As the title says, anyone who disagrees with the above statement is retarded af and most likely biased because dislike/like in sequence the champions stated above.
Riot we need balance please.
Nerf the range on Veigar's R and reduce the base dmg if you intend to have it scale with other people's ap.
Malaborath9 votesTwisted fate main here and i'd like to say, I hate you. You are wrong, he is amazing, and if you think otherwise youre probably bronze.
EDIT: HE IS BRONZE 5 IT ALL MAKES SENSE
Privileged Jew2 votesTwisted fate main here and i'd like to say, I hate you. You are wrong, he is amazing, and if you think otherwise youre probably bronze.
EDIT: HE IS BRONZE 5 IT ALL MAKES SENSE
I was thinking the same thing. I also think it's possible that he's trolling.
ExecutorDill1 votesTwisted fate main here and i'd like to say, I hate you. You are wrong, he is amazing, and if you think otherwise youre probably bronze.
EDIT: HE IS BRONZE 5 IT ALL MAKES SENSE
LMAO, fk off! any idiot could say he is a tf main. Like how you saw my current rank i'd like to see proof of you maining TF....
Malaborath6 votesLMAO, fk off! any idiot could say he is a tf main. Like how you saw my current rank i'd like to see proof of you maining TF....
Trídent3 votesrekt
Phenyxs2 votesTwisted fate main here and i'd like to say, I hate you. You are wrong, he is amazing, and if you think otherwise youre probably bronze.
EDIT: HE IS BRONZE 5 IT ALL MAKES SENSE
Can you give me some advice on TF? I love the champ but struggling with his high mana issue and early power struggle. Teams like to push hard when the bell rings and I can't seem to find a adjustment for it. I have researched him high and low . I have a suitable setup I guess for a more typical situation. I been trying to play him more in matches when possible and have a good game and then get rolled on next game. Doesn't help when jg feeds my mid and there jg likes to take shots all game. I am curious. Using him isn't hard. The power he should have seems weak and the mana is huge issue.
Chaotic Reks1 voteshigh mana issue
blue card
early power struggle
blue card
The power he should have seems weak and the mana is huge issue.
blue card
Malaborath1 votesCan you give me some advice on TF? I love the champ but struggling with his high mana issue and early power struggle. Teams like to push hard when the bell rings and I can't seem to find a adjustment for it. I have researched him high and low . I have a suitable setup I guess for a more typical situation. I been trying to play him more in matches when possible and have a good game and then get rolled on next game. Doesn't help when jg feeds my mid and there jg likes to take shots all game. I am curious. Using him isn't hard. The power he should have seems weak and the mana is huge issue.
Well, ill stream at 7 PM EST playing only tf and go over it than. check it out if youre interested http://www.twitch.tv/epicgamegiant/
Buff Azír1 votesim a tf main too a twisted fate totally rekts a veigar
Sasogwa5 votesNot sure if retarded or trolling. Twisted Fate is a strong common pick in high elo, whereas Veigar is weak AF right now. 45 % winrate, desperately dependant on his team and only good in teamfights.
I'd go for the second option. Trolling is more likely.
ExecutorDill1 votesNot sure if retarded or trolling. Twisted Fate is a strong common pick in high elo, whereas Veigar is weak AF right now. 45 % winrate, desperately dependant on his team and only good in teamfights.
I'd go for the second option. Trolling is more likely.
You guys follow winrate to religously, I watch lcs alot, probs more than you. I believe TF needs a slight buff.
Malaborath1 votesYou guys follow winrate to religously, I watch lcs alot, probs more than you. I believe TF needs a slight buff.
I main tf and i disagree with this. I have about 4 solo pentas among 3 accounts on TF, and i mean SOLO, no help at all. if positioned right, he can burst an entire team.
ExecutorDill1 votesI main tf and i disagree with this. I have about 4 solo pentas among 3 accounts on TF, and i mean SOLO, no help at all. if positioned right, he can burst an entire team.
Who in their right mind would disagree with buffs to their main? Are you trolling sir?
Malaborath1 votesWho in their right mind would disagree with buffs to their main? Are you trolling sir?
If he got buffed, he would be permabanned directly affecting me. I'd be pissed. See why i dont want that shit?
ExecutorDill1 votesIf he got buffed, he would be permabanned directly affecting me. I'd be pissed. See why i dont want that shit?
It's not I think he needs a buff in damage (even though he's out damaged when everyone hits full build, quite often before the time) even after the damage nerf to his Q. I just wish he had a much easier time against high mobile champs. Fizz and Yas aren't so bad if you can bait out their abilities that'd negate your stun, but people like Zed and Ahri dumpster me whether I play aggressive or passive and when they hit 6 I feel as if it is a handicap match.
