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I cringe when I hear someone use the term overloaded

HateDaddy··9 votes·1,656 views

Because everything is relative and relatively speaking, almost nothing is overloaded in this game. I hear people use this term to describe Lee yet despite his "overloaded-ness," all he is late game at best is an Insec which is never consistent. Compared to other junglers, he's no more overloaded than they are. He just has access to his power spikes early where other junglers might not.

It's the same with Zed. What is overloaded about him? He has everything an assassin is supposed to have: damage, mobility, tools to harass, all-in potential and yes, a slight moment of being untargetable. How exactly does this make him overloaded? His dash is pretty short range, he has to use 3 spells at once to reliably harass in lane. He's one of the hardest countered champions by itemization. His burst is conditional and has opportunities to be played around. If I had to take Zed at his best vs Kassadin at his best, I'd take zed as a much healthier design 10/10 times and anyone who disagrees is completey delsuinal and bias.

"Omg but HATEDADDY! His passive means he can last hit under tower!" Im sorry? Are you bad? Last hitting under tower and not missing creeps or missing very few is a basic that every champion is capable of. And oh golly gee, what's that? An AD champion can last hit under tower? Wow!!!!! People think this is somehow overloaded? "Omg no HATEDADDY stop! He gets free AD as a passive and he's slippery, too slippery!" Okay? Lol because Zed is the only champion to ever get AD as a passive, looking at you Yi. Gets AD passively on a skill that does true damage WHILE HAVING SCALING TRUE DAMAGE. He has mobility too. He has untargetability too. He has steroids too. He can even heal and use that heal as ANOTHER AUTO ATTACK RESET! OMG HE CANT BE SLOWED!!!! Is Yi overloaded now? If course he isn't. Because very few things actually are, it's just a piss poor attempt at making an argument that's delsuonal and foolish at best because many people fail to mention these things that "overload" a champion are often conditional.

But y'know, you gotta say it's overloaded because it's a buzzword and short sighted, hiveminded, misguided and ignorant posters will upvote you and agree with you.

As you can tell, this word triggers me. And it does so because it's one of those words that just gets foolishly thrown around to the point that I'd rather go swim in a pool in vomit than read half the garbage that comes up on these boards. "Omg why is Lee Sins ult so overpowered!!" Boy I don't know, because it's an ultimate and the rest of his kit sans Q is irrelevant late game? Why is Azir's ult, which can do the same thing while zoning with impassability so hilariously overpowered? Oh that's right, 41% winrate, must be weak even though Lee's winrate is always atrociously low too. But fuck using logic and ratjonale around these parts.

So in short, I humbly ask ye of the Gameplay and Balance community to stop throwing this word around. It's misused, done in disgusting stupidity and is always done so wrongly.

Thanks

Best regards,

HateDaddy

39 Comments

ChoGathsSon5 votes

Wow hartdardy this post is overloaded

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Wow hartdardy this post is overloaded

HNGGGGGGGG

Salron1 votes

{quoted}

HNGGGGGGGG

HateDaddy what did the Psychologist say about talking to yourself Remember your medication

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fad4wH1M,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-22T03:15:08.646+0000)

HateDaddy what did the Psychologist say about talking to yourself Remember your medication

?

I'm talking to ChoGathsSon

He's ChoGaths son

disregardable3 votes

I love how both of the champions you listed are manaless, and you don't even acknowledge how much of a benefit that is.

SwapShadows2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fad4wH1M,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-22T03:11:57.449+0000)

I love how both of the champions you listed are manaless, and you don't even acknowledge how much of a benefit that is.

What type of logic is this? Mana in almost all ways is better than energy except for the early game, if lee sin and zed ran on mana they would be much stronger and wouldn't be gated by having to wait a few seconds to use abilities that are off cooldown.

HateDaddy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fad4wH1M,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-22T03:11:57.449+0000)

I love how both of the champions you listed are manaless, and you don't even acknowledge how much of a benefit that is.

Oh man, because mana is such a restricting spell in a lane where you're often granted access to blue buff, have items that restore and regen mana or build your mana pool that scale much better than any items your manaless/energy opponent is building. Not to mention flask exists.

And during this time when you're restricted by mana costs, Zed is also restricted by energy costs where he can't just endlessly spam all at once and it also means CDR is not a great stat on him for this reason. Not mention, if he wants to consistently harass/clear, he has to use his mobility spell and his E/Q, meaning he exhausts his entire kit just to do this in a lane where the other champion typically only uses one, two spells at most for the same feat while scaling much better.

SwapShadows2 votes

{quoted}

Oh man, because mana is such a restricting spell in a lane where you're often granted access to blue buff, have items that restore and regen mana or build your mana pool that scale much better than any items your manalessalways opponent is building. Not to mention flask exists.

