Meddler what happened to the new Lissandra passive you were working on?

Nausicäa ·Nov 26, 2014·6 votes·7,315 views

Since she didnt get her mana regen changed with the rest of the mages are you any closer to changing her passive?

31 Comments

RiotMeddlerNov 26, 201414 votes

Tried a number of variants on shield passives, didn't find a version that generated engaging gameplay for her however (just added tankiness basically). Would still like to find a more satisfying passive for her, want something that creates some interesting decisions though, particularly if its adding significant power.

Not sure why her base mana wasn't changed with the standardization of other mages, will follow up on that, check if deliberate decision or overlooked.

Nausicäa Nov 26, 20141 votes

Cool thanks for the response.

Id still really like to see her Q range increased at least a small amount. Maybe some kind of kind of temporary buff that increases her spell ranges by a small amount stacking every time a target it slowed?

exe3Nov 26, 20147 votes

What if a shield was attached to her W instead of her passive. eg: she gains a shield whose strength scales with with number of enemy champions rooted. As an all-in short range champion she would definitely appreciate the extra tankiness even if it doesn't change her play pattern too much (you still want to root as many enemies as possible anyway).

19 19 19Nov 26, 20141 votes

What if a shield was attached to her W instead of her passive. eg: she gains a shield whose strength scales with with number of enemy champions rooted. As an all-in short range champion she would definitely appreciate the extra tankiness even if it doesn't change her play pattern too much (you still want to root as many enemies as possible anyway).

omg pls no you're making me think of Evelynn ult.

My Idea Passive: After casting 4 spells, Lissandra's next spell will open a hidden passive for one of her skills. (Her helmet will light up in a certain color to notify the enemy that her passive is in place or a mist of coldness surrounds her body )

Q: Hidden Passive The shard that passes through a target has an Increase width W: Hidden Passive Inflicts slow movement speed E: Hidden Passive Cool down is reduced after Glacial path is used R: Hidden Passive Enemies who are in range of Frozen Tomb are stunned for 1.25 Seconds

People might debate on that R but last time I checked Lissandra ""Flesh freezes so easily."

Klax002saurNov 26, 20142 votes

What if her ice applied a stacking damage debuff? She's already anti-assassin in nature and a passive like that i think would solidify that role

Colgate MinuetteNov 26, 20142 votes

Tried a number of variants on shield passives, didn't find a version that generated engaging gameplay for her.

Could always do some weird passive where every time she stuns an enemy champion her cooldowns are reduced by a small percentage.

That way if you actually wanted to use our ability's more often you would need to be engaging. Using the Q to get right in the middle of the team and stunning all 5 just so you could get like a 5-7 second cooldown reduction on your ability's. (Of course that might be extreme, but the numbers are not my forte here)

Perhaps each stun could reduce the cooldown of her ult.

If you're looking for something that makes her want to engage on enemy champs then I would stack it somehow off her stuns, or her ult. Maybe even off her Q in the form of every enemy hit after the initial impact (Shattering of the Q spraying behind the initial enemy hitting others behind it) It could reduce the cooldown of W or just cooldowns in general.

Tho that might make some people item 3070

Fed by Snu SnuNov 26, 20147 votes

By the way, since her passive will be irrelevant after the final change, can we also have the much needed (and logical) change of her Q actually being an AoE slow instead of just a single target?

She currently doesn't have it because she would lower the cd of the passive by 6 with each attempt to clear a wave, so from a balancing point it does make some sense, but it the passive is no longer relevant, it would be a neat and much needed change.

On the debate about the actual passive though.

Also, would adding more utility for the team be a passive up for debate? Like a way to reduce armor(not a typo, just a way of supporting the team's AD members) to your targets or somehow shift your movement speed slows to attack speed slows (with mitigated results, like 1/4 or 1/3 obviously), etc.

Or, since her damage output has been shifted towards her Q so heavily, maybe a stacking mechanic. This could help her deal with tanks for example by having a small amount of % dmg in there. Nothing too strong though, just something like "the first target hit with Ice Shard will have a X stack applied to them. Ring of Frost will apply a X stack if it roots only a single target. Max stacks of 5. Upon casting Frozen Tomb on the target, the stacks are consumed and deal an extra 2% of max hp as magic damage per stack."

This gives an incentive to play around a little before casting Frozen Tomb, stacking up with Ice shard. Additionally, since it's the first target hit only, the lane poke wouldn't contribute to this. In general, it gives a reason for her to do an extended close combat skirmish in order to have the maximum possible damage output. In general, we are talking about ~6-8 seconds of having to be in medium range before going for the tomb.

Whether you find these passives possible or not, please take into serious consideration the Q buff if her passive goes, because it something that she could use, since all her utility is soft-cc(except for frozen tomb), she should at least have a decent amount of it.

JingerbeardmanNov 26, 20141 votes

it was deliberate because of how her passive functions...