I just really wish he had some bit of utility that'd allow him negate/remove CC like 
or 
or atleast gain some move speed or some bonus move spd/ aa range for doing something that's hard to do. His playstyle is so binary that even non pro players know what to look out for when playing against him. I played against a TF to as Jhin mid lane, I actually wanted to play Yas or TF but yas was banned and he got the TF so I went Jhin as I know my ranged harass would prove to much for an average tf player. All I had to do was back off when he picked stun and when it was gone I'd go in and kill him, I didn't even have to avoid his slow a$$ Q's as they didn't do much to me surprisingly but that might be because I got him behind and rushed 
which also allowed me to break free from his stuns.
All I want him to have is a bit of counterplay, something that could spice up his playstyle and would be balanced so people don't cry about how broken he is. As you can see how many by my number of dislikes.
Malaborath1 votesIt's not I think he needs a buff in damage (even though he's out damaged when everyone hits full build, quite often before the time) even after the damage nerf to his Q. I just wish he had a much easier time against high mobile champs. Fizz and Yas aren't so bad if you can bait out their abilities that'd negate your stun, but people like Zed and Ahri dumpster me whether I play aggressive or passive and when they hit 6 I feel as if it is a handicap match.
I just really wish he had some bit of utility that'd allow him negate/remove CC like
All I want him to have is a bit of counterplay, something that could spice up his playstyle and would be balanced so people don't cry about how broken he is. As you can see how many by my number of dislikes.
The literal only thing i have trouble with on him is Aurelion Sol. It takes practice, but all that shit disappears lategame. plus you bait sivir e with your q. GP you just blue card. easy to win.
WarlockLaw3 votesChampion.gg has Veigar at under a 45% winrate and places him at 42nd out of 48 for role position.
Twisted Fate is at a 50% winrate and is placed 14th
Seems to me, based on these stats, TF is fine while Veigar is a tad weak. Based on my personal experience both are more or less fine relative to immobile ap burst mages, however ap itemization seems weaker than ad itemization.
ExecutorDill1 votesChampion.gg has Veigar at under a 45% winrate and places him at 42nd out of 48 for role position.
Twisted Fate is at a 50% winrate and is placed 14th
Seems to me, based on these stats, TF is fine while Veigar is a tad weak. Based on my personal experience both are more or less fine relative to immobile ap burst mages, however ap itemization seems weaker than ad itemization.
stahp looking at fking winrates. Matches are 5v5 not 1v1. Especially at lower elos your whole team decides the outcome and if you did good but they lost you the game, that caters to a decrease in winrate on the champ you played EVEN IF YOU DID GOOD.
Trídent3 votesRiot doesn't really care about low elo, they balance off of high elo.
And in high elo, Veigar is insanely weak and TF is fine.
ExecutorDill1 votesRiot doesn't really care about low elo, they balance off of high elo.
And in high elo, Veigar is insanely weak and TF is fine.
With that statement said. Why did they adjust Lee Sin's passive energy regain to make him more noob friendly? Why did they go through with the Azir changes. If you haven't noticed it's the non-pro players who put the mass majority of money into this game, and they ought to be catering to them.
Trídent3 votesI said they don't really care, not that they don't care at all, they still care a little bit.
Sightless661 votesif you did good but they lost you the game, that caters to a decrease in winrate on the champ you played EVEN IF YOU DID GOOD.
The same applies if you did poorly but they carried you. Statistically, all we need to correct for that source of error is a reasonable sample sample size. Randomness based on teammates is not a valid statistical complaint when you have a large sample size. The game being 5v5 isn't one of the reasons why want statistics other than winrate. We use other stats because champion usagbe is situational, and we need to evaluate the situations the champion is played in to see if the winrate is inflated. The game being 5v5 is not part of that concern.
The thing is, none of the other stats about TF suggest that he's weak. He's reasonably highly-played. He sees competitive play. He's had consistent results for many patches in a row. He's not being played solely as a counter to specific team comps. He don't have a particularly higher preformance in low or high elo. Those are things we don't expect to see if a champion's winrate is inflated.
So, why should we think TF is underpowered? What statistic says he is?
ExecutorDill1 votesThe same applies if you did poorly but they carried you. Statistically, all we need to correct for that source of error is a reasonable sample sample size. Randomness based on teammates is not a valid statistical complaint when you have a large sample size. The game being 5v5 isn't one of the reasons why want statistics other than winrate. We use other stats because champion usagbe is situational, and we need to evaluate the situations the champion is played in to see if the winrate is inflated. The game being 5v5 is not part of that concern.