And during this time when you're restricted by mana costs, Zed is also restricted by energy costs where he can't just endlessly spam all at once and it also means CDR is not a great stat on him for this reason. Not mention, if he wants to consistently harass/clear, he has to use his mobility spell and his E/Q, meaning he exhausts his entire kit just to do this in a lane where the other champion typically only uses one, two spells at most for the same feat while scaling much better.

I'd rather have Mana on Zed, you will always run into a situation where you can't do shit because you just used all your abilities and now you gotta wait like 4-5 seconds to get energy back even though your abilities are ready to go.

SaltyKracka1 votes

{quoted}

I'd rather have Mana on Zed, you will almost never run into a situation where you can't do shit because you just used all your abilities and now you gotta wait like 4-5 seconds to get energy back even though your abilities are ready to go.

It's called going OOM. Characters with actual resource costs have to deal with it.

SwapShadows3 votes

{quoted}

It's called going OOM. Characters with actual resource costs have to deal with it.

except you have access to masteries,items and blue buff to not go oom.

Mana is only a problem during the early game for most champions that run on it, stop acting like mana is actually an issue for most champions.

SaltyKracka1 votes

You do realize that blue buff increases energy regeneration too, right?

Or the fact that some champs have to itemize into mana items in order to avoid going OOM? Or the fact that there are plenty of characters in the game that have to risk going OOM because you can't actually have blue buff all the time?

...The masteries bit was a larf and a half, though. You're a good comedian.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

You do realize that blue buff increases energy regeneration too, right?

So both champions get a pass to their resource once they get it? So it offsets itself at best. Not seeing the issue.

Or the fact that some champs have to itemize into mana items in order to avoid going OOM? Or the fact that there are plenty of characters in the game that have to risk going OOM because you can't actually have blue buff all the time?

And these items that you're trying to downplay the power of are some of the most powerful, well rounded items that over several stats and utility that thse non mana champions could never have access to. And going oom early game is about resource managment. Manage it well, it's not a huge problem. Most resourceless champions don't scale nearly as well as a mana based champion.

...The masteries bit was a larf and a half, though. You're a good comedian.

I'm sorry, did you want AD masteries/runes on Syndra when you'd run those same mana regenrune/masteries regardless of who you'd lane against? Oh right, it's because it's convenient for your argument now to bitch about it.

SaltyKracka1 votes

{quoted} I'm sorry, did you want AD masteries/runes on Syndra when you'd run those same mana regenrune/masteries regardless of who you'd lane against? Oh right, it's because it's convenient for your argument now to bitch about it.

I literally can't tell what you're trying to say here.

Regardless, the mana masteries are

A: In the Utility tree. B: Either shit (Expanded Mind) or unusable by any sane mid laner (Meditation)

Monsieur Seasalt1 votes

{quoted}

I literally can't tell what you're trying to say here.

Regardless, the mana masteries are

A: In the Utility tree. B: Either shit (Expanded Mind) or unusable by any sane mid laner (Meditation)

21-0-9 is the standard mastery page for midlaners, m8.

SaltyKracka1 votes

9 points into the utility tree isn't going to get you any points in Meditation.

Monsieur Seasalt1 votes

{quoted}

9 points into the utility tree isn't going to get you any points in Meditation.

It's mostly to get expanded mind and the biscuits, m8. And then don't spend mana stupidly in lane.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

It's called going OOM. Characters with actual resource costs have to deal with it.

Going OOM only happens to players who press QWE everytime they're available to be pressed. And in mid lane, with blue buff especially, mana is a non existent stat for the rest of the game around post level 6-7. And in that same time, energy champs are often largely constricted with their ability to use spells at a whim as well. Please don't ignore the significance of this.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

I'd rather have Mana on Zed, you will always run into a situation where you can't do shit because you just used all your abilities and now you gotta wait like 4-5 seconds to get energy back even though your abilities are ready to go.

Be careful what you wish for, Zed with mana would likely be 2x stronger than Zed at his best with energy would ever be. Mana is the best scaling resource in the game, it's gates allow spells to be significantly more powerful than non mana based spells, not to mention it has amazing scaling itemization with it and it ties into other stats like CDR that energy champs as an example, cannot build or want limited amounts at best.

Paragon Fury3 votes

Because the Champions you described aren't the ones people talk about being overloaded. Zed is hated for being super safe and being able to waveclear so effectively for how dangerous he is to Champions.

The Champions that get hit with the overloaded label are most typically;

Ekko Jayce Nidalee Thresh Yasuo etc.