Kowe The EwokNov 26, 20141 votes

Suggestion: (New Passive:) Impairing Ice Lissandra's abilities apply 1 stack each for 4 seconds. Upon hitting 3 stacks enemies will be unable to use dashes for 1.75 seconds.

Flash and "Blinks" (Kassadin, Ezreal) still work.

This would fit her overall identity and concept of CC reliant mage who impairs enemy movement and rewards continious successful skillshots.

At the same time it would grant here a great spot in competitive play as well as a champion which possibly lowers the mobility creep of the enemy and your own team. (E.g. They picked Zed, Lee, Kalista, Leona, Maokai)

5G8Nri0B54Nov 26, 20141 votes

Does absolutely nothing to help her survive being an up-close mage though.

Kowe The EwokNov 26, 20141 votes

Neitehr does her current passive. I feel like tankiness might break her. She gets nice CC but has to endanger herself, feels like a fair trade off.

5G8Nri0B54Nov 27, 20141 votes

"nice" is about where her CC ends.

She's also incredibly prone to pokes or any ranged harass. And she is encouraged to go for a certain play-style she isn't build for outside of a relatively high cooldown ultimate.

19 19 19Nov 27, 20141 votes

"nice" is about where her CC ends.

She's also incredibly prone to pokes or any ranged harass. And she is encouraged to go for a certain play-style she isn't build for outside of a relatively high cooldown ultimate.

Annie <--- she burst and can stun as much times as she likes. Lissandra doesn't have any burst until WAYYYYYYYYY late game, annie starts bursting mid game and can CC an entire team like Lissandra. Difference is, Lissandra stuns one person while everyone else is slowed by movement speed but that doesn't stop them or change the plays since most champs who are coming out have "mobility"

CoolKnightSTNov 26, 20141 votes

What about this:

Lissandra gain a stack on her passive every time she damage an enemy champion with her basic attacks or abilities. While reaching 6 stacks she gain a shield that block the next incoming projectile and returns splash magic damage that also briefly slows the enemy.

MrBuffingtonNov 26, 20141 votes

Just wondering if her passive is changed from the free spell, if her Mana costs will be adjusted accordingly. 85 mana on Q early is kind of rough without it...

Edit: just reading some other ideas, wanted to toss in my hat. What if Lissandra has a passive that slowly stacks, up to a cap, say 5. Each stack grants her bonus resistances, however, each spell she casts consumes one stack and grants bonus damage/utility (maybe applies a debuff like others are saying). This hopefully creates the interesting play between saving stacks to be tanky or using them to deal more damage (sort of like how Ori can keep the ball on herself for resistances or send it out to apply pressure), and sort of fits with her old playstyle of waiting longer between spell casts for the free spell. Thematically it's like she's gathering ice that she uses as armor, but also consumes to use as a weapon.

19 19 19Nov 26, 20141 votes

Tried a number of variants on shield passives, didn't find a version that generated engaging gameplay for her however (just added tankiness basically). Would still like to find a more satisfying passive for her, want something that creates some interesting decisions though, particularly if its adding significant power.

Not sure why her base mana wasn't changed with the standardization of other mages, will follow up on that, check if deliberate decision or overlooked.

I made a thread about Lissandra new passive and others to join to maybe help you give an idea ?

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ZtsHrox1-riotmeddler-creating-a-new-lissandra-passive

SilverStormNov 26, 20141 votes

I have a suggestion for a passive. :D

I think something like Katarina's old killer instincts, or Karma's mantra but on a lesser scale would suit Lissandra, where every time her passive comes off of cooldown, her next basic ability is modified. It would encourage interesting decision making on both sides of a lane, where both Liss and her opponent would want to keep tabs on whether her passive is up or not.

Given her identity as a CC mage, I think it would be most fitting if the changes were relayed solely to her CC rather than damage.

For instance:

Passive : Iceborn

Lissandra's next ability gains an additional effect.

Ice Shard: Gains X% slow. Ring of Frost: Gains .X seconds snare. Glacial Path: Slows enemies by X% around Lissandra when cast. (More helpful for escapes.) Frozen Tomb: Slows enemies by an additional X%.

I didn't bother adding numbers, since I'm not a game balancer. xD But anyway, I think a passive like this would be cool, but also add a LOT of balancing levers to Lissandra to add or remove power as needed, and I think each effect has it's own benefits; there wouldn't be only one ability the player would use it on. It would depend on the situation. Some are great for initiating and some are better for escaping.

The time-based thing might be difficult for players, but I think a charge system like Annie's could be used for more reliability.

Also, obviously, you could change the effects, like maybe it's more fitting for a charged q to slow all targets hit instead, or for a charged e to reduce the cooldown. There's a lot of options. xD

hakE69Nov 27, 20141 votes

Based on what you just said. Why not giving the next ability an effect? depending on the skill you use.

Like: "each X seconds, Lissandra's next ability has an extra effect: Q: Extra damage; W; 1s extra root duration; E: 300 extra range"

Wouldn't it add more interesting decisions?

