Just noticed more AP is being removed from the game again..

Valhalla Rising·Nov 28, 2016·56 votes·3,431 views

Blue Sentinel: -Buff No longer increases ability power by 15% -Buff duration increased to two minutes from 90 seconds.

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

74 Comments

SwaidNov 28, 201620 votes

Its all about that AD, BB.

It prints LCS money with its big plays and epic slays.

Kill Me.

DengedenNov 28, 201616 votes

And other untrue things you like to espouse.

SaiannaNov 28, 20164 votes

It's quite true that Riot nerfs mages on every occasion.

But whatever man. Soon you'll have last 10 mages and 40 "new" supports. I bet it'll work just fine with your ADC theme.

DengedenNov 29, 20161 votes

More mages - more ways for ADCs to get CC'd and die - wat?

Everything gets nerfed, bruh, everything. Mages are more likely to get hit because there's so many of them and because mid lane is so impactful but in the end, everything gets nerfed.

SaiannaNov 29, 20161 votes

I can grit my teeth seeing MAGES being nerfed (if there is a good reason for that)

But mage items....? OK I know about Rylai. the thing is, now Riot nerfs it to even worse state pre-buff.

Second thing, what about mage nerfs that had no reason whatsoever?

Like Swain and Karthus? They weren't OP. Back then they were at **almost **50% winrate or so. Yet they received a nerf.

What about AD item nerfs? When it became obvious and FINE that ADC can run with 400 AD, 1,5 AS, 50%+ Crit, 20% LS (or more) 120 MR on top of that?

ADCs in season 3 couldn't muster even half of those stats and they were more than FINE.

And mages? They used to be able to get 1k AP. Now, unless you play Veigar 600 is almost definite max you can get (and obviously ou'd be squishy as hell).

DengedenNov 29, 20162 votes

ADCs run scaling builds. Mages have those too. Only they don't have to go for them because they have a level advantage as solo laners.

AD item nerfs? How about Maw? How about lethality replacing flat armor pen (ADCs stopped going for armor pen builds after that after all)? How about the fact that, on the rare occasion that an ADC does become p/b or first pick material, they get nerfed?

Mages don't get that much AP anymore because there's always that one of them that bursts you down 100-0 or clears waves indefinitely. As such, combos are slower and have more counterplay but mages can kite better and offer things for their team that aren't pure damage.

1000 AP is still possible with a Seraph's build, especially with Baron buff. Still, it's hilarious to watch people say there's damage creep when the standard AP builds and kits have significantly less AP.

Swain and Karthus had dumb and cheesy lv 1 CC. It was stupidly punishing to play against and a champion's strength shouldn't rely on carelessness on their enemy's part. Oh, they had a higher winrate than 50% when DFT was released, trust me, Riot just leaped at the chance to nerf that crap and then nerfed DFT too.

Rylai's will be better on actual mage tanks. That's a fact.

NightmareAmazoXNov 29, 20162 votes

Shots fired^

SaiannaNov 29, 20162 votes

AD item nerfs? How about Maw?

Lets start with Maw was not nerfed?

It was defensive item to begin with
Had GAINED more AD than before, but now only when passive triggers
Defensive item having armor pen is misleading. So it got something else, but just as good.

How about lethality replacing flat armor pen

Armor pen/lethality is assassins main stat.

Just as AP is for mages and crit is for ADC

Riot nerfed armor pen (lethality) cause ADCs were moaning that assassins were too strong. So they shot in their own foot.

How about the fact that, on the rare occasion that an ADC does become p/b or first pick material, they get nerfed?

Just like anyone else minus Lee Sin. Still you can play a successful game without mages, but you can't do that without ADCs. They became most essential class in LoL.

Mages don't get that much AP anymore because there's always that one of them that bursts you down 100-0 or clears waves indefinitely.

In old days we had even more mages capable of doing that. Yet it was fine'ish. Also there are some ADCs who can do the same shit. burst you and clear waves and yet it's fine, right?

Btw, now when mages have difficult time with mana regen and they have to strain their builds to get something like FQC, saying something like "indefinitely" is a lie. A bad and biased lie.

As such, combos are slower and have more counterplay but mages can kite better

Combos aren't slower. Combos are simply weaker. They'd be slower if Riot added some 1s cast time interval between spells. But they took a heavy chunk of AP mages used to build.

And.. I could live with that, really, if not for the fact that AD itemization is only getting better. More MR options, lifesteal and crit are at their strongest since ever.

