"low elo QQ is like the wind, always by my side"

Ahristocats·Sep 6, 2016·68 votes·3,058 views

change yasuo's selection quote to this.

i can't possibly imagine how many players rage about yasuo for things that don't even exist. Tank yasuo is bs and riot fixed it. Yasuo's ulti bug is bs and i agree that riot not willing to fixe it is bs.

but not yasuo's ulti cooldown, riven's ulti cd was nerfed because at lvl 6 it gives 20% more ad, 100 range, and an execute spell that does a lot of damage. that's not what yasuo's ulti does, his ulti is going to only do 200 damage until he has crit in the next patch, it doesn't matter that the cooldown is short.

then there is the "windwall anti-fun", "nerf yasuo i don't care if he is underpowered he is just frustrating"

No , it's not because YOU find it frustrating that riot should nerf it, i never played yasuo in my life, and yet i don't call yasuo to be nerfed due to "frustration" in fact, i can't possibly imagine the number of time i destroyed him every time i was against him.

downvote this as much as you want, but this is still true, and i'm so glad for once that riot doesn't listen to you.

100 Comments

MarshbouySep 6, 20169 votes

Completely agree. Riven and yasuo ults are very different things and his ultimate cooldown is not even close to the actual issues at hand.

AhristocatsSep 6, 201611 votes

riven pressing R has not even close the same consequences as yasuo pressing R.

Dextix LTSep 6, 20167 votes

Yes, yasuo gets a better deal out of it, at least currently.

Best princess EUSep 6, 20167 votes

200 damage, no armor pene in the next patch in early game

meanwhile riven has an AD steroid, range increased on spells+AA, and get 300 damage

Not xPekeSep 6, 20165 votes

And you forget the important detail of a knockup, or an even extended knockup if followed up on a teammates ability.

At least if you're gonna state facts, state ALL of them.

And the CC it offers does make a big impact, especially if on multiple targets.

Yasuo's ult is not weak at all, and yes just face it, it's cooldown IS low.

Penguin EclipseSep 6, 20168 votes

Being able to destroy him doesn't mean his windwall isn't BS. There is no reason a midlane fighter/assassin should have one of the strongest non-ult forms of utility in the game. That doesn't mean he is OP but it is poor champion design and it doesn't take a certain elo to see that.

AhristocatsSep 6, 20166 votes

there is indeed a reason, to not make him feast or famine.

his windwall is 90% of the time badly used that i never realise it's bs.

Penguin EclipseSep 6, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fFAPIhyk,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-09-06T17:20:16.250+0000)

there is indeed a reason, to not make him feast or famine.

his windwall is 90% of the time badly used that i never realise it's bs.

If his windwall is needed to prevent him from being feast/famine then again he is poorly designed. There is no reason a champion of his role/playstyle should have or need an ability like that.

AhristocatsSep 6, 20167 votes

and that's why i'm glad riot doesn't listen to you

yasuo is a melee carry, melee carry needs protection spells because they're MELEE, certainlyt even did a global thread on it that was avaible in the client when yasuo was released, windwall is a protection spells that is also unique for yasuo to use.

then guess what, the wall moves , and that changes things a lot.

Penguin EclipseSep 6, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fFAPIhyk,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-06T17:29:21.600+0000)

and that's why i'm glad riot doesn't listen to you

yasuo is a melee carry, melee carry needs protection spells because they're MELEE, certainlyt even did a global thread on it that was avaible in the client when yasuo was released, windwall is a protection spells that is also unique for yasuo to use.

CertainlyT has done a lot of things. Like go out of his way to protect his poorly designed creations one after another. He doesn't have the best track record. Zyra and Darius have already been reworked. Thresh has been nerfed into the ground but remains the most picked support for 4 years in a row because of his overloaded kit. Kalista has been an abomination since release and currently sits in trash tier because Riot doesn't know how to make her workable. And then there is Yasuo.

Sure protection spells are necessary. But Windwall is a full blown utility spell that goes well beyond being a protection spell. If Yasuo had been designed better he wouldn't need one of the most powerful utility spells in the game.

then guess what, the wall moves , and that changes things a lot.

By the time that wall moves enough to change things both Yasuo and his opponents will have already changes positions by a considerable distance. Assuming that even matters as whatever spell/s his opponent used is now on CD.

AhristocatsSep 6, 20165 votes

Thresh isn't the most picked support, get over thresh already because he is mostly trash now with 46% win rate in soloQ (before his last buff, let's see what will happen with that ulti cd buff)

overall, the only abomination that certainlyt did to be called like that and deserve to be deleted is kalista and i can't get how riot accepted the champ to be released.

about yasuo, his windwall is a full blown utility spell bcause i told you, a melee carry without utility is trash @yi @tryndamere

Dextix LTSep 6, 20162 votes

Aye, now are they able to protect their entire teams and delete even ultimate abilities with their protections? No.

