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Playing Vladimir feels awful.

option paralysis··71 votes·6,265 views

His normal q does nothing, especially if the target has any kind of mr. 3rd q has some dmg and heal but in lane they just walk away every time. I just get the feeling I'm using normal q's to get the 3rd one and even if I somehow get it off, there's just the feeling - oh they didn't walk away this time, aaaand you're back to 40 hp healing q's, oh boy! I hate the new E also, I loved wave clearing on old Vlad. It was one of the best feelings when you hit the big wave with 4 stacks and insta cleared it. Now, I lose like 30% hp and time trying to get into the middle to clear it all. Also, in lane you can stand behind minions or just walk away and you don't get hit. Slow on E is useless, you build rylais anyway, however now you can slow yourself too! And on his blood lord/soulstealer skin I almost can't see the q animation at all. Before you could see the "life drip away" from them. But yeah, with all this stuff that feels awkward and awful to play, they buff his crimson rush healing and heal on ult...

101 Comments

WitchQueen Annie25 votes

This whole ''rework''

Let's focus on meeting the demands of Vladimir's opponents in adding more counterplay against his kit (and let's do it to the point where he can't land more than half his damage when it counts)

Let's not care about whether or not it would still be fun or viable to keep playing Vlad

Zed's skins will keep selling anyways

Cynika16 votes

Agreed. I'm pretty convinced this rework was focused on riot's idea of "Is this champion fun to play against?" at the expense of the health of actual Vladimir.

ZT Xperimentor26 votes

They should use that mentality when designing assassins, not mages.

Troll for Trump3 votes

I can't think of a single assassin that's "fun" to play against without being fun to play as; It's one or the other.

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

I concur, and would say a few champions from other classes play like assassins; from a combination of burst, speed, & mechanics frustrating to deal with. Diana Fiora Kalista Kindred LeeSin Lucian Quinn Udyr XinZhao Yasuo

Baron of Bread5 votes

They should always use that mentality. They may have gone a bit overboard with Vlad though.

dragon1xx4 votes

I feel like the Will of the Ancients was really good in niche builds, and I really don't see the harm in keeping it.

SKT T1 Maddog985 votes

"Zed skins will keep selling"

That moment when Zed only has two skins.

Feindbild5 votes

He's got 3. Shockblade, SKT, and Project.

SKT T1 Maddog983 votes

Oh ya forgot the SKT skin was a thing due to it being a legacy skin.

WitchQueen Annie17 votes

yeah they totally ruined the fun in playing Vladimir...

Riot doesn't understand Vlad, or Vlad players. The direction of their buffs further demonstrate this...

6.9 hot fix - let's increase E's damage (even though the damage was never the problem, landing the highly telegraphed and easily counter played attack was)

6.10 fix - let's increase the heal on the Ultimate (even though no one cared about the healing on the Ult to begin with and the problem really lies with the bread and butter Qs and Es)

Cynika9 votes

{quoted} Riot doesn't understand Vlad, or Vlad players. The direction of their buffs further demonstrate this...

This 100%. Watching their play testers live stream confirmed this fact for me.

Riot really needs to have a meaningful discussion with vlad players soon or he will be over buffed in future patches, then nerfed to hell, then forgotten (maybe it skips the over buffed).

Fenikkusu13 votes

Probably won't happen, everyone at Riot is a Zed main.

dasmaschine2314 votes

His kit really isn't high skill at this point, its high LUCK. You have to get lucky enough to get another player/team that is very inexperienced. Q is a joke, his sustain from q alone is less than half what it was if you consider having to burn 2 CDs first and then a charge to get a decent heal. thats about 9-10 seconds at full build to get what he used to restore in 3.

That is also assuming you can land it on a champ instead of having to blow it on a minion. The health to ap scaling nerf also hurt, coupled with the lowered AP on most of his 'core' items. Thats a silent double nerf. The ap to health is still bad and always was, particularly for a champ thats supposed to be burning 10% health on a high damage attack, easily dodged and that he can't restore but MAYBE every 10 seconds.