I'm biased here, but I swear, i'm not lying: I, as a mage, could not drop an ADC below 50% hp with my full combo (to get grevious wounds activated). Simply because ADC was outhealing every damage I dealt with fast AAs. You have no idea how bad it felt. Like someone slapped me in the cheek with iron glove with rusty nails in it.

Then few days lates I saw the same shit with different ADC versus different mage.

Conclusion of that was: ADC are the strongest 1v1 class that can be slain only by heavy gank or even heavier CC.

and offer things for their team that aren't pure damage.

Well yeah. It's a shame they get nerfed for that though. Or even reworked into supports simply because their CC is good and they still have some decent damage. Ask Zyra or brand.

1000 AP is still possible with a Seraph's build, especially with Baron buff. Still, it's hilarious to watch people say there's damage creep when the standard AP builds and kits have significantly less AP.

Mages used to get 1000 AP with just their builds. 5 stacked Archangels and rabaddon = 1,1k ap or so~~
Well, AD has received quite huge power creep buff. In old times you have 2 items with lots of AD. BT and IE, right? Now lets count them: Death's dance, BT, IE, Edge of Night, Maw (when activated), duskblade, Mercurial scimitar, Youmuus. And it's not like they give just AD. They give whole lots of other usefull stats. And if you lack crit/AS you get 3 better than decent picks that always work: PD, Statikk and Runaan

In other words, there was no powercreep in mage builds. But there sure is power creep in AD itemization. I do know I mentioned assassin tools, but Riot didn't care to make them non-abusable by ADCs.

Swain and Karthus had dumb and cheesy lv 1 CC.

So? A CC-ability on 12-15s CD. And at best it gave you a small advantage that didn't even transit to later parts of game? Both of them had their winrates below 50%. Which means their "cheesy" CC wasn't worth as much as you try to make it to be.

Second part, Riot nerfed Swains CC to the level, where animation of casting it was LONGER than whole CC. And Swain couldn;t even get to the target in time.

Oh, they had a higher winrate than 50% when DFT was released, trust me, Riot just leaped at the chance to nerf that crap and then nerfed DFT too.

Yeap. Like everyone abusing TLD. Or other masteries I think. I don;t remember any ADC being nerfed cause they abused that lifesteal one. Only Yasuo got hit if I remember right.

Anyways swain/karthus nerfing and DFT nerfing were 2 different times. It didn't happen in lets say 1 or 2 weeks inbetween. They simply nerfed them for no bigger reason. They couldn;t even give a good explanation in patch notes.

Rylai's will be better on actual mage tanks. That's a fact.

We have Rylai in 3 stages. Old, buffed (the one we have right now) and nerfed.

Old Rylai was fine and noone said anything to change it. Riot did it and buffed Rylai for no reason. They ofcourse did it stupidly and made it must have for any AP stacking mage. Now they want to nerf it. Okay.. But they want to nerf it FAR below of OLD Rylais stats.

And in the end what we wanted: Low AP, High HP, decent passive-slow And in the end what we will receive: Medium AP, Medium HP, crappy-slow

Tank mages? Like Amumu? Or Swain? Anyways it rather will fail. Lets just forget about passive and focus on AP and HP and gold cost.

It gives too little HP, it's decent Ap will allow TankAkali / Katarina to still abuse it.
Low cost (with TERRIBLE gold efficiency) means this is by no means endgame item. Thus it won't be worth a flying fart once game gets to final minutes. That amount of HP it gives is worth 1 crit from ADC.
As mentioned before, terrible gold efficiency. We are throwing about 30% of its stats (and passives) worth to trash.
i doubt any respected mage would get Rylai instead of ROA now. Which means ROA will too be nerfed.

DengedenNov 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lets start with Maw was not nerfed?

It was defensive item to begin with

Had GAINED more AD than before, but now only when passive triggers

Defensive item having armor pen is misleading. So it got something else, but just as good.

It's built less often or neglected alltogether on ADCs. That makes it nerfed. It used to be the highest AD item in the game when the passive triggered too, so yeah.

Armor pen/lethality is assassins main stat.

Didn't stop ADCs from stacking flat Ar Pen. They don't do that anymore, so again, nerf.

Riot nerfed armor pen (lethality) cause ADCs were moaning that assassins were too strong. So they shot in their own foot.

lol no

Just like anyone else minus Lee Sin.

He doesn't need 'em. He shows up every now and then and then disappears when a p/b item/jungler crops up.

