There's no way around it: Vlad needs a full VGU.

HateDaddy·Mar 20, 2017·5 votes·832 views

And what's funny is, his VGU is the simplest. Change his Q so he's no longer a point and click resourceless harass machine.

Vlads W is fine Vlads E is fine Vlads R is questionable but with a reasonable Q, likely fine.

Adding a bar to tell me when you're going to shit on me or be worthless doesn't suddenly make your play style less binary. I support Riot a bunch but very few of these class updates have actually produced anything that ended up with a better design. It just shows that altering a champions kit likely requires quite a bit of scrutiny and detail so instead, why not stop releasing champions and use those same resources to update old champions.

15 Comments

AhristocatsMar 20, 20173 votes

{quoted}

And what's funny is, his VGU is the simplest. Change his Q so he's no longer a point and click resourceless harass machine.

if you forget on purpose that it's compensated by -garbage base damage and healing until 3rd Q that shows you when he's about to have power

the most terrible laning phase

i smell a QQ about someone who didn't manage to smash vladimir in lane when he has 28 sec cd on W that costs 20% of his hp, has 13 sec cd on E also costs a lot of hp, has a trash base hp and base movement speed making anyone able to bully him and his hp is reduced by i don't know how much in lane with executioner that costs 800 gold

the only thing vlad needs to be balanced in high elo is counterplay on R

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs] you're welcome

HateDaddyMar 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fgXAIuHc,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-03-20T22:10:54.742+0000)

if you forget on purpose that it's compensated by -garbage base damage and healing until 3rd Q that shows you when he's about to have power

the most terrible laning phase

i smell a QQ about someone who didn't manage to smash vladimir in lane when he has 28 sec cd on W that costs 20% of his hp, has 13 sec cd on E also costs a lot of hp, has a trash base hp and base movement speed making anyone able to bully him and his hp is reduced by i don't know how much in lane with executioner that costs 800 gold

the only thing vlad needs to be balanced in high elo is counterplay on R

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs] you're welcome

Except I don't have any issues dealing with vlad because he's a shitty top laner. And despite your claims, he's an incredibly powerful competitive pick in mid lane. That should strike as a problem. But again, make it anecdotal and attack me as a player and not my actual arguments. If keeping his Q point and click require that much reduction in power across the board, then maybe that's a problem?

I mean, we just went from vlad being garbage to a powerhouse pick overnight because of small buffs. Granted, I realize there's more to pick becoming strong than that but vlads binary gameplay still remains the same and that'll likely remain true until he gets a real update.

Now, I understand that you are typically incapable of logic and change stances galore to pander for upvotes, but do me a favor and actually attack my arguments and points rather than make accusations out of thin our, especially when I never said vlad is overpowered, simply poorly designed still.

Thanks, pal.

AhristocatsMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Except I don't have any issues dealing with vlad because he's a shitty top laner.

you can say that, and i can believe what i want to believe

{quoted}

And despite your claims, he's an incredibly powerful competitive pick in mid lane.

he isn't, his win rate right now in lcs is 25%, his win rate in top elo is 47% play him and you will understand how weak he is until he has 2 or 3 items combined with people buying executioner

{quoted}

That should strike as a problem. But again, make it anecdotal and attack me as a player and not my actual arguments.

"point and click harass machine" was your argument that forgot on purpose everything that made vlad balanced

{quoted}

If keeping his Q point and click require that much reduction in power across the board, then maybe that's a problem?

it isn't, because IN THE END it is not a problem, they kept a point and click spell and managed to balance it and it's good because this makes vlad not a mere skillshot mage

{quoted}

I mean, we just went from vlad being garbage to a powerhouse pick overnight because of small buffs.

small buffs? you call it a small buff when riot gives him +30 base damage on a 2 sec cd spell?

{quoted}

Granted, I realize there's more to pick becoming strong than that but vlads binary gameplay still remains the same and that'll likely remain true until he gets a real update.

**you have no idea how his gameplay is so quite talking about what you don't know ** since the rework it opened to vladimir so much outcomes, he can survive a fight with his R heal, he can delay damage by doing E+W combo, managing his Q bar is actually better than facerolling Q

the enemies can block the E projectiles they can CC him during E unlike before

R O F L

{quoted}

Now, I understand that you are typically incapable of logic and change stances galore to pander for upvotes, but do me a favor and actually attack my arguments

there is nothing to attack, your ignorance is what prevents me from countering your arguments

HateDaddyMar 20, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fgXAIuHc,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-03-20T22:43:03.258+0000)

you can say that, and i can believe what i want to believe

You can but your entire post is basically an ad hominem so it says otherwise.

And despite your claims, he's an incredibly powerful competitive pick in mid lane.

he isn't, his win rate right now in lcs is 25%, his win rate in top elo is 47% play him and you will understand how weak he is until he has 2 or 3 items combined with people buying executioner

Still gets picked a bunch, which means he is powerful. And that is a problem no matter how you slice it these days. Let's face it, when something is popular in pros, it's probably too strong.

That should strike as a problem. But again, make it anecdotal and attack me as a player and not my actual arguments.

"point and click harass machine" was your argument that forgot on purpose everything that made vlad balanced

it isn't, because IN THE END it is not a problem, they kept a point and click spell and managed to balance it and it's good because this makes vlad not a mere skillshot mage

Fair point but it doesn't change the crux of his kit. He still shoves you in hard and Qs you or he doesn't. That's still a problem because of the way he ends up playing the lane out. Either he pushes you in and rolls you or he doesn't.

small buffs? you call it a small buff when riot gives him +30 base damage on a 2 sec cd spell?

Okay you got me, not so small. Regardless, that's a frightening change from going from "garbage" to must-pick in pros.

