 3 seconds.

How's that?

Big Lincoln2 votes

maybe 2 seconds of cc immunity, 3 seems generous

NineTailedMystic7 votes

I don't think two seconds would help much. In a proper CC chain, I feel like 2 seconds would block maybe 1 CC.

Danjeng1 votes

3 seconds is more than enough time to take on a rotation of CC.

Catastrop2 votes

This is sad, for once I can't even defend any of the midlane roster here. Aside from the ones who are already terrible, at least.

But to address your point, only melees could get the full cc immunity.

JedenVojak1 votes

{quoted}

Or just buff Cleanse? Why this thing doesn't also just straight up give a short duration of CC immunity after activation is beyond me(well aside from Merc Scimitar's existence I guess).

They'd have to delete flash, since Teleport Flash are required on almost all characters now it seems.

Ralanr1 votes

What is BKB?

Wet Dryman1 votes

Black King Bar, item from Dota https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Black_King_Bar

Ralanr7 votes

How would something like that not be abused by assassins?

Ahristocats2 votes

by giving it shit damage while assassins needs duskblade+youmu to kill someone?

MLDzXnRRR2 votes

[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fgwlba4q,comment-id=00040002000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T05:02:24.944+0000)

by giving it shit damage while assassins needs duskblade+youmu to kill someone?

This will be abused by the "Slayer" type champions that have enough damage in their kits and CC and really high burst damage are their only counters.

Ahristocats4 votes

it's not an abuse, they're also in the melee of the fight and needs something against cc

high burst damage is not their only counter, to yi and trynd yeah because they're outdated and need to be gutted until reworked

KuroCaliber1 votes

This is essentially the whole grievous wounds problem in bruiser form. ADC being like why can't we counter grievous wounds (cc) when it's meant to counter our lifesteal (diving).

Arakadia2 votes

I deleted my original comment about what BKB was if your wondering.

BKB looks extremely overpowered. Literally makes mages useless. No exaggeration, from my understanding, completely removes their entire kit that effects enemies.

Ahristocats2 votes

what you don't know is that not every spells are blocked by BKB

also, i don't care about magic immunity, all i want is cc immunity on bruisers

CamilleRule346 votes

Olaf

HateDaddy47 votes

{quoted}

Olaf

Presses R and dies to oxygen

Ahristocats13 votes

xD this made my day, thanks bro

LoliKnight5 votes

Even you and me would die to oxygen.

Oxygen is a highly reactive element and at high or pure concentrations with prolonged exposure, it can combine with the proteins in our lungs and result in a reduction of the haemoglobin in our blood's ability to circulate it, leading to eventual death.

At one atmospheric pressure, prolonged administration of 100% oxygen has the potential to cause lung damage by destroying the cells in our blood vessels as the pressure differential makes oxygen incapable of being transferred properly. This leads to the blood vessels flooding the lungs with their contents and literally drowning us from within.

Chromatic Eagle5 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8cZUhiP3us

DunkinNoobs6 votes

And then Yasuo comes around and there's 1 melee champ that can finally deal with the endless barrage of CC thanks to windwall and people want him hanged for it.

Knoyle8 votes

No, people want him hanged because is is just generally annoying. His e is annoying to play around, his w feels like a giant fuck you button half the time with all the ranged abilities, his passive just sounds overloaded on paper even if it isn't in actuality, his tornado q hitbox is visually misleading half the time and possibly the worst part is... https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/0/06/Yasuo.W3.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20131123012926 https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/4/48/Yasuo.W4.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20131123012927

DunkinNoobs3 votes

At least you admit the passive isn't the problem. That passive gets more unjust bitching than anything I've ever seen in this game.

SithesisLord2 votes

The only issue i have with Yasuo isn´t even with him but with PD.

Too cheap an item for too much a combination of stats and passives.

DunkinNoobs2 votes

I'm not a huge fan of PD either as a Yasuo main, but CC creep kinda necessitates that it exists.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

{quoted}

No, people want him hanged because is is just generally annoying. His e is annoying to play around, his w feels like a giant fuck you button half the time with all the ranged abilities, his passive just sounds overloaded on paper even if it isn't in actuality, his tornado q hitbox is visually misleading half the time and possibly the worst part is... https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/0/06/Yasuo.W3.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20131123012926 https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/4/48/Yasuo.W4.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20131123012927

The most annoying thing about Yasuo is that he has like no cds and constantly spams without any resource. Forget about all the shields, knockups, wall and crit strikes. His manaless spam is the biggest offense. Riot managed to reduce the mana costs of the older champs, introduce CDR on almost every item and the new champs have low mana costs and Yasuo still feels too spammy.

PentaDenier5 votes

J4 is a bruiser? i thought he was full lethality assassin

LoliKnight4 votes

And then we'll blame one long-term problematic generic champion design that Morello had a secret love affair with as our reason to not buff tenacity instead of just gutting this generic, non-interesting design character and giving her a new kit entirely (IRELIA).