Still you can play a successful game without mages, but you can't do that without ADCs.

Not in most metas you can't. At least in a top tier meta.

They became most essential class in LoL.

Just like waveclear is. Just like a frontline is. Just like a jungler is.

And that's not a bad thing, just like ADCs, they're a skillful iteration of the meta.

In old days we had even more mages capable of doing that. Yet it was fine'ish.

Play against Zyra support. Now imagine 2 of them. Now say that again. Fine'ish

Also there are some ADCs who can do the same shit. burst you and clear waves and yet it's fine, right?

Yep. Because the fact is, they take more time and items to do that.

Btw, now when mages have difficult time with mana regen and they have to strain their builds to get something like FQC, saying something like "indefinitely" is a lie. A bad and biased lie.

I said they used to be able to do that. Ziggs was the worst offender, incidentally.

Combos aren't slower. Combos are simply weaker. They'd be slower if Riot added some 1s cast time interval between spells. But they took a heavy chunk of AP mages used to build.

Well there are things like Daisy's 3-hit knockup but true, most of them kill you with 2 combos instead of 1.

And.. I could live with that, really, if not for the fact that AD itemization is only getting better.

Shame that most of them still build the same thing. And that all of them can only build 6 items.

More MR options, lifesteal and crit are at their strongest since ever.

And AD and AS are weaker, you biased person.

I'm biased here, but I swear, i'm not lying: I, as a mage, could not drop an ADC below 50% hp with my full combo (to get grevious wounds activated). Simply because ADC was outhealing every damage I dealt with fast AAs.

Stop farming mid and roam bot then. Or keep farming mid after he build IE and a Zeal item (and probably boots). Or take Ignite.

You have no idea how bad it felt. Like someone slapped me in the cheek with iron glove with rusty nails in it.

I know it happened to me in S4 too.

Conclusion of that was: ADC are the strongest 1v1 class that can be slain only by heavy gank or even heavier CC.

It's almost like mages are good at the latter and yes, ADCs are DPS. It's their class's main role. You need to catch them out or burst them down. The thing is, the time period to catch them out or burst them down is quite high during the early game, so it's fair.

Well yeah. It's a shame they get nerfed for that though.

Everything gets nerfed, shame yeah but y'know. Gotta keep things fresh.

Or even reworked into supports simply because their CC is good and they still have some decent damage. Ask Zyra or brand.

Mages used to get 1000 AP with just their builds. 5 stacked Archangels and rabaddon = 1,1k ap or so~~

I imagine you can replace 2 Seraph's with RoA and Morello respectively.

2. Well, AD has received quite huge power creep buff. In old times you have 2 items with lots of AD. BT and IE, right? Now lets count them: Death's dance, BT, IE, Edge of Night, Maw (when activated), duskblade, Mercurial scimitar, Youmuus.

Mercurial got nerfed. ADCs don't build DD, EoN, Duskblade or Ghostblade. Let's count again.

And it's not like they give just AD. They give whole lots of other useful stats. And if you lack crit/AS you get 3 better than decent picks that always work: PD, Statikk and Runaan

You get one of them. And I like versatility. If that's powercreep then so be it.

I do know I mentioned assassin tools, but Riot didn't care to make them non-abusable by ADCs.

Because they didn't need to. Maaaaaaaybe MF or Varus will build them but cm'on, we're fine with those.

So? A CC-ability on 12-15s CD. And at best it gave you a small advantage that didn't even transit to later parts of game? Both of them had their winrates below 50%. Which means their "cheesy" CC wasn't worth as much as you try to make it to be.

It makes you snowball for a tiny mistake. That transits insanely well into later parts of the game. CC is the single most powerful tool in the game, I can make it out as much as I like and I'll still be more on point than you.

Yeap. Like everyone abusing TLD. Or other masteries I think.

Yeah like ... DFT Yasuo and DFT Vayne and DFT Mundo. Everyone ran TLD man, even supports and junglers, the two keystones aren't even remotely comparable.

I don;t remember any ADC being nerfed cause they abused that lifesteal one. Only Yasuo got hit if I remember right.

I think only Warlord's got nerfed. So yeah. No.

Anyways swain/karthus nerfing and DFT nerfing were 2 different times. It didn't happen in lets say 1 or 2 weeks inbetween.

Did they? Hm. My bad. My point stands though.

They simply nerfed them for no bigger reason. They couldn;t even give a good explanation in patch notes.

Well now you have mine.

