I feel like hard CC should cancel all dashes
Title,i cant take it anymore,especially that tristana W,such a big range...
Title,i cant take it anymore,especially that tristana W,such a big range...
need their cc buffering removed full stop.
Or at least half stop
Baby steps tbh. Huge changes throw the delicate balance ecosystem out the window.
I honestly don't have an issue with CC buffering. I have more of an issue with Tristana being able to just W through the path of oncoming CC.
I agree with this. The point to hard CC is that it is meant to stop movement, yet for some reason dashes allow champions to ignore all forms of movement-stopping CC, besides knockups, while in effect. For one, being able to land hard CC on a fast-moving target should be particularly rewarding, yet often it feels like your great mechanical play only ended up wasting your crowd control, especially since the dash meant that the target got to not only go where they wanted, but also partially ate up some of the CC by moving while it was in effect. Having targets move through hard CC when they're not unstoppable I think isn't good for clarity, and because of this I think it would be best to generalize the effect we've already seen on a few champions, e.g. Veigar and Malzahar, and apply it to all hard CC. This kind of change would also help in an environment saturated with gapclosers, without having to respond with an equally saturated amount of displacements.
I agree with this. The point to hard CC is that it is meant to stop movement, yet for some reason dashes allow champions to ignore all forms of movement-stopping CC, besides knockups, while in effect. For one, being able to land hard CC on a fast-moving target should be particularly rewarding, yet often it feels like your great mechanical play only ended up wasting your crowd control, especially since the dash meant that the target got to not only go where they wanted, but also partially ate up some of the CC by moving while it was in effect. Having targets move through hard CC when they're not unstoppable I think isn't good for clarity, and because of this I think it would be best to generalize the effect we've already seen on a few champions, e.g. Veigar and Malzahar, and apply it to all hard CC. This kind of change would also help in an environment saturated with gapclosers, without having to respond with an equally saturated amount of displacements.
Not all dashes.
Vayne Q doesn't Lucian E doesn't.
Just the ones that have a cast time like Ez and Trist.
I'm not talking about the cast buffer, I'm talking about the actual dash, during which you are effectively immune to all hard CC that isn't displacement. You're still properly hard-CCed once the dash ends, but during, you will not stop moving. Yasuo's dash is one of the only dashes around that always gets stopped by hard CC, but Vayne and Lucian's instant dashes can have them partially eat through hard CC just like any other.
Yep. It should but. We all know very well that riot will never do it.
Tristana jump can be canceled by any CC while she's in the air.
Tristana jump can be canceled by any CC while she's in the air.
It can only be stopped by another displacement that hits her after the jump and not during the buffer. Veigar's wall can stop it as well since his wall is programmed to stop movement.
Any other CC that hits her has her still complete her jump to her destination and then be rooted, stunned, etc for the remaining duration at her landing location.
i think that stuns should be put into effect at the end of the dash (so long as the dash actually started first) but roots should just straight up stop a dash imo
+1 it is called a root after all
I'm pretty sure you can cancel the Tristana dash with CC (Blitzcrank Q, Rakan W, Singed E) unless these fall into a different category.
You can only cancel it with a small number of displacements. Stuns, roots, and the like are all ignored.
You can only cancel it with a small number of displacements. Stuns, roots, and the like are all ignored.
So I think pulls, knockups, and flips are what cancels dashes.
Veigar's E is the only stun that cancels all dashes that pass through it.
Well, somewhat recently they changed jinx’s root to cancel any dashes too
Veigar's E is the only stun that cancels all dashes that pass through it.
I believe Blitz Q and Thresh Q can prevent dashes, except for Fiora Q/W but you know - that's Fiora. This includes tricky champions like Tristana . . . but good luck hitting it anyways.
both thresh and blitz Q are displacements with stuns attached. In this case It's the displacement that cancels dashes not the stun.
I think Jinx Traps stop you in your tracks now. I might be wrong though.
EDIT: Nvm, the guy below me confirmed this interaction.
Veigar's E is the only stun that cancels all dashes that pass through it.
Even Malphite Ult? I think that one goes through..
Malphite ult is unstoppable (btw) so it goes through. In fact, Malph's ult cannot be stopped even by Azir's wall.
The problem is that trist can buffer nearly all cc by using her rocketjump at the exact moment she is hit.
pls no. CC is already ridiculous and I'm not even a dash champion
Shouldn't you be in support of this, considering that CC is more dangerous to the immobile champions than the mobile ones?
I would be if the game weren't so team reliant
I had a thing that upset me with this before, but it was funny to look at. I was playing
and landed his Q on a
right as they hit W. The result? No pull, but Blitz' arm became REALLY long. XD
[{quoted}](name=Twilit Angel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f1ZBQZaT,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-04-27T10:53:10.734+0000)
I had a thing that upset me with this before, but it was funny to look at. I was playing
and landed his Q on a
right as they hit W. The result? No pull, but Blitz' arm became REALLY long. XD
Funny story, but...it's strange, in all game i played blitz (m6) whenver i Q/Ed the enemy tristana Wing, she just got her W canceled+pwnd
Next off. make all cc abilities on click with aoe effect. they are far too tough to hit...
I would think roots would make sense to stop movement, but not necessarily stuns. Roots are supposed to bind an opponent to the spot. This binding action should stop momentum. Stuns necessarily shouldn't. I picture stuns as knocking the person out, but it doesn't stop them from reaching their destination as it does not effect their momentum. They are just a briefly knocked out like a ragdoll flying through the air is how I imagine it.
You can't stop Trist while channeling the jump ability but you can stop her in mid air.