Leaf of the lakeDec 5, 20141 votes

Making it based on time probably wouldn't feel very good to the lissandra player, since that's not very interactive. Something happening every Xth ability cast would be cool, though. Would synergize well with her low CD Q, but she could also spam other abilities to bring it up quicker.

Samflash3Nov 27, 20141 votes

Serious question.

Do you think Lissandra should be nerfed or gutted?

Choose wisely Darius

(lol jk). But are there any plans for Ashe?

JhamanNov 27, 20141 votes

Auto attacks against enemy champions apply Black Ice. When Lissandra hits someone with an ability all stacks of black ice are consumed and the cooldown of the ability that triggered the Black Ice is reduced by 1 second per stack.

MansanaNov 27, 20142 votes

May I suggest giving her some sort of ice trail mechanic? I saw a rioter post something about a foot print mechanic that would increase movement speed.

My suggestion is allow Lissandra to leave a trail of ice behind her for a few seconds as she walks forward. Walking back on the same route of ice will increase her movement speed.

Or you can make her spells do that... If Q hits, aoe ice field is left in the direction of the shattered ice, w leaves a patch of ice that lasts longer than usual, using her E over ice increases the missile speed of it, her ult already visually does that. idk, just giving some thoughts cause for having a long cdr mobility spell i don't think 325 movement speed is quite helpful compared to the likes of other assassin's who have gap closer's and >340 movement speed. Not saying she's an assassin but... Not sure how op it would be but it's something interesting I would like to see.

DazedBeesDec 3, 20142 votes

May I suggest giving her some sort of ice trail mechanic? I saw a rioter post something about a foot print mechanic that would increase movement speed.

My suggestion is allow Lissandra to leave a trail of ice behind her for a few seconds as she walks forward. Walking back on the same route of ice will increase her movement speed.

Or you can make her spells do that... If Q hits, aoe ice field is left in the direction of the shattered ice, w leaves a patch of ice that lasts longer than usual, using her E over ice increases the missile speed of it, her ult already visually does that. idk, just giving some thoughts cause for having a long cdr mobility spell i don't think 325 movement speed is quite helpful compared to the likes of other assassin's who have gap closer's and >340 movement speed. Not saying she's an assassin but... Not sure how op it would be but it's something interesting I would like to see.

This is defiantly the best idea here, especially if you make all her spells have an interaction with, or cause an ice trail. imagine getting tagged by Q only to have the claw pretty much leap at you near the end. Not to mention how worthless her claw is as an escape as most times you have to use it at 1/10th it's range out of fear of hard CC.

KevinDelMarrNov 26, 20141 votes

I had an idea for a Lissandra passive, where a % of damage dealt to Champions by her spells (heavily reduced against minions) is returned as a shield. She can have a maximum shield based on level and max HP and AP (one or the other as well). Thematically it would as if when her spell hits things it shatters, and she reabsorbs the crystals as a shield. It would accumulate and stay either permanently or for a long time, slowly disappearing as if it's melting (not sure how to work around True Ice). To balance it taking damage prevents shield generation for a time, and if she Ult herself she doesn't gain shield strength (because she had invincibility and she's technically untargetable), you could even make the shield generation have a small delay to give a small window.

Nausicäa Nov 27, 20142 votes

So.. basically morde passive......

GodEmperorOfDuneNov 26, 20141 votes

She's supposed to be ice based, how about a on hit proc slow on a timer. It gives her some more interaction with her op and shouldn't be too powerful since she has a really close AA range.

calforraiNov 26, 20141 votes

whatever the change is please don't remove her current passive. it basically encourages you to hit your abilities on as many enemy targets as you can, so you can quickly get your passive up again. smh at people who builds athene on lissandra, how can you possibly need athene with a passive that good at reducing mana usage.

Captain VolibearNov 26, 20141 votes

Is Zyra's passive something being looked at? That one always seemed the most useless to me. Looks cool, but hard to aim due to the long delay and doesn't do hardly any damage.

Lissandra's doesn't seem bad. But if mana passives are on their way out (this and Cass's make me wonder if Veigar's next?), I like the idea of something to help her dive. Maybe make her CC spells last longer based on some condition, maybe based on having more enemies around her.

Jouki In RageNov 27, 20141 votes

How about

Passive: Frozen Ground Every 30/20/15 seconds Lissandra freeze (stuns) her enemy by spell for 0.8/0.9/1 second

You can play with numbers and additionaly if you choose weak numbers you can add splash effect:

Lissandra gains bonus movement speed 15% for 0.5 second per affected enemy. (0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds)

The second one you can imagine she could move faster on frozen ground. She has every spell with "freezing someone" so we can support her glacial character with this passive :)

19 19 19Nov 27, 20142 votes

How about

Passive: Frozen Ground Every 30/20/15 seconds Lissandra freeze (stuns) her enemy by spell for 0.8/0.9/1 second

You can play with numbers and additionaly if you choose weak numbers you can add splash effect:

Lissandra gains bonus movement speed 15% for 0.5 second per affected enemy. (0.5/1.5/2/2.5/3 seconds)