We have Rylai in 3 stages. Old, buffed (the one we have right now) and nerfed.

Old Rylai was fine and noone said anything to change it. Riot did it and buffed Rylai for no reason.

Ah yes. Old Rylai's. Or as I liked to call it. That AP item that only Rumble buys. Ok sometimes Amumu Karthus.

They ofcourse did it stupidly and made it must have for any AP stacking mage.

and yet...

In other words, there was no powercreep in mage builds. Now they want to nerf it. Okay.. But they want to nerf it FAR below of OLD Rylais stats.

They want to make it a tank item. Tank items in general are cheap to make up for them falling off late game.

And in the end what we wanted: Low AP, High HP, decent passive-slow

Soooooo, not the old Rylai's?

And in the end what we will receive: Medium AP, Medium HP, crappy-slow

Well yeah, screw permaslows.

Tank mages? Like Amumu? Or Swain? Anyways it rather will fail. Lets just forget about passive and focus on AP and HP and gold cost.

It gives too little HP,

You can use the 600 extra gold you have to build Ruby Crystal. Congrats, you now have more health than before. And you can buy armor or MR if you decide you need that as a defensive stat instead.

it's decent Ap will allow TankAkali / Katarina to still abuse it.

Tankali or Katankarina were never strong enough to "abuse" an item. They're annoying, that's all. As long as full AP Kat and Akali don't buy it, we're good.

2. Low cost (with TERRIBLE gold efficiency) means this is by no means endgame item.

The amount of games that reach 6 items are beyond miniscule. And tanks fall off late game anyway.

4. i doubt any respected mage would get Rylai instead of ROA now.

Good, they don't want mages to build Rylai's. (Or rather, Board's doesn't and they always listen.)

Which means ROA will too be nerfed.

Even, for the sake of argument, let's say you were right about that... do you wanna bet on it getting nerfed because it replaced Rylai's?

YuGiHoNov 28, 201611 votes

Still waiting on that 20 cdr ap item with no mana/mana regen.

DracocrashNov 28, 20161 votes

nashors?

YuGiHoNov 28, 20165 votes

thats a really niche item for ap atk speed builds

DracocrashNov 28, 20161 votes

but why do you need a 20% cdr manaless option when there are so many 10% options including but not limited too Ionian boots of lucidity, Abyssal sceptre, Zhonya's Hour glass, Hextech ProtoBelt.

YuGiHoNov 28, 20167 votes

Because that fills your inventory with a bunch of sub optimal items you dont really want and they all take too long to build before you begin to focus on items you really want, in this case it would be either void or death camp because you have so many cdr items and boots you can fit anything else unless you got cdr boots in that case you did not get sorc boots and you didnt get void till 5th item and if your getting void 5th and deathcap as a last item you probably lost

The Yetii RiderNov 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Still waiting on that 20 cdr ap item with no mana/mana regen.

We don't need an item like that. AP champs without mana only used cooldowns as a resource. That item would be too gold efficient on them.

Nothing stopping Vladimir from building Morellpnomicon.

Lux KywaIkerNov 28, 201611 votes

Meanwhile full AD team set ups faceroll towers by split pushing the hell out of the enemy base after 20min of game with item 3142 while being unkillable by any AP enemy thanks to OP item 3156 .

But hey, after 45min AP champions can deal 300 damage per hit to structures with 800 AP and 2 mountain drakes, so it's pretty balanced.

Meep ManNov 28, 20166 votes

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-01-2015/fj9U56.gif

"WHO NEEDS LIMITS WHEN YOU HAVE INFINITE POWEEEEEER!"

Teridax68Nov 28, 20165 votes

I'm not entirely sure how to feel about this. On one hand, I'm personally not a fan of stat amplifiers, but on the other, I don't like how this takes more late-game power away from AP champions. A lot of buffs to AP and tanky items so far have been cost reductions, too, whereas AD items, especially marksman items, retain consistently higher costs, and usually more raw power as well. This is frustrating, because this means non-marksmen tend to cap out quicker and feel like they can't enhance their power any further, whereas marksmen get late-game dominance handed to them by raw statistical superiority. Super-early itemization is also a lot easier for AD champions than it is for AP or tanky champions, since Long Swords cost significantly less than Amp Tomes and Ruby Crystals, so it just feels like there's altogether a major skew in itemization and power progression overall, one that need not exist.

