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PSA: If an ally is doing well and you're not, don't steal their kills

ValyrianBlade··6 votes·936 views

It always annoys me when I'm playing a game, doing fine in lane but can't quite get the kills (constantly making him back and his CS is poor and I have a level lead, but he's playing so cautiously I can't get snowballing). Meanwhile my other two lanes are both dying repeatedly. So I start roaming to where people are clearly playing more aggressive, and the guys who are dying steal all of the kills.

The number of games where every other champion on the map is losing and my score is like 0/0/7 is atrocious. I can't carry you with 7 assists. Total score is 9-7 for them and I'm 0/0/7. I need some gold to be able to deal with the guys that are clearly better than you when teamfights start...

Needless to say, I lose pretty much every one of these games. Yet there are plenty of games where the total score is 9-7 and I'm 6/0/1 and I win those games. Does anyone else get the same feeling? Or do people really think you should give the kills and try to let them catch up? I feel like if you lost at 0/0 you're going to lose again at 2/3 or something...

23 Comments

oSEXYPLATYPUSo5 votes

or if you are doing well and ahead a player is struggling give them a kill it makes them get more gold and experience and can help them catch up and just maybe it changes their mindset of the game and boost their confidence and they play better

WinTheWarOnPants1 votes

this^, but it obviously depends. sometimes you get that one teammate that is so bad that you want to keep him from being worth killing anymore. otherwise it's good to spread the exp and gold to your teammates. i actually have kinda the opposite problem though. I sometimes don't hold back enough and forget to sup my teamates and feed them as much as i should.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

well that kinda comes with roles played and mindset of roles ...

see im a support main... who plays tanky cc utility champs top and jungle when i dont play support

and i like utility adcs when i adc like ASHE,

so im come from the mindset of doing whats best for team to win and to "support " team

maybe you come from a different play style

WinTheWarOnPants1 votes

I'm a jg main. Sup's sup the adc and jgs sup everyone. If you want to win then you're mindset should always be "what's best for the team". what i meant earlier about not holding back is i am an Eve main so i will always take early kills if i can so that i can get through Her early game ASAP. however, sometimes i forget my job is supping my team and go off killing everyone. when i remember to help my team and get them fed games go much smoother. OP talks about losing cause you're 0/0/7 and can't carry, but it's just as frustrating when you're 24/2/8 and lose because the rest of your team isn't strong enough. i'm getting better about it, but it's just something i need to work on.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

well eve has to snowball early or she is worthless might as well play 4 vs 5

but you get my point and i understand yours

WinTheWarOnPants1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

DeathBurst1 votes

As you said, that's another option, but it's a bet anyway, there is no "correct" choice. Personally, I agree with OP, I'd be more willing to bet on the guy that is already ahead than on the guy who is behind. Maybe the guy who is behind can get back in the game, maybe not, but no one can tell for sure.

Commit Sudoku2 votes

better to spread the gold to the whole team if you are doing well so it isnt just on you to win games tbh

ValyrianBlade1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Commit Sudoku,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fKRaYG1n,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-10-23T15:27:01.198+0000)

better to spread the gold to the whole team if you are doing well so it isnt just on you to win games tbh

I agree if we're talking in the situation of mid-late game and I'm already up like 5 kills or something.

What I'm saying though is I haven't started yet. I'm 0/0/0 or 0/0/1 because my opponent is playing so cautiously. My lead is all in CS and levels. Meanwhile both other lanes are down kills. So I roam to get the kills, only for the guys that are behind to take them. So now I just gave up the huge pressure I had on my lane opponent but it should be worthwhile because I got 2 kills for it - only my teammates took the kills, reset their gold-value (and they just die again) and I'm not getting ahead at all.

I agree entirely that late game having one fed guy is a terrible idea. As soon as he's dead it's game over. Early game though, I think you should let the guy who's playing well actually start snowballing. Give him a chance to get you back in it. If he can make you win a teamfight, you'll no doubt start getting kills there.

