Zed needs some serious changes

Clint Orris·Sep 30, 2015·2 votes·694 views

This champion feels like a double edged sword.

He's an assassin that has an amazing laning phase, ton of mobility, great wave clear potential and tons of damage and sustain.

However he forces AP champions to rush an expensive item which cripples them in the early game as they are unable to harass well due having not much mana to expend, mana regeneration or any type of sustain.

Also, after that midlander builds that item Zed's killing potential of that enemy is severely weakened to the point where Zed has to try and ult someone which then gives the enemy midlander to do as they wish.

Where is the middle ground here?!

14 Comments

SwapShadowsSep 30, 20152 votes

He also has to get hexdrinker, it's not like you just rush botrk against an annie.

also zhonyas doesn't cripple most mages, the only way it can hurt is by losing that early 20% cdr from morellos but aside from that all mages can manage mana effectively.

WalkingInACircleSep 30, 20151 votes

No, you can't skill mana into magically regenerating faster.

SwapShadowsSep 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

No, you can't skill mana into magically regenerating faster.

no but you can use skill to not be a complete moron that uses spells for every single CS wave

WalkingInACircleSep 30, 20151 votes

Unlike a Zed, who gets to harass 5 times a wave.

SwapShadowsSep 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Unlike a Zed, who gets to harass 5 times a wave.

except to actually harass he needs to use 3 spells which takes near 20 seconds to use again, god forbid you actually miss.

also just his Q harass does horrible damage with damage reduction so theres that.

WalkingInACircleSep 30, 20151 votes

No, he only needs to cast a shuriken, and its damage is pretty average.

Norr1NSep 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Unlike a Zed, who gets to harass 5 times a wave.

Uses all of energy + shadow + skills to clear wave, has no means of harassing ranged foe = tie if lucky enough to have an enemy who's bad at mana conservation/last hitting. Uses above spell rotation to harass enemy, has no means of waveclear so forced into melee vs said ranged foe = gets zoned to shit or dumped on for up to 18 seconds. Ult made useless by an early/mid-game item which is core on 90% of APs and conveniently consists of both defensive AND offensive stats whilst also being insanely cost-efficient and having an amazing recipe. Gets countered by standard armor which everyone gets per level unlike MR which remains at base or a fixed value regardless of whether you're a tank or a carry giving AP mages more targets to choose from/less concerned with who to blow spells/burst on in contrast. Gains no energy/lvl also makes it more difficult to keep up past laning (making building CDR fairly useless), especially with slowed down shadows and delays thrown in cuz "needz moar counterplayz", with no other means of defence/CC like charms/bonus movement speed/invisibility/resets/etc (with his only tool; his shadows, inevitably leaving him a sitting duck for 10.5s #YAY?# in the middle of an enemy team with the basic grasp of the concept of grouping late game/activating items/justuseExhaustHealShieldInvulorsimplyCChim), and nerfed splitpush cuz why not who needs to be useful at all = gg mr assassin.

Balance is a lie.

P.S. Try not standing in the middle of a wave next time.

BakedLotionSep 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Uses all of energy + shadow + skills to clear wave, has no means of harrassing ranged foe = tie if lucky. Uses above to harass enemy, has no means of waveclear so forced into melee vs ranged foe = gets zoned to shit or dumped on for x seconds. Ult made useless by an early/mid-game item which is core on 90% of APs. Gains no energy/lvl also makes it more difficult to keep up past laning, especially with slowed down shadows and delays thrown in cuz "needz moar counterplayz", with no other means of defence/CC like charms/movement speeds/invisibility/resets/etc, and nerfed splitpush = gg mr assassin.

Balance is a lie.

lol press w press e press q, minions completely gone and u might have hit the enemy too. Why does he need to engage on you after? He can just keep doing that till you're low on mana under turret and rape you.

SwapShadowsSep 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

lol press w press e press q, minions completely gone and u might have hit the enemy too. Why does he need to engage on you after? He can just keep doing that till you're low on mana under turret and rape you.

what type of retard are you? be honest.

Norr1NSep 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No, you can't skill mana into magically regenerating faster.

Yes, because mana-based mages don't gain mana/lvl and have 0 regeneration stats but should totally be able to spam abilities endlessly with maxed out CDR runes/masteries at level 1.

Also, you do realise energy champs have a trade off as in they gain some lane sustain via energy (and even then on a melee champ and with no sustain to HP like half the AP champs out there half of those whom also come with hard CC e.g. Ahri, Cassio, Akali, Vlad, Morde, Morgana, Swain, Ryze, Cho, etc.), but since it's a limited amount it falls off hard past laning/once enemy has chalice since it doesn't matter how much CDR he builds, Zed can't cast abilities if he Has. No. Energy.

Which is what he gives up for that earlier lane dominance. I.e. The way he uses his spells within a brief period of time is a lot riskier than a mage who probably only expends 5% of their mana (vs 60%+ energy at max rank too for W-Q-E all in one basic telegraphed rotation) casting an equivalent spell later in the match whilst having almost half his cooldowns since actually being able to make USE of CDR which is just a wasted stat/gold on energy champs for the most part. In short, if you're okay with only having like 200 mana and being able to cast your spells once every 10-20s AND stuck being melee for the entire game, sure you can have infinite mana regen. xp

WalkingInACircleSep 30, 20151 votes

None of that had anything to do with anything I said. "Manage your mana" is not a magical solution. Conserving your abilities for when they are most efficient maximizes your mana potential, but it still means not getting the most out of your kit.

Also, as with all energy champs Zed has built in energy sustain. He can build additional energy through runes, as well. And his energy costs drop as his skills level, so his economy does in fact scale. And mana is bought by mages, it doesn't appear in their inventory.

SwapShadowsSep 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

None of that had anything to do with anything I said. "Manage your mana" is not a magical solution. Conserving your abilities for when they are most efficient maximizes your mana potential, but it still means not getting the most out of your kit.

Also, as with all energy champs Zed has built in energy sustain. He can build additional energy through runes, as well. And his energy costs drop as his skills level, so his economy does in fact scale. And mana is bought by mages, it doesn't appear in their inventory.

lmao energy runes....

please go play club penguin.

WalkingInACircleSep 30, 20151 votes

Hey, if its such a horrible restriction, why don't you give up that mr for some?

Oh right, because Zed's full combo at level 18 cost him 45 energy if he hits.

Norr1NSep 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

None of that had anything to do with anything I said. "Manage your mana" is not a magical solution. Conserving your abilities for when they are most efficient maximizes your mana potential, but it still means not getting the most out of your kit.

Also, as with all energy champs Zed has built in energy sustain. He can build additional energy through runes, as well. And his energy costs drop as his skills level, so his economy does in fact scale. And mana is bought by mages, it doesn't appear in their inventory.

You want to get the most out of a kit without having to worry about mana convervation... this isn't URF. How do you plan on balancing that, since it seems like what you want is to remove resources from the game just so you can freely spam more of your champion's abilities without much thought even after acknowledging how inefficient that would be. Or, alternatively, you can git gud.

Also, energy runes, really? Not to mention Zed has probably the worst energy-return mechanic amongst energy users, not that they're amazing to begin with, considering it relies entirely on using up his main escape and then landing multiple skillshots concurrently otherwise he's at risk of having not enough energy to carry out his next move in time (hence the skillcap making sense). "Mana is bought by mages".. O'rly? I had no idea... I'm done lol.