This rework makes me wonder if someone just flew into a rage laning against a decent vlad and said 'we need a rework'.

People are dodging games or banning vlad from their own team now.

Cynika5 votes

{quoted} People are dodging games or banning vlad from their own team now.

So I'm not the only one to have this happen to them :/

Zuil13 votes

They removed his sustain in health and damage and replaced it with procs and longer CDs. He does no damage unless everything is perfect (no one focuses him, Q is proc'd, lots of AP, no MR) He's trash tier IMO.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

so far the only thing that hurts in his kit is his E. it does do a lot of damage but the rest is meh. they shoulda put more emphasis on the ultimate at least you know.

Zuil9 votes

No, his ultimate is fine, it's his Q and E that suck right now.

MunchCrunchLunch4 votes

idk why they reduced the damage amp though. his pool never did that much damage. though his old Q hurt a little much if you ask me

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

idk why they reduced the damage amp though. his pool never did that much damage. though his old Q hurt a little much if you ask me

They reduced the damage amp cos Vlad players told them to. They wanted more power elsewhere. Which I guess went from the Spell Vamp on his ult going from 5+% (depending on E stacks) to 50-100% (depending on how many people hit).

Blackstone017 votes

Problem is the power didn't really go anywhere, it was a net nerf bat, basically everything got a nerf.

Borsalino10 votes

Give me back old Vladmir.

BlazeBlaster9 votes

I don't understand who felt that an ability that deals 10% max hp true damage to yourself in order to deal 10% max hp magic damage to the opponent? Riot clearly needs to change his ultimate and his Q but they refuse to change what they consider vladimir's defining feature, his point and click sustain, so they simply nerf it into the ground. His base damages are the same as kassadin, except kassadin has insane mobility and an extra damaging skill (W) as well as doesn't kill himself casting spells.. This entire mage rework was a failure, and the new kit designs are terrible on the majority of the mages.

ZT Xperimentor4 votes

And most of it was pointed out in bpe, yet riot ignored all the warnings . . . again. Then fans wonder why riot stopped posting how many players they have.

All In Forms7 votes

I get the problem they had with old Vlad, if he was ahead (or even not in certain matchups). You could feel pretty helpless against him. But I agree that he doesn't feel good anymore.

GigaPube6 votes

they added a slow to his E and they think he'll be fine now......NO YOU JUST MADE HIM LESS SYNERGISTIC WITH RYLAIS.....

Xela Syab6 votes

if you are british, you could say he feels bloody awful.

Blood Magicks5 votes

I'm going to defend this rework to the very end, because if it wasn't for it,

  1. My fun reserves would be so much lower.

2)This wouldn't have happened to my elo from when 6.9 hit onwards:

http://i.imgur.com/j3d8ImG.png

git gud people

Yes, the straight upwards one consists of nothing but Vlad, Taric (with the bloodstone skin so I can pretend I'm playing Vlad anyway) and the occassional Karma for when Vlad is ban.

xl Kirito lx2 votes

Kind of disappointed about lack of Vayne playing.

I have to agree though. People don't know how to play the new Vlad, and until something meta hits, people will complain. It's funny. Half the people I meet don't think that Vladimir can E-W. Or don't respect how abusive he is in lane now.

Cynika4 votes

I've had success with vlad, that doesn't make him feel any less awful to play.

I'm well aware that vlad can use his abilities while charging e, that doesn't make him feel any less awful to play.

And the only time vlad is abusive in lane is if your opponent is terrible. They should be trading back damage (especially early, or depending on matchup) or completely dodging your significant damage, which this rework made incredibly easy to do.

