So completely 100% sick of cho gath

Divewing··9 votes·1,452 views

I have no other solution to this monstrosity other than to ban him, 1 single game today where he isnt banned, and he is picked by the enemy. I think, ah well its not too bad, I have Ekko so I have out play potential, besides, I'm probably over exaggerating a bit. Nope. I cannot out play it. He hits me with 1 single silence and/or Q and I am a goner, meanwhile I have to somehow dodge all of it, and land my stun to have any hope of procing my passive, and even when I do, it only chunks him for 1/12th of his HP.

Throughout the game this was frustrating me alot, and with the Leona sitting on my ass all the freaking time, I gave up on trying to hit a big stun and looked for picks instead. Blah blah blah game ends etc etc etc, and out of curiosity I look at damage dealt to champions. I had the highest at about 53 000, and to my disgust and horror, I saw that the RoA into full tank cho gath had dealt 150 LESS DAMAGE THAN ME.

Now I get that Ekko isn't exactly LeBlanc tier burst, BUT ON WHAT PLANET IS IT OK FOR THE MEGA TANK TO OUT DAMAGE BOTH THE ADC (Ashe ) AND THE AP MID (Orianna ) WHILST PROVIDING MORE CC AND UTILITY THAN BOTH OF THEM?!??!??!?!??! Also don't give me the: Q is hard to hit. Ezreal Q is hard to hit. Vel Koz Q is hard to hit. Cho gath's Q is mildy annoying to hit, but with a slow on Scream (deals damage silences and HAS to slow too, ok.....) it's not hard.

Now to provide something at least somewhat constructive, my take on how to make him balanced: 1) ratio nerfs (to keep utility there) 2) REMOVE SILENCE'S SLOW. I cannot use anything, I want to at least be able to run thank you very much Do note: I do not care about Ekko's balance in regards to this, in fact it actually assists my point, so please dont bother leaving anything to do with it. Cho Gath talk please.

20 Comments

TeemoJenkins6 votes

I'm sorry... an Ekko complaining about the range and damage of Cho's silence? You can literally stand back and Q all day.... and his only answer is to pop you up, which has a smaller radius than your W so you could wait for him to W, kite, W, E, Q, ULT and he'd be stunned and dead... Ekko's kit is literally a counter to every aspect of Cho's kit.

Getting out played isn't a reason to ask for nerfs to a champ.

You also neglect to mention that the entire enemy team was fed to the gills... so any of them could've blasted you down. Except you're Ekko, so you can still 1v1 any of them.

Tsohgder3 votes

Ezreal Q is hard to hit.

hah

Terff3 votes

the scream doesnt slow... but w/e

JJI7442 votes

So, three things.

First good news: Riot has already said they are taking a look at Cho's damage ratios, as they think he may be capable of doing a bit too much damage given his tankiness/sustain/utility. But this is likely to be after that AP item rework is implemented and settles down, so don't expect to see it right away.

Second, a correction: Unless he has a Rylia's, Cho's silence does not slow, the knockup has a slow attached, not the silence.

Third, a theory. I (annoyingly) have no way of checking this, but I would be willing to bet that Thornmail was a considerable portion of cho's damage output. Its a "cheap" damage item in that it can cause a lot of damage not tied to your champion directly.

Meep Man2 votes

Riot says they like Cho'Gath's current position as an "Assassin Check" for Middle Lane, meaning he doesnt allow them to get too crazy since it has been proven that in the past Assassin's usually make the community extremely upset so a champion to stop this is good. They have said they might reduce some his damage ratios however since he "Assassin Checks" mainly with his crowd control.

Drunk Rummate2 votes

Just kill him with poke. Any champion that can fight him from outside his silence range destroys chogath.