But yasuo can.

LimrickSep 6, 20162 votes

Thresh is weak, but he still has the highest play rate of any support.

http://champion.gg/champion/Thresh

HateDaddySep 7, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Penguin Eclipse,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fFAPIhyk,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-06T17:50:33.640+0000)

CertainlyT has done a lot of things. Like go out of his way to protect his poorly designed creations one after another. He doesn't have the best track record. Zyra and Darius have already been reworked. Thresh has been nerfed into the ground but remains the most picked support for 4 years in a row because of his overloaded kit. Kalista has been an abomination since release and currently sits in trash tier because Riot doesn't know how to make her workable. And then there is Yasuo.

Sure protection spells are necessary. But Windwall is a full blown utility spell that goes well beyond being a protection spell. If Yasuo had been designed better he wouldn't need one of the most powerful utility spells in the game.

By the time that wall moves enough to change things both Yasuo and his opponents will have already changes positions by a considerable distance. Assuming that even matters as whatever spell/s his opponent used is now on CD.

I wouldn't call CertainlyT a bad designer, I'd blame the rest of the designers for releasing bland garbage that all plays the same. Only recently has Riot gotten better at that in general.

Dextix LTSep 7, 20161 votes

There have been many unique and interesting champs released from other creators. Guess what, none of them are inherently broken in their kits.

CertainlyT is a bad designer in consideration of game balance, because he cannot create balanced champions in any way.

HateDaddySep 7, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fFAPIhyk,comment-id=0005000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-09-07T20:04:25.466+0000)

There have been many unique and interesting champs released from other creators. Guess what, none of them are inherently broken in their kits.

CertainlyT is a bad designer in consideration of game balance, because he cannot create balanced champions in any way.

Are you sure about that? Because many of these champions have still been reworked during different class reworks.

Honestly, anyone who hates yasuo probably plays mid or ranged champions in general and they're mad they can't beat a melee champion just by clicking on him

Dextix LTSep 8, 20161 votes

Many reworked champions have old kits that are outdated. The "reworks" in consideration of classes were not made to fix broken things, but to enforce certain champion niches and uniqueness.

Let us see what CertainlyT created or helped to create.

Darius - A champion that was broken for long and had only 1 counterplay, Do not get close. His whole kit was oppressive, and even after rework it was oppressive, it was fixed only by properly nerfing his numbers.

Kalista - The biggest cancer of the league that has to have to be kept down in shit status because otherwise she is broken because of her kit.

Yasuo - Overloaded champion that while being a damage dealer has the BEST defensive utility in the game while also having insane mobility and damage. He had to be nerfed to shit tier not too long ago too,before getting buffed and becoming oppresive yet again, because of his overloaded kit.

Thresh - For the longest of times he was the BEST support in the game. He was the most popular and used support for a long time, why? Because his support kit offers too many tools. He is lacking only a good heal. Again, another overloaded champion.

Mordekaiser rework - He was the one who decided that mordekaiser should be a bot laner, we all know how that turned out. It turned out shit. Again, Morde was having an unfair kit by getting unfair exp boosts that allowed him to snowball, not because of skill, but because of an unfair ability. This had to be fixed and thankfully was fixed by other people.

The only balanced and non-overloaded champ that CertainlyT has created, is zyra, and she was one of the first ones. His kits and their overloading got worse and worse with every champion. He creates kits and champions that are fun to play, but hell to play against.

Such champions as Azir, Tahm, Bard, Illaoi, Kled, show that you can have unique and fun champions without giving them broken kits.

CertianlyT is a good designer in consideration of creativity, but he is complete crap in consideration of game balance and counterplay. He should be allowed only to create concepts, that is all.

GULAG 4 USep 8, 20161 votes

Azir is not broken? What the fuck?

Mandang0Sep 8, 20161 votes

CT focuses too much on how fun champs are to play and disregards how it feels to play against the champ.

I personally miss the early champion designs before every champ had to be at least decent at everything.

Dextix LTSep 6, 20162 votes

Okay, melle carries need protection spells. I get that, olaf, tryndamere, yi, fiora, all of the have it. But they are personal skills. Unlke yasuo who can protect the whole damn team if he wishes.

GULAG 4 USep 6, 20166 votes

"I cannot play around a skill htat has a 26 seconds cooldown on a chmapion that gets no mr per level w00t!"

Dextix LTSep 6, 20163 votes

And how do you play around it? Bait it? Against a good yasuo, you wont do it. He will always block something.

