Theres a reason those 3 are pick or ban and janna/lulu arent in competitive.
You can actually catch and kill a janna or lulu, the same cant be said about the other 3.
Braum is basically a janna thats also a tank, TK has the most broken protection spell in the game that bypasses EVERYTHING and alistar is just unkillable while being able to engage or just toss you around/prevent any dive.
iPooUnicorns5 votesI don't give a hecking frick about what's good in pro play. Tank supports are better in pro play because their ADC is not an autofill, and they are very mechanically competent, on top of playing with their support enough to have very good synergy regardless of champion.
Janna and Lulu can make a bad/autofilled a non-issue, which is what most people hate.
Rexxiee2 votesI don't give a hecking frick about what's good in pro play. Tank supports are better in pro play because their ADC is not an autofill, and they are very mechanically competent, on top of playing with their support enough to have very good synergy regardless of champion.
Janna and Lulu can make a bad/autofilled a non-issue, which is what most people hate.
Damn right, the game should be balanced around auto fill players, not the best players in the world.
LMAO
iPooUnicorns2 votesSo the game should be balanced around less than .01% of players?
D357R0Y3R2 votespeople are bad that's why they complain about janna because they can't play like pro players
i'm not as good as them, but i don't complain about janna because i know it's my fault
FOR JUSTICE5 votesat least someone gets it though
*has ult up, ready to pop off on the enemy adc* *sees janna nearby and knows damn well what theyre about to do is going to be negated, potentially getting killed too* *goes in anyway*
D357R0Y3R2 votesi don't know who is the "has ult up" in your example but some champions can expload janna without her able to do anything
malphite sion
that's why janna isn't played in pro, they don't play useless bruisers Janna can't do anything against tanks
What is she going to do against a sejuani that Q+ult her followed by team? what is she going to do against malzahar? at least tahm kench is tanky and can save his ally from malz ult
The Sword Saint2 votesComplains about auto fill.
Complains about champions that make auto fill not an auto loss.
iPooUnicorns2 votesThat wasn't the point I was trying to make, Janna & Lulu can make bad ADCs good and good ADCs untouchable.
NemeBro3 votesTheres a reason those 3 are pick or ban and janna/lulu arent in competitive.
You can actually catch and kill a janna or lulu, the same cant be said about the other 3.
Braum is basically a janna thats also a tank, TK has the most broken protection spell in teh game and alistar is just unkillable while being able to engage or just toss you around/prevent any dive.
Those characters resemble something resembling a brain, Janna and Lulu do not.
In solo queue those three champions don't even approach Lulu and Janna's success rate.
Rexxiee5 votesThose characters resemble something resembling a brain, Janna and Lulu do not.
In solo queue those three champions don't even approach Lulu and Janna's success rate.
Braum is like a easier to play janna, since janna has to position herself and braum just presses his wall spell to take like 10% damage lmao.
FOR JUSTICE4 votesmechanically speaking, hes far superior to janna. and more useful in more situations.
he also has to re-position himself to use his q as its blocked by minions, and his ult is a line skillshot. jannas tornado is a line skillshot too, but is pretty much instant cast for a guaranteed disengage, and goes through minions.
D357R0Y3R2 voteshe doesn't have any mechanic wtf are you talking about
incoming ranged damage--->he presses W
incoming melee thread--->autoattacks the melee
chipndip11 votesI mean...no?
If he takes a projectile, the projectile CAN affect people behind him. It's possible to fuck over your adc to aoe cc simply because you caused it to go off on top of both of you, for example.
Also, in order for Braum to lane effectively, he needs to utilize his allied dash, his Q, his melee ranged AAs...a good deal of his kit. Janna just sits around and E's shit. Well...now she W's shit, but still.
Generally, Janna's game play just isn't appreciated, regardless of details, because it's so brain dead and binary for so much gain.
KennysDreamGirl3 votestk braum and ali requires a brain to play.
Step Sis Lux6 votesali and brain? u mean point and click Knock up and then stun on AA + his r that makes him unkillable?xD
Tokogawaruf1 votesYou forgot to meantion they also made the W+Q Combo idiotproof
D357R0Y3R5 votesalistar
brain
lol
KennysDreamGirl1 votesalistar
brain
lol
im only using the champs the op mentioned. i dont think you need a brain to play ali but he isnt as bad as stay in back line and press one button janna or lulu
Slythrin Umbreon3 votesEh, Kench support isn't such a problem. aside from his w, most of his kit is actually fairly weak. He's only a problem when he gets to use nom aggressively, mainly against toplaners where it has pretty much 0 counterplay.
Aptest2 votesTheres a reason those 3 are pick or ban and janna/lulu arent in competitive.
You can actually catch and kill a janna or lulu, the same cant be said about the other 3.
Braum is basically a janna thats also a tank, TK has the most broken protection spell in the game that bypasses EVERYTHING and alistar is just unkillable while being able to engage or just toss you around/prevent any dive.
I challenge you:
put on paper a support champion that you think is fair. BUT: it has to ALSO be something that is fun for the support player to play.