FuzziestPickle1 votes

I had 381 move speed on mordekaiser and still couldn't run out of cho's Q range if he put it with me in the center. item 3070

3TWarrior1 votes

chogath has been almost completely untouched in years. no one complained about him during the assassin meta because he would die instantly, same with the carry meta. he finally has his time to shine because he can't be deleted instantly

as for balance issues, his damage is a little high, but if you change his kit any, it will really hurt his overall game performance.

he's actually a perfect example of what a tank should be: crowd control, first and foremost, then tanky, finally burst damage

other tanks that do this: amumu(who is a chogath counter), gragas(who was/is (idk since I don't visit these sites but its what others have said) 80% ban rate and 100% pick rate in professional play; sejuani (her damage isnt' immediate, but she can slow you almost indefinitely, has a twitch/kalista-like ability and an AOE stun. what's more, she can face tank, something chogath isn't smart to do.

singed: this guy is not what a tank should be...he runs AWAY from the enemies and has 2 forms of minor crowd control. his damage may be high while they're chasing, but a tank is not supposed to run away and is supposed to deal damage

let's take a look at the roles:

squishies: AP Carry; Marksman; Assassin

AP Carry: does large amounts of burst damage but has low sustained damage and typically low mobility (EX: the many assassins out there, but even some of them have way more than they should, fought a diana who could facetank 1k critical hits while still deleting any target and I think she had like 4k hp...)

AD Carry: large amounts of sustained damage over a range with versatile abilities to make them the high priority target but in exchange for their damage, are typically the easiest to delete

assassin: extremely squishy target with insane burst damage or rapid burst damage, yet some of the "squishy" targets are very difficult to take out. Zed for instance, the guy doesn't even need tankiness when he can harrass you from complete safety and make himself untargetable for 2 seconds

medium roles: fighter, support

support: typically most supports do not have high damage but can make up for it with crowd control, tankiness and sometimes one high-damage ability. Thresh for instance, typically built very tanky, can have very large burst damage and insane harrass with his area denial abilities (other examples include blitzcrank, etc) whose primary roles were created as tanks and fighters, but were later found to have better use as supports

fighter: the all or nothing character, can be built tanky, high sustained damage, high burst damage, typically low range or one long range ability

ex: shyvana: an all in fighter with a large amount of tankiness in exchange for her damage, but still deals reasonable amounts of damage. she has an auto attack reset to increase her damage output and deals damage over time while all-inning the enemy

ex: mundo: typically built tanky, dr mundo thrives on enemies' inability to kill him. He deals high burst damage on his Q, medium sustained damage on his W and medium sustained damage from his E. he trades his damage capabilities for the ability to stick to his target and harrass them as he "pleases"

the tanks tank: as I mentioned: crowd control, high burst damage and tankiness(typically long cooldowns).

ex: darius: high burst damage, low range, high durability when built tanky and low ranged

Ex: garen: extremely tanky with large amounts of burst damage but melee ranged

ex: rammus: trades most of his damage (a mistake) for multiple forms of crowd control, high mobility and the highest armor rating in the game

if anything, I think all this proves is that riot needs to redesign their other champs so they can fit their roles. Someone posted that Ekko was being used as a tanky bruiser because of his multiple forms of crowd control, engage potential, reset button ult and the strongest shield in the game(even though it only lasts 2 seconds) while having high AP ratios for his mage-level abilities (which as a tank you can easily get 500 ap)

AsphodelNext1 votes

{quoted}

( ...as a tank you can easily get 500 ap)

Man, I need to know what that item build looks like... I want 500 AP Cho'gath... Don't see how you can do it with only 80 AP items; you'd need to dip into a pure offensive item, like Deathcap, and then get like both RoA and Rylai's and probably a 3rd AP item, leaving you only 2 slots for boots and resistances.