ItsOrvalNov 28, 20162 votes

Good. I am sick of seeing these ap champs with 800 AP while im stuck with 300-400 AD

Meep ManNov 28, 201636 votes

Two basic attacks and you've probably already dealt more damage than one of their abilities that has a cool down

HollowMimicNov 28, 20161 votes

^^this

Unless they are running away/have combo-killed you, before you reach them :P

ItsOrvalNov 28, 20163 votes

Cassiopeia Katarina Leblanc Malzahar Nidalee Orianna Syndra Veigar Ziggs Zyra

Doubt

Votable JesterNov 28, 201614 votes

Do people think that Ori's QRW is one spell or something?

LordGeovanniNov 29, 20161 votes

no one of them just has a 3 second cooldown or so while the other 2 burst and zone you on not much longer cd. while tanks even with cdr have sheilds that scale with stats they cant build (ap) on 2 times the cooldown and have to stand in the front of 5 people to take the brunt of the damage

khorneyNov 29, 20161 votes

it only takes 1 sec to kill most champs as ap leona

khorneyNov 29, 20161 votes

it only takes me 1 sec to weqr as leo to kill most champs as ap leo so yah your wrong

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TRDec 1, 20161 votes

W takes like 3 seconds to do any damage at all, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there, unless you pop it before you go in and then it explodes after your zenith blade hits.

khorneyDec 1, 20161 votes

generally 99% of leos pop w before going in . so yes it takes 1 sec to kill most champs as leo ap

CatastropNov 28, 20164 votes

300-400 is the equivalent off 600-800 AP, last I checked, autos have no CD now do they?

ItsOrvalNov 28, 20162 votes

item 3100

This will help you with that. Cast one abilty, basic, abilty, basic, ability, basic, and your next ability should be up by then.

CatastropNov 28, 20169 votes

Because every AP champion is rushing to build the brokeness that is Lich Bane.

LeetriNov 28, 20169 votes

Technically they do, there's a period after each attack where you can't attack again (albeit very short). Attack Speed is basically CDR for auto attacks.

ZacsterNov 28, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Good. I am sick of seeing these ap champs with 800 AP while im stuck with 300-400 AD

You play full ad jayce of course you'd complain about this...

ItsOrvalNov 28, 20162 votes

I play Veigar mid, Nasus/Jayce top. Veigar melts towers faster than my nasus with 600 stacks does once Veigar gets item 3100 . Takes like 3 autos and the tower is gone lol.

RysaNov 28, 20161 votes

The thing is, though, Lich on Veigar isn't that good, because to make use of the passive, you have to get in auto range. Which means you're playing really aggressive. Which means they can dive you. Which means you die. Fast. With veigar, you don't want to be in that sort of range, honestly. You want to be in E range, to get the stuns, to get the kills. Also, it is just overkill when using it to burst people, because Veigar already has an easy time bursting people, so it just hurts towers and such, which, like I said, is bad on Veigar.

Also, there are wayyyy better items on Veigar than Lichbane. Rabadons, Boots, Ludens for even more burst, Rylais because of the extra AP, which shouldn't be underestimated(Could be wrong, but it also helps when E is on CD, and helps catch people more easily), Morelloes, Zhonya's against AD's and Abyssal against AP's, Void staff...If you want Lich Bane, you have to cut one of those items. I mean, You can cut a defensive item, but then you are just that more squishy/weak to people getting on your face.

All in all, Getting Lich on Veigar is just bad, because making use of the proc means playing stupidly aggressive, which will get you killed, and there are many more items that will be more useful.

LordGeovanniNov 29, 20161 votes

veigar by virtue of getting ap from every spell and kills while his base damage are still stupid high is viable building anything. not to mention that he is supposed to be a mage that takes chunks every few seconds but drops 2 spells and nukes you from the face of the map and if you happen to be counter building him then he uses 3 spells

RysaNov 29, 20161 votes

Yea, I'm not saying That Lich is bad on Veigar in a sense that it's literally unplayable, I'm talking about in a sense of, 'why build this when I can build other items and have a better time?'

Yea, you CAN build Lichbane, but that just isn't the best idea because it requires you to get in range to AA, which on Veigar, you don't want to do. If a Diver so much as LOOKS at you, and you have no CC to stop him, you better hope that your team has your back. Besides, you said it yourself, Veigar instantly bursts people, weather it be with 2 spells or with 3, so why would he want another item that gives him burst?