YoungFarmer4 votes

[{quoted}](name=VaynexVlad OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ejxzqL7J,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-05-19T00:38:15.862+0000)

I'm going to defend this rework to the very end, because if it wasn't for it,

  1. My fun reserves would be so much lower.

2)This wouldn't have happened to my elo from when 6.9 hit onwards:

http://i.imgur.com/j3d8ImG.png

git gud people

Yes, the straight upwards one consists of nothing but Vlad, Taric (with the bloodstone skin so I can pretend I'm playing Vlad anyway) and the occassional Karma for when Vlad is ban.

How much did the Elo boost cost?

Blood Magicks1 votes

I just instalocked Vlad mid/top and cheesed people lol.

WitchQueen Annie5 votes

[{quoted}](name=VaynexVlad OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ejxzqL7J,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2016-05-19T15:16:04.196+0000)

I just instalocked Vlad mid/top and cheesed people lol.

You can cheese them hard if you walk into the lane with Boots of Speed in low elo.

At a higher elo, you just sit back and farm (you can't do anything too violent now since your windows of opportunity are so obvious). You'll still piss them off though with your continuous sustain. And once you get a Spirit Visage/Dead Man Plate you won't die in the lane. Its very troll.

The only issue is actually team fighting with the dude...

MrSlowDie5 votes

His Q is now feels so clunky, and it doesn't feel satisfying to land at all.

Vistha Kai4 votes

So far every Vlad I played aganist went 0/5+ in lane and before became worth more than a minion for his team, the match was over.

Honestly, I don't think, I play a champion, that could have problems aganist him. I mean, maaaaybe Diana pre-6, but that's about it.

Snow Blooded4 votes

Can we please just get old Vladimir back? I really miss him, especially because I mained him...

option paralysis3 votes

So, some say he's useless, some say he's OP. That's exactly the same state he was in before the rework. What did the rework do then ? It only made him clunkier to play and he's OP if you don't walk away from him. It doesn't look like he's gonna get his kit changed again, just some numbers. I won't build him tank, because that means the rework is trash.

ComatosePhoenix2 votes

Having to change your build makes a rework trash? Sorry, that I just can't agree with.

option paralysis6 votes

{quoted}

Having to change your build makes a rework trash? Sorry, that I just can't agree with.

No, but changing it to build tank, it makes it trash, yeah. Because you can build tank on almost every champ and do good, that just means what he's intended to build (AP) is not good and building tank you're just making a champ work like it shouldn't have. FFS, I saw valkrin playing tank talon and leblanc and do good, because you can build tank on everything nowadays. Does that mean you're gonna play tank leblanc ? No, because building her AP actually works too and it's better. From a mage to "go straight tank" build on Vlad, yeah, I'd say his rework failed.

ComatosePhoenix2 votes

What the heck are you building? Full ap? You have a champion with a max health scaling ability. Use it.

dasmaschine234 votes

{quoted}

What the heck are you building? Full ap? You have a champion with a max health scaling ability. Use it.

My prerework vlad builds used to be hybrid AP/Health primarily. Almost never went SV because that left him weak offensively and frankly was usually only useful situationally. The fact that we're being forced to try to pick up situational items as core should be an indicator of the brokeness.

Good vlad players prior to this were constantly on the offensive and that was their defense, restoring health as they went.

The health scaling to AP on him was never strong, nor does it make him inherently tanky. 5k health = what 200 AP? Again this patch was a flat nerf across the board. Building 'tank' items is simply just to allow some fudginess in his clunky kit.

Health Scaling for 'e' is silly as well since it does just as much damage to yourself and you can't mitigate the self inflicted health damage. However, your opponents CAN mitigate it leading to some really really bad trades. You also can't easily recover it now because 2 out of every 3 Qs does nothing worth mentioning and the CR buff burns down so fast.

If the new strat is mass health and use swifties to get an occasional poke, ask yourself how many other champs can do that better without even itemizing. His kit is broken.

ComatosePhoenix1 votes

As long as you land the empowered q its only every other cast.