Only with a displacement. If Tristana were to jump and get ashe ulted she will complete the jump no matter what and stay stunned once she lands. I think it depends entirely on a case by case basis since Ahri stopping dashes made her impossible to ever trade against as champions like LeBlanc (can literally never W on top of her which is your main source of damage), but champions like Tristana don't need to be able to complete their dashes to get out of jail especially when she is sent straight to Rune Prison but still makes it over the wall with her jump.
If I had a nickel for every time I Cast Roots as Zyra only to have the enemy dash THROUGH them and not get rooted....
wait...don't people always complain when tankmeta happens? If hard cc would cancel every dash or
/
don't buffer cc anymore:
Guess what nondashing full of cc class will get op for the rest of league?
Yes, the answer is tanks and not even Skirmishers or Divers could handle them cause tanks would stop their movement all the time.
It is acutaly good that movement cancel just happens with
and not with everyone cause tanks are already realy good and some non dashable adcs are in line with dashable adcs but changes like this would make both cases far more over the line while adcs would jsut get little touched and divers/assassins would sink to be 0 usefull.
Tanks aren't the only class with cc, and most of them have a displacement in their kit somewhere anyways so they are already canceling dashes.
Here's a list
Q and W
Q and E
R
Q
E and R
Mega form R
E and R
EQ combo (wasn't sure if i should include j4 or not)
R
Q
Q and R
Passive proc, E onto wall, and R
W (if someone dashes inside) E and R
Q
Q (BTW if you activate her E it will do a "knockdown" on the target meaning their dash ends soon as the projectile hits. Same thing happens with
ult)
E
Q and R
E
Q and E
Q and E
well these mostly don't stop a buffered
w for exampel.
And yes, toher classes have cc too but tanks are definetly the class with the most cc.
So what you didn't list up:
e
r
passive
e
w
Mega Form e
w, r
passive
e
q, r
q, e, r
e
e (his r is basicly a cancel already)
q on 3passive stacks (w cancel too)
q
you forgot
yea other classes would also get benefits cause they have some cc but tanks already have some of them and if comparing 1 to 0 dash canceling abilitys or 2/3 to 1 dash canceling abilitys while tanks realy rarly dash with exception of engaging vanguards (and some of them are not ablte to get canceld like malphite or sion) while all other class ahve mobility dashes guess which side will get to be stronger out of this change.
well these mostly don't stop a buffered
w for exampel.
Which is why you don't use it unless she has zero vision of you and won't have the time to react OR she uses it before you throw the cc out which you can do without being punished much early-mid game.
And when people say they want cc to cancel dashes i'm pretty sure they don't mean that slows and silences should be able to do that too.
I also doubt tanks having their roots/stuns being able to cancel dashes will change much since if they already hit one on you they can easily follow up with the rest of their cc cause you won't be moving with how long their cc tends to last.
I can't believe I have to keep posting this answer from Riot Jinxylord over and over, even though it's over 6 months old. Only comes to show how little people actually care for what Riot answers. No wonder they rarely respond. People just forget about whatever they say whenever it's convenient to make a new salt-based thread.
Riot Jinxylord on Rocket Jump CC Cancel
You seriously gotta get over this.
It's not an explanation. He just tried to justify a broken ability. By default dashes should.be stopped and interrupted by roots and stuns. This is dumb that e.g. j4 can use his eq dash in lux root because he has buffered it. Oh the ability would be awful to use? You mean it would have more counterplay and hitting your cc would be rewarded as it should? But yeah riot precious adcs have to get everything so a bug that shouldn't be treated as game mechanic stays in the game.
Dashes arestopped/interrupted by roots/stuns. You're probably gonna get angry about what I'm gonna say but it's not a bug: Not only is it intended, but it's also skill expressive. What overrides the CC is the buffer timer, not the dash itself. Learning how to do it is part of learning any champion with a dash. Do it too early, get punished. Do it too late, get punished. Do it at the right time, get rewarded.
Skill expression aside (and for Trist specifically), removing the override would make the ability awful to use because of server latency. Remove the cast animation and it's a straight buff. Jinxylord's explanation is very simple and easy to understand.
There is counter play. If you don't see it or aren't good enough to play around it, that's not the game's fault. Cooldown is 14 seconds at max rank, the jump can be interrupted mid air by any form of CC, even gound-based abilities like Jinx Chompers and Veigar's cage, and any good Thresh player will tell you how easy it is to bait and stop a Trist dash.
It is not skill expression. Especially due to latency and many other things going on it is mostly luck that causes people to get the jump properly. If I flash to stun the enemy Tristana i expect to stun her and stop her if I hit cc. Not get cockblock because her dumb jump got luckily buffered 0.01 sec before my cc hit. This is bullsht. And stop telling me about not being good enough. You are hard stuck silver for 5 seasons and you can't even climb abusing the most broken role in the game. Talk about being good.
OP means that you can buffer her W, so that if you get hit by Morg Q for example, the jump still goes through and get rooted when you land, essentially making the root useless. Same happens for Reksai tunnels as well. The only CC that can cancel these dashes are displacements. How convenient by the way. The only form of CC that is unaffected by tenacity is the only form that can stop dashes as well.
"Unstoppable BTW"
is your friend.
The biggest abusers of this are Trist and Ezreal. You can still CC Trist out of her jump as long as you land it after she started the jump, just not if she has started CASTING it and inbetween actually jumping. Ezreal's different since he has no travel time on his escape, but until late game, Ezreal's E being forced out means he can't do much. Late game, he can E repeatedly after 2-3 Q's, but at that point, your crit ADC should be outscaling him anyway, so it's not such a huge deal.
As someone who used to instalock Thresh into Trist when people played her-- if you cancel her rocket jump she is INSANELY vulnerable. It would NOT be balanced. They'd have to buff her stats in response.
Then you're in a situation where, if you don't cancel her W, you are 2 X more screwed.
Can we make ranged autos also able to miss if someone side steps them?