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Skorch3 votes

Bruisers posts annoy me. They just sound like they want you to have 0 ways to stop them.

Fuck all ranged champions, I should be able to force everyone to fight me 1v1 in melee. Fuck all champions with mobility, i cant catch them, i just want them to fight me melee. Fuck all CC, my #1 counter? Fuck that, i just want to get to them and destroy them.

Bruisers arent even struggling that hard. In fact toplane is pretty balanced vs eachother right now.

Im not saying you SHOULDNT be able to get onto people. But it sounds like bruiser mains just want all counterplay to their champion removed so that they can just run rampant.

Big Lincoln17 votes

i don't think it's unfair to ask to actually be able to participate in a teamfight without resorting to tank-support builds

the majority of bruisers who aren't trash right now are relegated to that or splitpushing because they have very few REAL options against a decent team in anything beyond a teeny skirmish. and balancing them around this inability to teamfight means they have to be overwhelming in 1v1 encounter, which also contributes to the notion that lot of bruisers are just copy/pastes of each other with the same exact strengths

it's a nasty cycle and i for one am sick of it

Skorch1 votes

Most bruisers survive with 2 or 3 tank items because they need to. Are you telling me a Bruiser should be able to run into a teamfight as a melee without any tank items and not get killed?

BobaFlautist11 votes

No, he's saying everyone's favorite ex-semi pro pointed out that it's a little off that Warwick's best build includes item 1401 item 3190 item 3107 when his entire theme revolves around hunting down people and killing them.

That it would be nice if bruisers actually got to fight people, instead of just standing in front of their adc and acting as a second support.

Like sure, some divers absolutely have incredibly unhealthy play patterns without much in the way of counterplay (Olaf Vi ) but the answer isn't to turn them into pretend tanks.

PB4UAME7 votes

If you don't see the counterplay to Olaf, you aren't looking at all.

Dude turns BRIGHT FUCKING RED, shouts at you, and spins his axes, while losing resistances as well, just to press that R and ignore CC for 6 seconds. Oh, and did I mention he is melee on all but his Q, with no gapcloser, nor hard CC.

Bronze Bonanza2 votes

This is why I play Nasus as an AP champion.

Teridax682 votes

While the tone of the OP could be better, I think there's somewhat of a point here, namely:

{quoted}

I want to point out that I've been saying there's too much fucking CC in this game for a long time now. Almost every champion in the game has crowd control

As a baseline, the average champion in League has about two separate instances of innate crowd control in their kit, not counting additional accessible effects like red buff, Frozen Mallet/Rylai's, etc. Out of the game's 137 champions, only 7 have no crowd control at all, and several of these counter their deficit through items and buffs, e.g. Ezreal/Lucian/Master Yi with BotRK (Ez also frequently uses Iceborn Gauntlet, and Yi often has red buff and ends up building Frozen Mallet), and Mordekaiser with Rylai's, a core item for him. In addition, it is not uncommon for at least one of those CC effects to be hard CC, i.e. a stun, root, knockup, etc. Effectively, in League it's completely taken for granted to have a stun or knockup in one's kit, along with a slow, and anything below that is considered a weakness.

When compared to other MOBAs, League has by far the highest saturation of crowd control, and I don't think it's entirely unrelated to the fact that melee classes have a hard time operating in close ranges: in HotS, for example, the baseline for most characters is to have no crowd control whatsoever, and only some of them have the option to get some via talents. In Dota 2, the baseline is a little higher, but still at one instance of CC, often just a slow or a mini-stun for heroes who aren't designated disablers. Both of these are games where melee champions thrive, even when there really are instances of long-duration CC, because they can't get locked down or kited as hard, and often have greater means of countering that too (several characters in HotS can make themselves unstoppable, and Dota 2 has the Black King Bar, which grants total immunity to magic for extended periods of time).

What I think League needs is not simply improvements to Tenacity and anti-CC options, but also a larger pass to crowd control so that champions lose what CC they have that isn't essential: Quinn, for example, could definitely keep her nearsight, but could probably lose her guaranteed knockback/slow combo on her E. Similarly, for a champion with tons of range, burst and DPS, plus a bit of mobility, Caitlyn could probably afford to not have her E slow enemies. Additionally, what CC that does remain needs to be made interactive for ranged champions and melee champions, which means taking a look at the likes of Morgana's skillshot root, and Fiddlesticks/Rammus's point-and-click control-removing effects. Applying this could help make champions feel less overloaded, and would help better define what they truly contribute and lack: while personally I'd like to reach a state like HotS, where only some champions have CC, and those who don't shouldn't require it to function, I'd be very happy with a state of CC akin to Dota 2, where most champions would have a means of controlling their opponent, without being able to majorly disable them unless they're designed to do so.

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