Nocturne Insane Buff on PBE

Ahristocats·Aug 25, 2016·31 votes·5,498 views

Nocturne Unspeakable Horror (E) terrify duration increased to 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5 from 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/08/825-pbe-update.html

i really don't know what to think about this. Nocturne's E is incredibly healthy since the cast range is lower than thresh's AA range, and it has 2 seconds delay.

but on the other hand, it's 2.5 seconds, only morgana beats it with 3 seconds on her Q, and it's a fear, not a stun. but on the other hand, 0.5 seconds on his cc might breaks him since nocturne only needs a small buff.

what's your opinion?

131 Comments

Aatrox Mid 1v5Aug 25, 201628 votes

oh no its morgana all over again

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/55/55e28c9695627dbf5e9665c0db31663a1f5feab078c0e4a76644a81bd2e28c77.jpg

9001TeemosAug 26, 201632 votes

Just dodge the fear

MuskillerAug 26, 20161 votes

[deleted]

El Death TacoAug 26, 201613 votes

{quoted}

... Are you dumb or have you never fought a noc you can't dodge his fear you have to get out of his range so you have to flash or be faster than him like or e

And that sarcasm went over someone's head...

zlumpyAug 26, 20163 votes

It's a bird! It's a plane!

Wait no nvm it's just a joke...

kile147Aug 26, 20162 votes

And pink the Nidalee Spear

iMaB3ASTAug 26, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=free software,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=el0Qmu0V,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-08-25T19:45:27.871+0000)

oh no its morgana all over again

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/55/55e28c9695627dbf5e9665c0db31663a1f5feab078c0e4a76644a81bd2e28c77.jpg

TBH you are at least moving away from him

Kanzaki RankoAug 25, 201617 votes

Nocturne is sleeper right now, won't be surprised to see nerfs after this patch for him

Qiy4naAug 26, 20168 votes

nocturne has been a sleeper forever

RocketRelmAug 26, 201617 votes

Reading this within the context of Nocturne's lore is amusing.

Qiy4naAug 26, 20164 votes

ayy lmao

RisenDarkKnightAug 25, 201612 votes

Yeah this seems like too much of a buff to me. It's really hard for champion with no escapes to avoid his fear if they are isolated (since his ult guarantees he will reach them without being kited first). Before, there was a chance for a strong duelist/split pusher to duel nocturne if he got ulted, but now noct will pretty much autowin those duels unless gets blown up in the 2 seconds of the tether (or the person he jumped on has flash and noct doesn't).

I do think the .5 second buff to early game is warranted as the 1 second fear is too short for a 2 second tether IMO, but I think it could just scale from 1.5 to 2 seconds or 1.25 to 2.25. 1.5 to 2.5 is probably too much.

WoonStruckAug 26, 20163 votes

Why are people upvoting this when its only a 25% increase in duration late game, when he almost never gets it off, and he has to wait 2 seconds for it either way.

It could have a 3-4 second duration and still be one of the most balanced and fair forms of CC in this game. If you get feared by Nocturne, you deserve to die. Simple as that. This is just pushing that further, since they don't want to buff its reliability as an alternative.

RisenDarkKnightAug 26, 20163 votes

A lot of champions are immobile. It's really hard to break the tether as a champion with no dash if you are alone.

Suppose you are playing a spit push juggernaut like Illaoi or something. You push top and kill your lane opponent because you are a boss. Then nocturne ults you and you almost kill him in the 2 second tether but he gets the fear off. There is a decent chance that you might die to a 2.5 second fear, but you might have been able to get off another W and heal with a 2 second fear.

Also it's a 50% increase in duration early game, and that's pretty huge for ganks.

I don't see how you deserve to die for being near a champion with huge range targeted dash for 2 seconds. He can spell shield your CC and outrun you with the speed buff from Q if you try to run. If you flash away when he casts E he can flash towards you within .25 seconds and tether won't break.

To be clear I'm not saying nocturne is OP or has no counterplay, just that some champions struggle to avoid the fear, and the duration does mattter. I guarantee if he had a 4 second fear he would be OP as fuck.

Supreme Senpai69Aug 26, 20164 votes

Whenever I play Nocturne I find the opposite to be true, most champions in this game are way too mobile. It's hard getting the E off. I'd rather it be easier to get off than duration being longer honestly.

WoonStruckAug 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

A lot of champions are immobile. It's really hard to break the tether as a champion with no dash if you are alone.