3TWarrior1 votes

2 ROA, 1 deathcap, 1 zhonya's 1 spirit visage, boots of choice

it's not the tankiest, but it gives him like 4500 hp(at max ult stacks level 3) I think and 520 AP +

the new ap changes might throw the math a little, but you get 35% bonus AP from the listed deathcap changes now

AsphodelNext1 votes

{quoted}

2 ROA, 1 deathcap, 1 zhonya's 1 spirit visage, boots of choice

it's not the tankiest, but it gives him like 4500 hp(at max ult stacks level 3) I think and 520 AP +

the new ap changes might throw the math a little, but you get 35% bonus AP from the listed deathcap changes now

2 RoA? Damn, you play some long games... Why not Rylai's instead of second RoA? You don't really need the mana anymore, and the slow on autos is great. Also, when do you grab SV/Zhonya's? Cause I feel like you have very low resistances for a tank.

I typically go RoA, boots, two health/resistance items, and then maybe a damage item before finishing with a situational resistance/more damage. I tend to pick up Abyssal if I need damage instead of Deathcap, since I don't go 2 RoA. Feel like since Cho gets so much bonus health, it's better to build more resistances on him instead of just health stacking, but I do sometimes get Warmog's/SV just for the healing.

3TWarrior1 votes

well, that build was originally made for Zac so he could chunk 20% of your max hp at a time with his W

typically I build chogath glass cannon, but I might build him off-tank soon

the reason is that Rod of Ages adds more mana. you can switch it to rylai's if you want, but when you get in range to auto as chogath(other than laning phase), you are doing something wrong

650 mana is a lot for him to have considering how much he needs to spam to poke at the enemy team that's afraid to engage him

I think the main issue though is that it's cheap and more health, but there's not really any difference between the builds because a good chogath is going to hit you anyway and his slow is already devastating, why add 15% more?

btw, this is an end-game build, it doesn' thave any order, but the best order is probably ROA, deathcap then whatever you want

AsphodelNext1 votes

Every time you ban Cho'gath, a little Void monster child has his dreams of growing big crushed.

Don't crush dreams. Don't ban Cho'gath.

Seriously though, I've mained Cho for like 3 years, and I haven't played him in draft in weeks. Your ban solution seems to be working just fine.

Btw, Cho'gath is hard counter to Ekko, much like other melee assassins like Zed, Talon, Akali etc. So that's probably why you're having trouble. Try somebody ranged, like Gnar or Nidalee, or a tanky top laner like Nasus who doesn't even care if he can't kill Cho'gath as long as he can stack up. Top lane mages are also good against Cho e.g. Cassiopeia, Azir, etc.

Divewing1 votes

It's not the matchup I'm concerned about, it's moreso that he nearly outdamaged me. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend Assassins shouldn't have counters, and I am prepared to deal with someone I cannot and will not kill because of counters, but when the enemy tank with mega CC out damages his whole team......

Provengreil1 votes

CHo mid is less tank and more AP burst bruiser. and yes, tanks and bruisers counter assassins quite well. everything is working as intended here.

ScurvyNave1 votes

It's dangerous to go alone take this: item 3153

Seriosuly %hp damage fucks cho over easily.

BakedLotion1 votes

You dont get to complain if u play ekko

TheI3igDaddy1 votes

I was about to say, who are you facing Cho with? Then I read Ekko, and I laughed real hard.

Cho counters assassins with no innate sustain. Of course he's going to silence you and prevent you from doing anything, and along with his Leona locking you down, you're a fish out of water.

Oh, and you're a moron to top it off. His silence has no slow attached to it, Rupture does. After the knock-up, you're slowed for the next second or so. The fact that his QW combo makes it seem like the silence has the slow, but it doesn't. Learn about the champs you're facing, yeah?

straight4free1 votes

cho is pemaban for a reason. Eventually he'll get what's coming to him.

Divewing1 votes

Feel like the serious point is being missed her. THE ENEMY TANK, DEALT ALMOST AS MUCH AS THE AP ASSASSIN MID. ^WHY IS THIS SHIT OK????!??!?!??!?!

More from Gameplay

More by Divewing