LordGeovanniNov 29, 20162 votes

as veigar you have to get in auto attack range to land your e w combo you can cast it from farther with a almost guaranteed miss though and a guaranteed miss on q. veigar is a mid range mage that can zone at a long range . if you ever intended to hit any of your spells you are gonna be in auto attack range any way. being immortal while scaleing infinite damage and never running out of spells is more efficient than building shit ton of burst items when you do the same thing no matter what you build after second item. just that people like to commit to one build style. no matter what is more effective

LeetriNov 28, 20162 votes

Didn't the boards complain about mages dealing too much damage and basically oneshotting everyone, which makes them better assassins than the actual assassins? Now we're complaining that the mages don't deal as much damage?

Teridax68Nov 28, 20165 votes

I agree that some burst mages are still too bursty, and this would help against that, but the larger complaint is that pretty much every class except for marksmen is getting raw power taken away from them, whether it be via itemization or the environment. Effectively, this isn't just that mages are getting nerfed, but that they're getting their mid to late game nerfed by having their power progression hard-capped sooner, with nothing else to show for it. It's probable that the game needs some degree of blanket nerfing to all the damage going on, but so far that hasn't yet really applied to AD itemization, especially marksman itemization, which considering the already central role of marksmen in the game, doesn't feel fair.

SaiannaNov 28, 20169 votes

Lemme tell you how it was

Somewhere inn season 2 Riot changed their balancing policy. All classes started to get balanced around ADC class.
For 3 years ADCs increased power to the point, where by their sheer number of yapping on forums/boards one class could be nerfed.
And so it happend. "The yappening" of angry ADC mob focused on mages. Items nerfed, mana potion removed, masteries for mages nerfed, mages nerfed.
Somewhere here we got [Tank update], where Riot took their time to clean some of old tank tools... Nerfing tanks in the priocess. It was caused of just starting [The yappening 0,5]. Riot prevented full power of yappening by nerfing tanks asap.
It somehow calmed a little after Riot implemented alot more tools for ADCs to cope with mages [ADC update].
But ADCs didn't bother to buy those tools, so "the yappening 2" happend [Mage update]... Or to be more precise [Support update]
Once again mages nerfed, mage items nerfed or reworked to support, ADCs got new tools & supports
Again it calmed from ADCs side... Untill they decided "assassins be too OP"...
..."The yappening 3". Major gutting on assassins in the [assassin update]... Along with new tools for ADCs to fight versus MAGES and Assassins...
Now we are here, in this moment. Riot is most likely tired and afraid of "The yappening 4" to take place, so they are nerfing mages anyways, just in case, so ADCs wouldn't open their air holes.
Now, in not too distant future we will receive [tank update 2]. Do I even have to say it'll turn out into huge mess of nerfs to tanks, increasing number of supports and overall increasing ADCs power once again?

Votable JesterNov 28, 20169 votes

Well written. Both humerous and true.

Every class update besides the adc has resulted in a nerf. The mage update even seemed to be lead by a Rioter who hated mages (especially siege mages). I don't think anyone who liked mages would have removed mana regen without giving more AP to at least allow those costly hits to hurt, but he even nerfed the AP on mage items as well.

Needless to say, I'm still very upset with the guy in charge of it.

Kharn SkyshatterNov 28, 20164 votes

Funny, but part of me feels may not be too far off the mark. Wonder when we have teams of 3+ ADC's if they'll get toned down some.

Votable JesterNov 28, 20163 votes

You mean adc bot, Varus mid, Vayne/Quinn/Lucian top, Graves jungle? Make the support someone like Zyra or Brand, and it could actually work xD.

HazyCloud7Nov 28, 20165 votes

Yup, this game is entirely balanced around adcs. They are always relevant, and even when they are strong adc mains still complain.

bad arcade kittyNov 28, 20161 votes

yeah also rylai nerfs

it's not news

YuGiHoNov 28, 201614 votes

It is news because its new and hasn't actually happened on live servers yet.

MishliNov 28, 20161 votes

they also just buffed (imo) abyssal scepter and removed the aura from locket, that's a 20-30% boost in raw damages.

Personally with protobelt and glp... (slushy maker) i think mages have enough items right now. I would just like to see some numbers moved around because i think nomicon-rylais-hat is a little too powerful at the moment

HazyCloud7Nov 28, 20164 votes

The abyssal change is a nerf until the enemy has like ~176 MR I wanna say off the top of my head. Don't remember the exact value but it is definitely a nerf from old abyssal.

MishliNov 30, 20161 votes

still, no locket is pretty big