Even if E does deal just as much damage to yourself 10% of your health bar can easily be 40-50% of your opponents.

I dont think straight tank is that strong. Visage is the only item you really want for its passive but warmogs can be pretty fun too. Other than that rylais liandries and protobelt give a nice mix of ap and hp.

Cynika2 votes

I may just be weird, but I pretty much go full AP minus SV. My full build these days is rylai's, SV, zhonya's, deathcap, void staff, boots.

I just always feel like the most useless thing on the planet if I go full tank. And with a lot of AP your q/ult actually does something other than proc'ing rylai's/heal. You still end up with ~3.5k health and decent resists.

dasmaschine233 votes

{quoted}

No, but changing it to build tank, it makes it trash, yeah. Because you can build tank on almost every champ and do good, that just means what he's intended to build (AP) is not good and building tank you're just making a champ work like it shouldn't have. FFS, I saw valkrin playing tank talon and leblanc and do good, because you can build tank on everything nowadays. Does that mean you're gonna play tank leblanc ? No, because building her AP actually works too and it's better. From a mage to "go straight tank" build on Vlad, yeah, I'd say his rework failed.

This. Being forced to.play him tanky is just a way of hiding bad mechanics. He's still a mage an it just so happens that tank itemization is very strong atm so it tends to mask weakness in play and a Champs kit.

Consider for a moment that not one thing in his kit offers tanking. He has no peel or inherent damage mitigation. His passive scaling provides only a small amount of AP for health and even less health for ap. And frankly the added health is just burned by his e anyway.

Tank vlad is strictly itemization compensating for a bad kit.

Big Daddy Husk3 votes

Just going to put this out there, Vladimir right now is going to be the new Graves. When people start building him right, he is going to dominate games. Most games I play as him now my full build has around 5300 health, and I always deal and take the most damage out of both teams. Also will be like the new Graves because tank/bruiser build is much better than a more traditional build right now.

CasterGilgamesh6 votes

i dont believe you item 3153 item 3033 should be enough to shut you down

ßøss3 votes

#Bring back WOTA and old Vlad

SnowFall3 votes

oh and guess what, item 3143 works against his empowered Q now, really great Rito

MasqureMan1 votes

{quoted}

His normal q does nothing, especially if the target has any kind of mr. 3rd q has some dmg and heal but in lane they just walk away every time. I just get the feeling I'm using normal q's to get the 3rd one and even if I somehow get it off, there's just the feeling - oh they didn't walk away this time, aaaand you're back to 40 hp healing q's, oh boy! I hate the new E also, I loved wave clearing on old Vlad. It was one of the best feelings when you hit the big wave with 4 stacks and insta cleared it. Now, I lose like 30% hp and time trying to get into the middle to clear it all. Also, in lane you can stand behind minions or just walk away and you don't get hit. Slow on E is useless, you build rylais anyway, however now you can slow yourself too! And on his blood lord/soulstealer skin I almost can't see the q animation at all. Before you could see the "life drip away" from them. But yeah, with all this stuff that feels awkward and awful to play, they buff his crimson rush healing and heal on ult...

Every time I crush people in lane with him, they say he's op. Forums say he's awful. I'm just gonna keep living in my fantasy world where I'm the only good vlad and hope for the best

WitchQueen Annie3 votes

{quoted}

Every time I crush people in lane with him, they say he's op. Forums say he's awful. I'm just gonna keep living in my fantasy world where I'm the only good vlad and hope for the best

well at low elo I can still stomp people in lane with the new Vlad...

I just can't team fight with him anymore, not without losing 33% of my old damage output; its too hard to poke with his new kit (you're mostly hitting unempowered Qs and your E isn't very useful in poking). In hard engages, its too easy for their tanks to block most of your E's damage...

It used to be enough to dance around on the outskirts of the fight like an AP variation of an ADC and just keep hitting those Qs and Es while occasionally Ulting or pooling back...

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