Go around it? Yea, you get close to him, good luck surviving.

Wait for it to go down? Alright, but you already burned your spells, so what?

Giga KahunaSep 6, 20166 votes

how to counter wind wall, implying you're ziggs / someone similiar

throw q if he blocks q, throw your garbage at him after he throws out wall if not, do not throw your garbage at him, instead go back to step 1

repeat until yas is too low to stay in lane, cs, get lead

GULAG 4 USep 6, 20169 votes

"Wait for it to go down? Alright, but you already burned your spells, so what?"

Implying you just threw your entire combo into his wall?

I need to say more about this?

Vellich0rSep 6, 20164 votes

If you blew your entire combo on his windwall, that was good play on his part, or bad play on your own.

GULAG 4 USep 7, 20162 votes

LimrickSep 6, 20162 votes

You do realize that Yasuo wouldn't be able to even exist in midlane without Wind Wall, right? I just think the animation and hitbox need to be consistent with one another, but the spell itself is fine.

FelvyneSep 6, 20166 votes

I hate Yasuo's powerspike at lvl2, and how dominates me in early levels. But that's my problem and I have to improve to overcome it, not cry asking for nerfs. League players had done it with several annoying champions (Trynda, Yi, Fizz, etc) and it's part of improving. People often forgots they aren't the center of the universe.

GULAG 4 USep 6, 20162 votes

But bronze 7 players must qq instead of gitting gud

CeexSettSep 6, 20166 votes

And then downvote people who tell them to git gud because that is offensive and you shouldn't bring ranks to a discussion, because that is also offensive.

NineTailedMysticSep 7, 20162 votes

With the stigma it brings in this community, it kind of is.

Vistha KaiSep 6, 20165 votes

Actually there's another hidden nerf.

His ult will also deal less damage, because the armor penetration buff will only affect critical strikes, which his ult is not.

Why is is important? Because currently his ult is affected by the penetration buff.

May not affect his early a lot, but considering Last Breath's damage isn't that spectacular to begin with, the difference later will most likely be quite noticeable. Considering Yasuo's "intended" playstyle had 48.5% winrate before the bugfix, I suspect it being even lower after the patch.

Snowball4uSep 6, 20164 votes

wait if they fixed tank yas, what are people building now? Im pretty sure PD, FM, IE, then tnak is still considered tanky.

GULAG 4 USep 6, 20163 votes

A) His only source of mr will be from ga so mages will delete him

B) Has to build more damage

AhristocatsSep 6, 20161 votes

i also forgot that yasuo doesn't have mr/lvl.

Snowball4uSep 6, 20162 votes

but he does have mr per level

u know the tank runes u take! :)

Tank MasochistSep 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

A) His only source of mr will be from ga so mages will delete him

B) Has to build more damage

The issue with yasuo recently has been that no, he does NOT need to build damage because of his lovely crit passive. So he builds that awesome item called frozen mallet to ensure that escaping him is as impossible as catching him through a minion wave. All the while thats happening he's getting fervor/grasp procs left and right, critting you, penetrating armor with his ult and with almost 3k hp plus a 300-500 damage shield you aint doing anything to him.

This reminds me of when Rengar was meta and everyone was up in arms to nerf him to take away his invisibility etc etc. Now we're getting a Rengar rework. The difference with yasuo is that as a result of this damned build his weaknesses are negated. Same think tank ekko. People play them optimally, unfortunately optimally is neither intended, or balanced in this case.

Papa SlothySep 6, 20162 votes

it's not really the crit, it's how efficiently and quickly he can stack fervor

Backup4nowSep 6, 20164 votes

I disagree. While he may be balanced and beatable (ignoring the bug), he's still pretty fucking annoying to face and I would call for nerfs not for balance reasons, but for getting him the hell out of my games. The outcome of the fight is completely up to him. That's what really frustrates me: a lot of times I see him win a fight because of how many options he has, no matter how poorly he uses them. Feels like i'm being cheated whenever he performs well, feels like he's just a fucking potato if he doesn't.

Diamond 5 here.

GULAG 4 USep 7, 20161 votes

except balancing is nerfing op stuff and not annoying stuff.

Backup4nowSep 8, 20161 votes

Tell that to urgot, pre-rework yorick, pre-rework poppy, and pre-rework evelynn. Also pre-rework twitch.

GULAG 4 USep 8, 20161 votes

So what?

Backup4nowSep 8, 20161 votes

Those characters were nerfed far below the line of ranked viability not because of how overpowered they were, but how riot deemed their playstyles to be too toxic and they wanted people to not play those characters. I think, at the time before their reworks, eve and twitch were nerfed to sub-45% winrates, that's how far they went. Picking eve might as well have been a bannable offense.