Suppose you are playing a spit push juggernaut like Illaoi or something. You push top and kill your lane opponent because you are a boss. Then nocturne ults you and you almost kill him in the 2 second tether but he gets the fear off. There is a decent chance that you might die to a 2.5 second fear, but you might have been able to get off another W and heal with a 2 second fear.

So you're saying that, under no circumstances, Nocturne should not be able to kill you as Illaoi after you waste your CDs. I see.

Very logical argument.

RisenDarkKnightAug 26, 20162 votes

I didn't say any of those things you're either being facetious or didn't understand anything I said.

WoonStruckAug 26, 20161 votes

You're basically implying that Illaoi should not die if Nocturne ganks her.

Giving an example of an increase in power is not an excuse for withholding buffs for a champion because THAT'S THE INTENTION OF THE PROPOSED BUFF IN THE FIRST PLACE.

.5 seconds being added onto one of the least reliable CCs (considering range, tether time, and max tether range) in the game is by no means out of line.

Nocturne being unable to kill an Illaoi that just finished a top-lane skirmish to the death is a perfect example of why Nocturne SHOULD get this buff.

Your argument is counter-intuitive.

RisenDarkKnightAug 26, 20162 votes

I didn't imply anything of the sort. I just said that the .5 second fear increase could allow nocturne to win duels he wouldn't have before. Illaoi was a random hypothetical example, I don't know who wins that duel and I imagine it depends a lot on what items they have and what level they are.

I'm not saying we need to withhold all nocturne buffs, I was just refuting your earlier point that the fear duration increase doesn't matter because all champions either can't break the fear or die in the tether + fear duration. Many juggernauts like Illaoi can't break the tether without flash advantage and are tanky enough to survive 2 second tether+ 2 second fear (or less with merc treads).

I do think going from a 1 second fear at rank 1 to a 1.5 second fear will make a huge difference in his early gank power which will probably be a major buff. The OP and I think it's too big a buff since Nocturne seems relatively balanced to me but maybe due for a small buff. That's why I suggested going halfway on the fear buff.

WoonStruckAug 26, 20162 votes

Allowing Nocturne to win duels is the point.

Originally, when he was strong but balanced post-release, his entire niche was the ability to ult someone, land Q, and chase them down until they were dead, since he could avoid CC via W.

Nocturne can no longer do that, so it makes sense to reward him more for actually landing the full tether on his E when the game is filled with so much more CC and mobility now that its neigh impossible to get your E off unless they decide to stay in range of it.

It deserves buffs at ALL stages, not just early game.

Nocturne will probably get a re-imagining at some point.

If he's ever competitively viable currently, its as a tank for his ult and E, combined with his automatically decent damage due to Q and W. That's no better than any other fighter.

Serika ZeroAug 26, 20163 votes

so what should everyone else except nocturne do? hug the pillow and grey screen because they didn't have 2+ rashes to go faster than nocturne on shadow trail + phage movement speed?

To be fair, his R is point and click. There's no conterplay to that. And to be fair, his R steals the enemy vision. There's no counterplay to that. His R also puts him in melee range, making his Q counterplay-able only by a select few champions that build zhonias or have untargetability.

And all of that is point and click with no counterplay available. Barring Morgana <3 So, is there any point why everyone else except Morgana players should die the moment noct presses R?

Look, from Nocture player point of view. This is fair. But what about from the other's player pov? Do they feel powerless? Do they feel outplayed? Do they feel strong? Do they feel like they stand a chance?

This is a trend recently with riot. Yasou - fun to play as. AWFUL TO PLAY AGAINST Kalista - fun to play as. AWFUL TO PLAY AGAINST, to the point she became Yorik of bot lane (nerfed so hard she barely sees play). like wise for Azir Ekko - tons of cc, tons of escapes. Yeh, that must feel good to fight vs.

Pierce The VealAug 26, 20167 votes

Wait what?!

We're complaining about a 2 second tether with a range shorter than flash. You need to wait two seconds, and not be peeled, in order to successfully get the fear off.

Other than people who have 125+ games with him, no one else has any success with him. Even the people who only play him only get ~54% winrate, and the overall average winrate is 48%, indicating that he is balanced if not a little weak.

And now we're here complaining about adding 0.5 seconds more fear to arguably the least rewarding 2 second wait in the game.

ShifuneAug 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Other than people who have 125+ games with him, no one else has any success with him.