For various reasons. Take for example Yasuo :

  • 2 Strong Passives
  • Powerful Ult with built-in free gold effects
  • Windwall is on the power tier of being another Ult, but is a basic ability
  • Gapcloser
  • Knock-up
  • High damage

He is basically 2/3 Champions combined into one; you could break him up and probably make 2 champions from the remains. Or Thresh , whose kit has so much power and has so much loaded into it even if he healed the enemy team he'd still be a top-tier pick.

HateDaddy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Paragon Fury,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fad4wH1M,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-09-22T03:28:16.414+0000)

Because the Champions you described aren't the ones people talk about being overloaded. Zed is hated for being super safe and being able to waveclear so effectively for how dangerous he is to Champions.

And he also scales like complete shit into late game because of how hard countered by itemization he is, not to mention his waveclear falls off hardcore in comparison to mages, which is fine. It's more than a fair trade off.

The Champions that get hit with the overloaded label are most typically;

Ekko Jayce Nidalee Thresh Yasuo etc.

For various reasons. Take for example Yasuo :

  • 2 Strong Passives
  • Powerful Ult with built-in free gold effects
  • Windwall is on the power tier of being another Ult, but is a basic ability
  • Gapcloser
  • Knock-up
  • High damage

Once again, this is where we must use the term conditional because you're failing to mention the conditional part of this kit conveniently enough.

•2 strong passives

And his cost for that is having his critical damage reduced by 10%, which is huge. Not to mention he also has his Q take a 25% reduce cost in crit damage.

His other passive requires him to be in motion and use his skills well, meaning it's not just there - he has to earn it. That's a far cry from most spells and passives in this game that have zero interaction and are just there as a stat.

•Powerful ult with built in free gold effects

It's also conditional on a knock up being landed, meaning he can't use it whenever he wants, which is a huge price to pay that pretty much every champion in this game doesn't have a problem with. And free gold effects? What? 50% BONUS ARMOR PEN. BONUS ARMOR PEN. BONUS ARMOR PEN. This means it's only good for helping him deal with armor stackers but remember new randuins completely shits on him. And this, once again, is all conditional on him getting a knock up on Q or any other champions knock up. A reasonable price.

•windwall blah

No it's not. This is one of the few anti ranged spells in the game with an incredibly long cooldown while having the capacity to be played around. If this was some champions ult with it's current strength, it would be absolute garbage. Pro tip, don't blow your entire load on a yasuo when windwall is up.

•gap closer

Once again, conditional with a timer cooldown on it meaning he can only gap close to you once every 6 seconds at max rank.

•knock up

Very telegraphed and dependent upon him generating his Q up. It also can fall off if not used within a time frame, meaning he can't use it as a zone tool the same way other champs can similarly use their available hard CC that isn't telegraphed to do the same.

•high damage

Lmao. A champion that builds damage does damage? Wtf riot overloaded. And actually no, compared to other melee carries and assassins (depending on what you label him as, there's no doubt he's a combo of both), his damage is by far the lowest and most inconsistent. Try again.

This whole set of arguments was terrible and you conveniently leave out everything he pays to have this. But no, fuck logic. FÙCK rationale. YOURE OVERLOADED YASUO AND YOU WINDWALLED MY BIKE.

He is basically 2/3 Champions combined into one; you could break him up and probably make 2 champions from the remains. Or Thresh , whose kit has so much power and has so much loaded into it even if he healed the enemy team he'd still be a top-tier pick.

Lol no, this champion would be complete garbage if the same conditions applied for him having these spells in the first place. Which given your argument and it's direction, it would have to.

Snowball4u2 votes

I dont like it when people say overloaded because nobody is.

Every champ has 4 abilities.

Case closed

SaltyKracka1 votes

Jayceke Gnarke Eliseke Nidaleeke

WarlockLaw2 votes

"Overloaded" doesn't mean that a kit is stronger than another kit at a particular stage of the game, though there is correlation. "Overloaded" means that a kit does too many different things.

Lee Sin is somewhat overloaded because he has 3 spells that each have 2 effects in addition to a high cc high damage ult. Sure he falls off relative to others late game, but that's not why he could be considered to be overloaded.

Zed is considered overloaded because he can farm well, harass well, kill well and roam well during laning phase. Normally a champion is bad at least one of those things.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

"Overloaded" doesn't mean that a kit is stronger than another kit at a particular stage of the game, though there is correlation. "Overloaded" means that a kit does too many different things.

I can respect this but I doubt most people see it this way.

Lee Sin is somewhat overloaded because he has 3 spells that each have 2 effects in addition to a high cc high damage ult. Sure he falls off relative to others late game, but that's not why he could be considered to be overloaded.