If Riot was so happy and willing to fuck those characters and leave them in the bin for so long just because they have toxic playstyles, then HMMMMMMmmmaybe we can get Riot to do the same for Yasuo? (I would actually rather they do this to ekko first, my dislike of yasuo isn't really a priority in my mind)

GULAG 4 USep 8, 20161 votes

They were op. Your reason is because he's annoying. So no you don't nerf a champion because you think he's annoying.

Backup4nowSep 8, 20161 votes

Define OP. Clearly, they were not op in the game-winning sense because they ended up with an incredibly sub-par winrate instead of 50%, like a 'balanced' character would be.

They weren't op in in the all-around sense, where they fit into every team comp and can make game-winning plays, where they're top picks just because of that (like Lee Sin is, where his winrate is low but still always picked often because lol wardhop r highskill). None of those characters had all-around always-useful tools when they were left in the gutter.

That leaves us with op in the "holy fuck the concept of this champion is stupid" sense... Which, make no mistake, is exactly what Riot based the nerfs on. I think right now Kalista is being fucked in the same way as the mentioned characters, and she's a very recent release. Yasuo falls into this category, therefore he is eligible for the same treatment.

They DID nerf the characters because they were toxic, unfun, and annoying. So yes, it isn't past Riot to nerf characters for other reasons besides being op.

GULAG 4 USep 8, 20161 votes

Except I'd suggest you to read what does yorick's kit does. It's overloaded as shit and impossible to balance.

Urgot too. There's a reason why he was nerfed to trollpick tier.

Poppy? I think we know what this was...

I don't know about twitch and evelyn since I don't really give a shit about them anyways.

Now Kalista. It's pretty obvious. Azir. Somewhat simple kit, that allows him to do 99 other things too.

Now yasuo's kit is overloaded in the sense where it has a lot of mechanics, but it doesn't allow him to do 99 different things with it.

Also none of the champion above were nerfed for solely being unfun to play against as you suggest.

They were nerfed for having completely impossible to balance kits that no matter what does rito try they can't do shit about them so they dropped them into the trollpick tier.

It's not the case for yasuo. His kit is balanceable and it was balanced before Fervor and the new triforce. And before you shittalk about yasuo and not triforce, there is a clear problem with this shit item 3078 when an AP assassin Ekko is building an AD item.

Backup4nowSep 9, 20161 votes

yorick's kit is hardly overloaded, it's a self speedup, enemy slowdown, and high regen through sticky minions focused on single target damage. His ult is just a shitty morde ghost that lets people keep playing for a few more seconds after death. Meanwhile, ekko does the same self speedup/enemy slowdown single target damage with just his passive alone.

Is yorick's kit impossible to balance? absolutely, but not because it's overloaded. It's just because sticky single-target focused damage dealers that are really hard to trade with are always a balance issue. That's why Riot almost always tries nerfing trade potential when it comes to problematic solo laners, and why yorick got dumpstered: trade potential is literally his entire kit.

Yasuo, I'll agree, isn't nearly as overloaded as, say, ekko. But, just like yorick, he's still very problematic in his own way; his viability can dramatically swing as the game around him changes slightly.

it be lìke thatSep 7, 20164 votes

"underpowered" ?

He is listed as god tier mid and top lane on every site ive visited. wut.

AMYS GRAVESep 7, 20164 votes

Simply explain to me the logical consistancy of his windwall. What does it block and what doesn't it? Don't say projectiles because projectiles are defined by yasuo's windwall so that logic is circular. That's my main problem with him (his hyper mobility is annoying af but w/e i can deal).

A few examples for your thought.

What's the difference between zilean time bomb and maokai sapling? One gets stopped the other is destroyed.
What's the difference between Jhin traps and Teemo traps? one gets stopped by windwall the other doesn't.
What's the difference between Talisman active and BotRK active? one gets destroyed by windwall the other goes through.
What's the difference between Gangplank's parlay and Kayle righteous fury? Both are ranged auto attack modifiers on otherwise melee champions yet one is blocked the other isn't.

Really Yasuo windwall blocks what the devs decide it blocks and they hand pick who Yasuo gets to counter or not.

And don't get me started on the differences between windwall and braum shield creating two conflicting definitions of projectile.... Hope you memorize the interaction for both of these spells for every ability in the game or else you'll be surprised at what goes through and what gets blocked.

NineTailedMysticSep 7, 20162 votes

What's the difference between Gangplank's parlay and Kayle righteous fury? Both are ranged auto attack modifiers on otherwise melee champions yet one is blocked the other isn't.

Parrrley has a projectile with travel time, Kayle's E has no projectile. It just happens.