KłedGod1 votes

I think if its late game and you have full items let that man have a kill. Your KD won't mean much if that person can't do damage or help in any way with no items.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yung Hulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fKRaYG1n,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-10-23T15:29:36.598+0000)

I think if its late game and you have full items let that man have a kill. Your KD won't mean much if that person can't do damage or help in any way with no items.

I agree late game. I'm specifically talking early game (e.g. laning phase). If I'm giving up pressure in my lane to save you in yours, the least you could do is not flash to take a kill from me. It's only going to reset your gold value and prevent me from snowballing like I'm probably capable of.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

its not kill stealing , its kill securing

KłedGod1 votes

Flashing in is to much for me. If it comes down to me or you dying though I wont die just so a person can get a kill. Then the gold doesn't really matter because we got no advantage over that trade.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yung Hulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fKRaYG1n,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2016-10-23T16:07:57.391+0000)

Flashing in is to much for me. If it comes down to me or you dying though I wont die just so a person can get a kill. Then the gold doesn't really matter because we got no advantage over that trade.

Yea I agree. I don't consider it to be a stolen kill if it just happens as a normal course of battle. Like, you're damaging the opponent, no one has ownership over it.

I consider a stolen kill to be any case where the enemy is definitely dead anyways and you blow a summoner/ultimate to get it for yourself. Or if you intentionally don't use an ability until it can finish them when you could have used that cooldown to supply damage earlier in the engage. The latter case not being as bad - but still in the context of this post being silly as your ally is the one who would do better with the gold.

Prison AnaI1 votes

the only time i get salty in those situations is when im on a champion i know i can carry as. If im playing yasuo, my favourite champion, and im winning lane but not killing people and the entire team is feeding just give me the kills

ff4sk1 votes

I mean if your lane opponent is being cautious then you ask for your jng to come help you dive him.

I don't know about kills being stolen from you in teamfights but if I'm jungling I'm not trying to risk the enemy getting away and waiting for my laner to either get the kill or fuck up. I never really actively try to take kills myself but the way I see it the kill itself doesn't matter as much as the cs and time you receive while your lane opponent is dead.

My job is to kill the enemy, enemy died? good. enemy lived? then I wasted time in that lane and I've just been put behind because I put my trust in the laner to finish the job themselves.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

I mean if your lane opponent is being cautious then you ask for your jng to come help you dive him.

I don't know about kills being stolen from you in teamfights but if I'm jungling I'm not trying to risk the enemy getting away and waiting for my laner to either get the kill or fuck up. I never really actively try to take kills myself but the way I see it the kill itself doesn't matter as much as the cs and time you receive while your lane opponent is dead.

My job is to kill the enemy, enemy died? good. enemy lived? then I wasted time in that lane and I've just been put behind because I put my trust in the laner to finish the job themselves.

Yea I agree. Although a lot of opponents you do not want to tower dive. E.g. a viktor is a tough guy to dive since he has such a high amount of burst that he'll probably take one or both of you down with him.

As for securing versus stealing: yes, securing is always fine. Never a problem with a Lee taking a kill from a Vayne when it's in the context of a fight. When a 30hp Jinx that already used her flash is in the middle of bot-lane running away, a full-mana Ahri that used her Q to start the engage and is coming back up soon is standing almost directly on top of her, and then your ADC flashes to get the last hit - that's a kill steal. A really stupid one, because he's now flashless and dies to the Jinx 2 minutes later and makes my roam pointless, all-the-while I never got the gold I needed to snowball and deal with the other fed champions on the map.

I also agree that shutting down that lane opponent is more important than your lane ally getting a kill in most cases. However someone doing well needs to get the kills if there's an opponent getting a lot of kills. E.g. if the enemy top laner is getting fed, you need to get your mid laner fed. Your top obviously can't handle him. Your bot lane will be out leveled by 2+ so they can't do it unless they're extremely fed. Your mid is your only real chance at containing the guy (or a very strong team effort).