And then 20 minutes hit and Lee is irrelevant. His effects are also largely ineffective late game as well, not to mention he's just incredibly inconsistent once late game hits. That's his cost for his "overloaded" spells. Call it what you want but that's stupid to use such a term given that half of those spells are complete shit in the game after a certain amount of time. Now could you argue his almost kit has an incredibly inconsistent use and is too front loaded early game? Sure, but that's not supporting him being overloaded and it's a different argument entirely.

Zed is considered overloaded because he can farm well, harass well, kill well and roam well during laning phase. Normally a champion is bad at least one of those things.

So by this logic, every mage is overloaded then because they all do the same thing

WarlockLaw2 votes

Mages have weak autos and mana constraints that Zed dies suffer for.

Though I wasn't really trying to argue on whether or not this two are op, which right now they aren't as far as soloq is concerned. I was only trying to help explain why people might consider them overloaded.

SwapShadows1 votes

Zed is getting free nerfs every few months in the form of champions

9/11 logic from ppl who call him op

Myrddin1 votes

god this post is so overloaded, it's just cancer, and really triggered me

i bet you're toxic

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

god this post is so overloaded, it's just cancer, and really triggered me

i bet you're toxic

Nope, s2 baron Nashor icon and never been banned, restricted and I'm guessing rarely reported at worst.

Myrddin2 votes

{quoted}

Nope, s2 baron Nashor icon and never been banned, restricted and I'm guessing rarely reported at worst.

joke

head

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

joke

head

I don't have a fucking head

Myrddin1 votes

{quoted}

I don't have a fucking head

head is attached to neck

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

head is attached to neck

im a space ranger

Myrddin1 votes

{quoted}

im a space ranger

Like a power ranger? Can i be the pink one?

Koldheartedjsp1 votes

the funny thing is people like to say

"but lee sin has 7 abilities"

yeah, a skill shot Q that's just a nuke... such a good ability or the spellvamp/lifesteal he gets for his 2nd w... such a good standalone ability

how bout temptest? Small aoe nuke... amazing standalone ability Resonating strike? This could actually be a somewhat decent standalone ability Cripple? Oh a miniscule MS slow... such a good standalone ability

people are just retarded. They insist you could make 2-3 champions with lee sins kit if you took it apart. lmfao

Monsieur Seasalt1 votes

I love you, @hatedaddy

Melledoneus1 votes

Then what do you call a "utility assassin" that has mobility, CC, movement speed buffs, arguably the strongest re-positioning ultimate in the game, and more damage than traditional upfront burst assassins like Kassadin or Talon in lane?

Gee, whiz, I hate to Ekko my ranting about certain champions, but gol-LeeSin some champions have too much. Makes the community... spoiled.

Monsieur Seasalt1 votes

{quoted}

Then what do you call a "utility assassin" that has mobility, CC, movement speed buffs, arguably the strongest re-positioning ultimate in the game, and more damage than traditional upfront burst assassins like Kassadin or Talon in lane?

Gee, whiz, I hate to Ekko my ranting about certain champions, but gol-LeeSin some champions have too much. Makes the community... spoiled.

Kassadin's damage is subpar now and not viable whatsoever. A slow is not hard Cc. Talon is all in and kill things or die. No buts.

Everything about ekko is telegraphed and hugely situational.

Lee sin falls off harder than... Well. He falls off really damn hard in the late game.

Melledoneus1 votes

Talon's damage is less than some tanks until he gets 3-4 items that shred and deal damage. Even then he doesn't burst as fast as many other assassins at that point.

Ekko is telegraphed, yes, but that ultimate makes him the safest mid laner ever. Unless it's a Malzahar or Lissandra ult, he's going to press R and take the heal train back to his ghost, and lord help you if you're standing next to his ghost.

Lee Sin's recent ultimate buffs make him more of a threat late game. Not to mention I didn't really complain about him, he just fit the pun really well.

Monsieur Seasalt3 votes

{quoted}

Talon's damage is less than some tanks until he gets 3-4 items that shred and deal damage. Even then he doesn't burst as fast as many other assassins at that point.

Ekko is telegraphed, yes, but that ultimate makes him the safest mid laner ever. Unless it's a Malzahar or Lissandra ult, he's going to press R and take the heal train back to his ghost, and lord help you if you're standing next to his ghost.

Lee Sin's recent ultimate buffs make him more of a threat late game. Not to mention I didn't really complain about him, he just fit the pun really well.

Talon's burst is actually pretty insane on squish targets which is the idea.

Ekko's ult has a fairly good mana cost now. If you manage to get stuck next to his ghost that's not ekko being op, that's called you not being aware of what's happening in lane.

Lee's late game wasn't particularly buffed significantly at all.

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