I disagree

Pierce The VealAug 26, 20165 votes

{quoted}

I disagree

You can disagree with http://champion.gg/champion/Nocturne ? This is a major dilemma of today. Opinions are worth just as much as facts when it comes to free speech. I can give pure statistics from the best players, and people think disagreeing with facts somehow makes them less factual.

ShifuneAug 26, 20161 votes

I can disagree actually. You specifically said no one, which is an absolute. So unless you can prove that every single person that has less than 125 games on Nocturne has no success with him, your statement is incorrect.

You can't use absolutes when you are referencing averages because of outliers. Anyone with a basic knowledge of statistics knows that.

Also, when did I disagree with facts? The part that I referenced from your original comment was not a fact considering that the statement itself was false. I never disagreed with his winrate percentages which were the only facts in your comment.

So next time, save the corny joke/insult for when you actually know what you're talking about.

Pierce The VealAug 26, 20162 votes

I have no words to say to you.

It is quite clear what I was saying. Using absolutes is indeed not absolutely accurate, however it is important to note that presentation is a large part of everything. And statistically speaking, outliers can be excluded, thus it is fair to say that people who have less than 125 games with him aren't successful, as those who are successful are exceptions for one reason or another. They're exactly that, exceptions; they don't contribute to the norm.

Anyway, it is true that you can disagree. Heck, for all we care, you could disagree that gravity exists, that doesn't make gravity any less existent.

However you have already given up on legitimite discourse by initiating resorting to ad hominem. Nice speaking to you though.

specter424Aug 25, 20166 votes

It is interesting but I don't think it will solve the problem. What is his problem? Well even if you have a 2.5 second fear its still a 2 second tether and there are plenty of ways to break it. He has mana problems and his cooldowns are really long early on. You also max it second so by the time you get the full 2.5 seconds, when you are diving the adc, the ward bitch is just going to stop you.

AwhegarkAug 25, 20161 votes

After this buff you could max it first and might be a better alternative.

Tyto MorsAug 26, 20162 votes

I wouldn't think so. Nocturnes q does a lot for him, damage to all targets in a straight line, allows him to stick to a target by ignoring unit collision and gives him bonus ad while on the trail.

AdriqnoheeAug 26, 20162 votes

Lets not forget the bonus move speed.

jinxedchefAug 26, 20163 votes

Nocturne's problem is that every new champ has a dash that outranges his E. Plus when Riot changed fear it hurt him bad. Plus he needs an escape(like every other assassin) or he just jumps into the fight and dies.

WolfChasesAug 26, 20163 votes

Exactly. Idk why people always adress immobile champions when Riot is buffing some sort of CC while wast majority of people actually play mobile champions lol....look at them Ahri Caitlyn Ekko Fiora Fizz Gnar Hecarim Graves Jax Kassadin Khazix Kled LeeSin Lucian Nidalee Riven Shen Vayne Vladimir Yasuo Zed Elise Leblanc Ezreal lol....rvery single one can fuck up Nocturne E with ease. There are only a few of popular champions that could have a problems if their Flash is on a cd and those are: Ashe Illaoi Irelia Jhin Jinx Lux lol..

GrReaper96Aug 25, 20165 votes

item 3070 Fiddlesticks

FantasySniperAug 26, 20165 votes

Maybe. This isn't too bad in the grand scheme of things, as it would only reward Nocturnes that can stick for the fear. This would be a welcome buff since it makes him more effective when his ult is on CD.

I would much rather his passive gets a buff/tweak/makeover, though.

Pierce The VealAug 26, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Maybe. This isn't too bad in the grand scheme of things, as it would only reward Nocturnes that can stick for the fear. This would be a welcome buff since it makes him more effective when his ult is on CD.

I would much rather his passive gets a buff/tweak/makeover.

Exactly this.

Nocturne was already barely rewarded for his tether. For a squishy duelist, it is really hard to wait 2 seconds.

FantasySniperAug 26, 20164 votes

Especially against some champions like Lee or Yasuo who have so much mobility and sustained damage that even experienced Noc players find them frustrating.

Pierce The VealAug 26, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Especially against some champions like Lee or Yasuo who have so much mobility and sustained damage that even experienced Noc players find them frustrating.

Don't get me started on Yasuo and Lee.

D357R0Y3RAug 25, 20164 votes

if you get caught into his fear now and nocturne is full build,

Good bye

Pierce The VealAug 26, 20167 votes

{quoted}

if you get caught into his fear now and nocturne is full build,

Good bye

That's already how it worked.