Amelie1 votes

I don't think you can call it "stealing kills" if you are roaming with the intention of helping your teammates out, and they get the kill. I personally think it's your own fault if you, with the CS/level lead, can't last-hit your opponent.

They don't "owe" you the kills for roaming... this is what makes enemies escape with 30hp, or you die under turret trying to secure that final hit and put your team further behind. You don't always have to snowball/carry.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you can call it "stealing kills" if you are roaming with the intention of helping your teammates out, and they get the kill. I personally think it's your own fault if you, with the CS/level lead, can't last-hit your opponent.

They don't "owe" you the kills for roaming... this is what makes enemies escape with 30hp, or you die under turret trying to secure that final hit and put your team further behind. You don't always have to snowball/carry.

No, I mean literally stealing kills.

Like I'm well within range to use an ability that will kill them and it's still got 0.5 seconds on cooldown and they flash to "secure" the kill. Or same scenario and they use their ultimate to secure the kill when it really wasn't needed and that ulti would have been more valuable to have available. Or they use another summoner to get it (e.g. heal for MS to get in range for the last auto, etc...). Or all else aside, they stop damaging the opponent they know is dead so they can get the last hit. That's the worst.

I mean, I don't think you can call it my fault for roaming and helping to secure a kill. No, I'll admit I'm not intentionally trying to get the last hit on every one of these kills. I don't mind if they don't all go my way. I never have a problem with being 3/0/4 versus 6/0/1. When you're repeatedly ganking the same lane and your ally ALWAYS gets the kill though - it's pretty apparent that it's intentional, and when he turns around and dies with his reset gold counter right away it makes for a sucky game.

Amelie1 votes

If you have teammates who are wasting ults/summoners to secure a kill that doesn't need securing, you are already gonna have a bad time. Sounds like the type who will ragequit because they lost lane, someone took "their" kill, or simply make stupid plays repeatedly. Either way, even if you got those few more kills, you most likely lose the game.

Anyway, that kind of situation sucks for sure, but it may still be the 'best' scenario with those types of players. At least they will probably still play rather than afk...

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

An enemy Syndra thought like you. After she wiped the floor with me mid and took like 90% of the kills early game, we grouped, took solitary picks on her teammates, and shared the gold. We eventually found her caught out and killed her.

The rest of her underfed teammates were easy to take care of after that, leading to an ace, which lead to us taking them several towers behind and eventually winning.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

An enemy Syndra thought like you. After she wiped the floor with me mid and took like 90% of the kills early game, we grouped, took solitary picks on her teammates, and shared the gold. We eventually found her caught out and killed her.

The rest of her underfed teammates were easy to take care of after that, leading to an ace, which lead to us taking them several towers behind and eventually winning.

I'm explicitly talking about early game, not all game.

I entirely agree and understand that sharing kills come mid-game is important because you need gold on allies so they can survive if you happen to get caught.

In the early game though, it's a completely different story. I mean, which situation would you prefer:

Enemy: Top: 1/2/4 Jungle: 4/1/3 Mid: 0/1/0 ADC: 4/3/2 Supp: 0/1/6

Allied 1: Top: 2/2/2 Jungle: 2/1/2 Mid: 0/0/7 ADC: 4/5/0 Supp: 0/1/4

or Allied 2: Top: 1/2/3 Jungle: 1/1/3 Mid: 5/0/2 ADC: 1/5/0 Supp: 0/1/4

Allied 1 is basically a feeding ADC (who's getting kills due to mid's roams that keep resetting his kill gold). They have no answer to the enemy ADC or jungle. Sure top and mid are doing fine, but the enemy team has got a fairly sizeable lead starting up.

Allied 2 has a fed mid laner to deal with the enemy ADC and then some. Take the ADC out and the mid laner can easily give the 4 kills over to the rest of the team in mid-game teamfights. Allied 1 is losing those mid game teamfights 5 for 1 or 2.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Well of it's early game I suppose mid could use the kills more becuase they can easily blow up ADCs and could carry through midgame.

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