**you have no idea how his gameplay is so quite talking about what you don't know ** since the rework it opened to vladimir so much outcomes, he can survive a fight with his R heal, he can delay damage by doing E+W combo, managing his Q bar is actually better than facerolling Q

I agree that it's much better than old Vlad but there's still much to be desired I suspect.

the enemies can block the E projectiles

They can, and it is an improvement but his play style still renders the same. He charges E and pushes you in then Qs you or he doesnt and gets wrecked. That's my point, I'd argue his design is crap regardless.

they can CC him during E unlike before

See above

R O F L

I'm genuinely confused by you. You turn everything into personal attacks and come off as an angry, socially inept child incapable of conducting yourself in a civil manner. You certainly aren't dumb, you speak very good English despite it not being your first language (well, write it) and while I disagree with some stuff you say, you tend to understand the game well. Yet, you resort to such pathetic personal attacks for someone having a standpoint that differs from yours. It's rather embarrassing considering how you should be aware of this given your intellect. Maybe you should take some time off if such simple things make you snap.

there is nothing to attack, your ignorance is what prevents me from countering your arguments

See above.

AhristocatsMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You can but your entire post is basically an ad hominem so it says otherwise.

If you forget the entire explination on vladimir's current design of spells and gameplay then sure

{quoted}

Still gets picked a bunch, which means he is powerful.

And thus being powerful is a crime lul it's hilarious how you can turn words into problems vladimir is in NO WAY one of the most powerful midlaners/toplaners, he's just decent that's all

{quoted}

And that is a problem no matter how you slice it these days. Let's face it, when something is popular in pros, it's probably too strong.

it's so fucking **** i have no words for it you just can't understand that what is viable in coordinated plays is NOT THE SAME thing than in soloq where it's clown fiesta EVEN in challenger

{quoted}

Either he pushes you in and rolls you or he doesn't.

play vlad once, and then send me a clip of you shoving hard the enemy laner into his turret. Renekton camille irelia riven

those are the 4 i encountered while playing vlad top, and didn't manage to shove anyone of them, in fact i always ended up under tower and couldn't farm well while trying to get into mid game

i will only rely on vladimir's mains comming here and show the bs of your arguments that aren't even real in game

{quoted}

Okay you got me, not so small. Regardless, that's a frightening change from going from "garbage" to must-pick in pros.

must pick pro? WTF CARES ABOUT PRO?

he is picked in like 30% of the games -and ends up with 25% win rate because he's a shadow of what he used to be

{quoted}

I agree that it's much better than old Vlad but there's still much to be desired I suspect.

read above on how you can lane against vlad and you will see what happens when you know how to play against him, EVERY SINGLE odd is against him he just can't do anything in lane against an experience laner

his teamfight is actually what doesn't have counterplay as he has an instant AOE damage amp with 700 range and 450 aoe but you don't know this, because you never played vlad somehow didn't destroyed him in lane and now want to rework his Q

{quoted}

They can, and it is an improvement

i didn't say it wouldn't improve him, i said it's better if they keep his Q the way it is so vlad is different than other mages he would be the only one with an instant point and click damage ability which stays balanced

and don't bring the bullshit toxic design argument when vlad can't win lane

{quoted}

I'm genuinely confused by you. You turn everything into personal attacks and come off as an angry, socially inept child incapable of conducting yourself in a civil manner.

i never said the opposite, i don't claim to be civil i'm here to talk about balance and design, the only thing that isn't allowed is to insult other players which i don't do unless i tell them to learn how to play against a champion

Ben SharpioMar 20, 20172 votes

are there still people out there that think he needs buffs when he becomes a late game monster while remaining ungankable during the laning phase

VladCuzBadMar 20, 20172 votes

The bar is actually the most useful resource when fighting vlad.... If its red run away... if its not... don't? Just learn to counter 1 fkin ability and stop complaining.

Asayake 5150glowMar 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Galaxy Fighter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fgXAIuHc,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-03-20T22:11:31.821+0000)

The bar is actually the most useful resource when fighting vlad.... If its red run away... if its not... don't? Just learn to counter 1 fkin ability and stop complaining.

The problem is when a item 3152 item 3157 item 3116 Vlad oneshots you when you're both equal in gold and level, without his third Q.

HateDaddyMar 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Galaxy Fighter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fgXAIuHc,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-03-20T22:11:31.821+0000)

The bar is actually the most useful resource when fighting vlad.... If its red run away... if its not... don't? Just learn to counter 1 fkin ability and stop complaining.

What happens when vlad pushes you in and you're forced to cs or eat empowered Qs? If the answer is push him back, then this proves my point: it doesn't remove his binary play. Either he's able to run you down and put you in a position to eat Qs or he's not. That's binary play and that's pretty poor in design.

As for his team fight, id argue his team fight has always been fine. Vlads problem has always been lane phase.

AhristocatsMar 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

What happens when vlad pushes you in

then you fucked up son

VladCuzBadMar 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What happens when vlad pushes you in and you're forced to cs or eat empowered Qs? If the answer is push him back, then this proves my point: it doesn't remove his binary play. Either he's able to run you down and put you in a position to eat Qs or he's not. That's binary play and that's pretty poor in design.

As for his team fight, id argue his team fight has always been fine. Vlads problem has always been lane phase

you are never in a position to "eat q's" that's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The key to beating vlad is counterpick (which he has alot of) and burst him when he doesnt have empowered q. Its honestly simple. Not binary. You can always escape his q's if u position correctly

Asayake 5150glowMar 20, 20171 votes

Misleading title - a change to only his Q isn't a full VGU, it's a partial one.

HateDaddyMar 20, 20171 votes