Though, the full build nocturne would probably kill you before the two second tether actually applied.

The tether was already one of the least rewarding skills in the game, I don't know why people are suddenly freaking out about it being buffed. I guarantee that it won't make much of any difference to nocturne.

AhristocatsAug 26, 20164 votes

i mean if you're full glass canon noc, yes. But the way people builds him now is different. Season 1 noc was built like trynd, season 2 was built with atma, now it's youmu into titanic hydra+ full bruiser, and this build doesn't kill you in 2 seconds.

Pierce The VealAug 26, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=el0Qmu0V,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-26T01:37:27.569+0000)

i mean if you're full glass canon noc, yes. But the way people builds him now is different. Season 1 noc was built like trynd, season 2 was built with atma, now it's youmu into titanic hydra+ full bruiser, and this build doesn't kill you in 2 seconds.

Even when he goes tanky he'll be squishier than anyone else who builds like he does.

But here's the deal, if you look at the stats on champion.gg, you'll see that the way to play him isn't at all what you think. The most played has a deadman's and then all damage, and the highest winrate has a GA and then all damage. The best way to play Nocturne is thus, all damage, or 4 damage items with a single defensive item. Titanic Hydra is also horrible on him, Ravenous is the only way to go.

Do trust me, however, that the build you suggest would still kill people extremely fast, and perhaps would still be capable of taking down an adc in 2 seconds.

FazorAug 26, 20162 votes

I agree. I main Noc and play him more than any other champ. When i build him i go yhommus, ravenous hydra, deadmans, and banshees for mid lane. And if i am jungling i go yhommus, deadmans, banshees and whatever else will help me against the enemy team. i don't like other builds since they provide little damage and since noc has no strong/reliable cc its hard for him to front line. Tbh i like these fear buffs because it still has a delay and therefore has outplay. As for adc's being affected by it, i don't think it will do much. You still have a team to protect the adc and noc's teamfight is one of the worst as an assassin if you jump in at the wrong time.

Pierce The VealAug 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I agree. I main Noc and play him more than any other champ. When i build him i go yhommus, ravenous hydra, deadmans, and banshees for mid lane. And if i am jungling i go yhommus, deadmans, banshees and whatever else will help me against the enemy team. i don't like other builds since they provide little damage and since noc has no strong/reliable cc its hard for him to front line. Tbh i like these fear buffs because it still has a delay and therefore has outplay. As for adc's being affected by it, i don't think it will do much. You still have a team to protect the adc and noc's teamfight is one of the worst as an assassin if you jump in at the wrong time.

In the 2 seconds it takes for the fear to proc, odds are either you are dead or the squishy target is dead. The fear is just assurance late game.

Nocturne was my first champion, and I'd basically played nothing but him for over a season back in season 2. I've played him in every lane. There is no feasible way a 0.5 second increase to his cc will break him

FazorAug 27, 20161 votes

Exactly! Your fear only comes in handy when the target is running away or you need to run away. 0.5 seconds in no way will break him. In fact, it will help him clear the jungle a bit better and his ganks will be far greater pre six.

Pierce The VealAug 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Exactly! Your fear only comes in handy when the target is running away or you need to run away. 0.5 seconds in no way will break him. In fact, it will help him clear the jungle a bit better and his ganks will be far greater pre six.

Exactly.

That and my laneturne is gonna be a lot more fun ;P

FazorAug 28, 20162 votes

^ this guy knows whats up

IS3E531E3F964391Aug 26, 20162 votes

{quoted}

if you get caught into his fear now and nocturne is full build,

Good bye

still doesn't seem as bad as irelia's stun, irelia her stun is instant, has a 3 second shorter cooldown and the target doesn't keep walking away from you, I've never died in the duration of nocturne his fear, I have however died in the duration of irelia her stun.

VeltoxAug 25, 20164 votes

Its fine imo considering the big delay before he actually applies it.

invisiblecat1Aug 25, 20163 votes

I honestly think this is a terrible idea, especially on an assassin. He does not need point and click cc that is only countered by leaving his range. If you jump in noturne will E you and 2 seconds and quite a sizeable amount, so making it almost as long as a skillful snare (which has some hitbox issues) is just too strong, so I think lower the cc, but amp the damage on Q and passive

jinxedchefAug 26, 20167 votes

TWO SECOND CAST TIME!!! The range is pitiful so you can just flash or jump out,(everyone has a dash now). And it is a fear, so you still are walking away from him, it isn't even a stun.