The thing is, none of the other stats about TF suggest that he's weak. He's reasonably highly-played. He sees competitive play. He's had consistent results for many patches in a row. He's not being played solely as a counter to specific team comps. He don't have a particularly higher preformance in low or high elo. Those are things we don't expect to see if a champion's winrate is inflated.
So, why should we think TF is underpowered? What statistic says he is?
Sightless661 votesUm, did you want to write a response, or just quote everything I said? Am I missing a joke here?
WarlockLaw1 votesThat site specifically looks at Plat+ ranked games across all servers. Bad play and bad teammates is not a factor in their statistics. Riot quite likely evaluates champions in a manner similar to what champion.gg ranks champions in roles, therefore it is worthwhile to mention them in a discussion like this. Obviously winrates aren't end-all, be-all and that is why I included their ranking system. Whether you like it or not, a majority of people who have visited this thread appear to disagree with your evaluation of these champions. Unless you can provide some hard, undeniable evidence for your op post, it would appear you are just wrong.
Woook3r3 votesanyone that isnt complaining about sated devourer is invalid.
Zero Skill Tank1 votesactually iz dolan
Privileged Jew1 votesDon't take the bait guys.
AnonymousPoro1 votesYou actually got it backwards, however TF isn't broken. Sitting at a 50.6% win rate, he's actually pretty balanced. Not too strong, not too weak, but right in the middle where he needs to be.
Veigar's got a 44.7% win rate. He could actually use some light buffs.
ExecutorDill1 votesYou actually got it backwards, however TF isn't broken. Sitting at a 50.6% win rate, he's actually pretty balanced. Not too strong, not too weak, but right in the middle where he needs to be.
Veigar's got a 44.7% win rate. He could actually use some light buffs.
Am I missing something? the dude has 260% AP scaling across his 3 damage abilities, Q base: 230, W Base: 300, R base: 350. can stack 1k ap and his ult still scales with 80% of his enemy's AP. not to mention his passive helps him out with mana sustain at a fair amount.
Any jackdonkey could take 
and do what TF can to a certain extent.
AnonymousPoro1 votesAm I missing something? the dude has 260% AP scaling across his 3 damage abilities, Q base: 230, W Base: 300, R base: 350. can stack 1k ap and his ult still scales with 80% of his enemy's AP. not to mention his passive helps him out with mana sustain at a fair amount.
Any jackdonkey could take
But, in trade off for that power, he's literally one of the squishest champs in the entirety of League of Legends. He has a measly base health of 1900. Champs like TF, Zed, or Syndra burst him down so much that he has to back every two minutes.
But the difference between TF's ult and Teleport is that TF gets to(basically) see where every person on the entire map and teleport to them without having to have a ward or minion. It's great for ganking lanes that need help, saving your tower, getting the last hit on an escaped enemy, or, just get to the place you need to go fast.
Dasdi961 votesVeigar has been low tier since the brutal gutting of mage itemization in patch 5.22. He did not get compensation buffs he desperately needed.
ExecutorDill1 votesVeigar has been low tier since the brutal gutting of mage itemization in patch 5.22. He did not get compensation buffs he desperately needed.
I could first try veigar and get tons of kills with him, he's safe af. The fact that his aoe stun is on a delay now makes his zone power all that more oppressive against melee champs, and he can kite the backline more efficiently now his Q hits 2 targets. Not to mention his ult has a big a$$ range. People talk sht about zhonyas but you can't use any actives while your stunned and his stun last a pretty dam long time give him ample time to press R to win.
Drakusatheon1 voteshow cna tf b weak he iz an x man????
DrNova1 votesAt first I thought this was a troll post, but the guy is legit arguing his stupid post, so now I'm confused.
Lazypeon1001 votesI don't really play either of them, but both are pretty balanced right now. I like how you assume anyone who disagrees with you is retarded though.
Rock MD1 votesI don't really play either of them, but both are pretty balanced right now. I like how you assume anyone who disagrees with you is retarded though.
TF is fine. He's got enough utility to be useful but he's not particularly amazing.
Veigar though is in the fucking gutter I don't know who you're kidding.
Lazypeon1001 votesI should have clarified my statement more earlier. I had meant neither are really OP. Veigar is kind of weak right now, though I think when the mage update cones out he might rise in popularity again due to people playing more mages.
Or he could stay right where he is at, which would be meh.
TheLittlestLulu1 votesbronze 5 thread
Moesnd1 votesTwisted fate is balanced, veigar a bit underpowered.
I have 0 bias because i play neither of these champions
TendajiX1 votesTwisted fate requires intelligent play and when played properly, TF is one of the most powerful/impactful champions in the game. Veigar is broken af tho.