Can you do?
FOR JUSTICE2 votescan I participate? :3
Big Lincoln1 voteswinter wyvern
Aptest3 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fYEthiob,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2018-04-24T19:16:30.541+0000)
winter wyvern
I think you might have a point there. Is this style of play relevant to league of legends though?
EDIT: on second thought I do have a gripe with this design. Winter Wyvern seems to be very punishing VS very specific team compositions. I am not sure if it is fair, in the context of league of legends, to have a champion that "sheperds" you away from this or that composition by the threat of it's presence. This kind of champion will inevitably lord over a very specific enemy strategy/composition, and pay for it's dominance by being otherwise under-performing.
Which will result on you not seeing it ever, because in general it will be balanced to suck, but it will still threaten enough such that the composition that is vulnerable to it will be suppressed, see old support nunu, see old katarina / mr yi vs "no cc teams".
Lauchmelder1 votes
His heal is ok'ish.
His R+W combo is low risk/high reward, but he generally will die unless he can jump out of there again.
KirotheImmortal2 votesBraum requires alot more possitionkng then Lulu and Janna lol. They have in AND out braum doesnt realy have both. one or the other. alister on rwaly has the in. Rakan is actualy a known issue and is complaines about however isnt half as picked as janna.
KirotheImmortal2 votesNami is far from frealo tf are you talkinf about. Maybe if people are braindead about their ignite and not getting mortal reminder. Shes strong but shes not janna strong. Janna will out support a nami any day without using her ult.
NocturnalSheild1 votesNami is far from frealo tf are you talkinf about. Maybe if people are braindead about their ignite and not getting mortal reminder. Shes strong but shes not janna strong. Janna will out support a nami any day without using her ult.
Except she isnt. Nami is beating janna in almost every elo.
Athenes Lulu2 votesenchanters are evil and tanks are the good guys here obviously
NocturnalSheild1 votesNami is better than both janna and lulu and yet no one complains about her.
She even has a higher winrate and almost equivalent play rate.
Like people says they only do good because they are brainless but nami is nowhere near brainless and yet does just as good.
Its almost like its the adcs that are broken and not the class that supports them.
Jbels2 votesNami is better than both janna and lulu and yet no one complains about her.
She even has a higher winrate and almost equivalent play rate.
Like people says they only do good because they are brainless but nami is nowhere near brainless and yet does just as good.
Its almost like its the adcs that are broken and not the class that supports them.
Maybe because Nami requires an actual brain to play while Janna and Lulu toss out spells like they don't mean anything and still find success?
NocturnalSheild1 votesMaybe because Nami requires an actual brain to play while Janna and Lulu toss out spells like they don't mean anything and still find success?
And that matters why? So easy champions should be 40% W/R just cause easy?
I guess that means your okay with hard champions being at 60% W/R because they are hard?
Aptest2 votesPeople don't complain about Nami, despite the fact that she's freelo right now, because people perceive's Nami's kit as having enough skill checks on it, that you can mitigate or avoid a lot of her kit if you out-skill the nami.
This doesn't stop me from landing 3-man bubbles and spamming my QW in team fights, but at least the guy on the other side "feels" he can press his "outplay this" button and go into ADC-killing mode.
In addition to that nami with her smaller heal and less "this ADC shall live" powers and more general utility feels like she is a general purpose opponent, rather than a hard-counter. That is to say you get to develop your own game play and she gets to interfere, rather than you don't get your game play unless you can bait her to be somewhere else. And the fact that she has a more universal kit, means that she actually goes to that somewhere else rather than sticking by the guy you want to kill and make that person not on the menu.
FOR JUSTICE2 votesthe problem people have with janna being that she can press r and pretty much negate any attempt at killing someone. nami does the same, yes, but requires some amount of actual thought, and its theoretically possible to miss the disengage.
but then again, people insist on fighting head on anyway, so..........
Arammus1 voteswhos tk?
FOR JUSTICE3 votes--> 
<-- that guy
basically he can just eat an ally as a free oopsies button whilst simultaneously being almost impossible to kill with that huge shield. then he gets decent damage scaling with how impossible he is to kill. its cringe.
SwiftKitten881 votes-->
basically he can just eat an ally as a free oopsies button whilst simultaneously being almost impossible to kill with that huge shield. then he gets decent damage scaling with how impossible he is to kill. its cringe.
honestly he is absurd... i have said it since release, but no one seemed to notice it until now
i even had even a game a couple days ago where the enemy went mid (this this is AFTER the most recent double nerfs) and was completely unstoppable
the nerfs didnt do jack shit
The Sword Saint1 votestahm kench
Arammus2 votesahhhh... i only call him tahm... or frog... or when my friend plays him i call him "i swear to god if you bring me into the enemy team im going to quit :("
chipndip11 votesJanna is (or was before the nerfing continued) in competitive. She was the only Enchanter that was, save very occasional Karma play, and she was picked fairly often for a non-Warden/not Rakan champ. As of now, I'm not sure cause I haven't been looking, but before the split ended she was still seeing pro play.